Outreach to Atheists

[SupernovaK]

First off, I have to apologize for throwing this item in "the kitchen sink". It ought to be in "Outreach", specifically in Debating Other Faiths, but for some reason people of other faiths have "insufficient privileges" to post there. That doesn't make sense... is debate about other religions supposed to only take place between Christians? How do you expect to get a legitimate perspective and argument from the non-Christian side?

Anyways, I'm an atheist. I've posted to atheist forums before, but that strikes me as rather pointless. A forum dominated with atheists is a place to preach to the choir and that's all. I genuinely think my point-of-view, that there is insufficient evidence for the existence of a god (yours or anyone else's), is the correct one and because of that I feel pretty confident debating that point with people who don't agree with me.

So why are Christians here? Shouldn't you be dominating the threads of other forums, trying to evangelize? Your bible commands you to do so, and most of you (I imagine) feel as confident in your beliefs, so why aren't you testing them on people who disagree with you rather than people who won't try to poke holes in your arguments?

It seems silly that most avenues for speaking to atheists even on this very site have been closed down, and if you've checked out other Christian forums, you'll find that they're even less inviting to outside points-of-view. Didn't Jesus explain that he sat with "sinners" because they were the very people that he had been sent to speak with? (Matthew 9:10-13) So why are there so few of you on atheist forums, not a single one of which excludes believers?

 

[Favourofone]

How do you expect to get a legitimate perspective and argument from the non-Christian side?

If forums are restricted clearly they are not expecting that.

 

[DennisTate]

First off, I have to apologize for throwing this item in "the kitchen sink". It ought to be in "Outreach", specifically in Debating Other Faiths, but for some reason people of other faiths have "insufficient privileges" to post there. That doesn't make sense... is debate about other religions supposed to only take place between Christians? How do you expect to get a legitimate perspective and argument from the non-Christian side?

Anyways, I'm an atheist. I've posted to atheist forums before, but that strikes me as rather pointless. A forum dominated with atheists is a place to preach to the choir and that's all. I genuinely think my point-of-view, that there is insufficient evidence for the existence of a god (yours or anyone else's), is the correct one and because of that I feel pretty confident debating that point with people who don't agree with me.

So why are Christians here? Shouldn't you be dominating the threads of other forums, trying to evangelize? Your bible commands you to do so, and most of you (I imagine) feel as confident in your beliefs, so why aren't you testing them on people who disagree with you rather than people who won't try to poke holes in your arguments?

It seems silly that most avenues for speaking to atheists even on this very site have been closed down, and if you've checked out other Christian forums, you'll find that they're even less inviting to outside points-of-view. Didn't Jesus explain that he sat with "sinners" because they were the very people that he had been sent to speak with? (Matthew 9:10-13) So why are there so few of you on atheist forums, not a single one of which excludes believers?

You may enjoy this discussion over in the Science Forum here:

I have nominated Dr. Chaim Tejman for the one million dollar origin of life prize.


Where did Intelligence begin, in matter or fundamental energy?

I guess you could term this my outreach to Atheists and Agnostics...........

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

First off, I have to apologize for throwing this item in "the kitchen sink". It ought to be in "Outreach", specifically in Debating Other Faiths, but for some reason people of other faiths have "insufficient privileges" to post there. That doesn't make sense... is debate about other religions supposed to only take place between Christians? How do you expect to get a legitimate perspective and argument from the non-Christian side?

You make a pretty valid point and you are in the right place in this particular forum to make them. There are Christian-only forums designed for discussions among Christians so they can share views within the Christian framework. There are Christians who come on this forum to share their views with other Christians, and they don't want to enter into discussions with people outside of that framework; and they don't have to actually. So, the Christian-only forums are there to "insulate" believers so that they are free to discuss within themselves and not be forced to deal with issues that are often off the particular topic of the OP.

Any club organisation is the same. Club members associate together with like-minded folk. Someone coming in from outside and bringing up issues that are contrary to the club's principles would be seen as a bad mannered interloper and be ask to leave. So if that happens in any normal organisation, why shouldn't it happen here. Or is a Christian forum site open slather for any person to interject into discussions that are reserved for Christians only?

Anyways, I'm an atheist. I've posted to atheist forums before, but that strikes me as rather pointless. A forum dominated with atheists is a place to preach to the choir and that's all. I genuinely think my point-of-view, that there is insufficient evidence for the existence of a god (yours or anyone else's), is the correct one and because of that I feel pretty confident debating that point with people who don't agree with me.

Further to my previous remark, I know that anyone who goes on an Atheist forum is treated in very nasty and abusive ways if they start discussing stuff that is contrary to the Atheistic view. If a Christian tried to discuss Christianity in the same way that some Atheists discuss their views on this Christian forum, they would be unceremoniously thrown off the Atheistic forum, so let's not be hypocritical here.

Having said that, there are places on this forum where discussions between Christians and Atheists can take place. I think that this forum is one, and there are others where those who enjoy such discussions can participate. But not all Christians can be bothered with discussions with Atheists, and that is okay too.

So why are Christians here? Shouldn't you be dominating the threads of other forums, trying to evangelize? Your bible commands you to do so, and most of you (I imagine) feel as confident in your beliefs, so why aren't you testing them on people who disagree with you rather than people who won't try to poke holes in your arguments?

It is because there are different reasons why Christians come on this forum. Many come to fellowship with and to encourage other Christians. They don't want to evangelize. Maybe they think that on line evangelism is not very effective and they prefer face-to-face discussion.

So, how many have tried to evangelize you on line? Have they got anywhere? No? then Q.E.D.

It seems silly that most avenues for speaking to atheists even on this very site have been closed down, and if you've checked out other Christian forums, you'll find that they're even less inviting to outside points-of-view. Didn't Jesus explain that he sat with "sinners" because they were the very people that he had been sent to speak with? (Matthew 9:10-13) So why are there so few of you on atheist forums, not a single one of which excludes believers?

The reason why avenues have been closed down is because the specialised forum has been so misused that the point for existing is lost. All the good and reasonable ones have avoided it, leaving the nasty, argumentative and abusive ones to dominate it. That is the main reason.

It seems to me that the Outreach forums are there for Christians to share their faith. They are not designed as debating forums. People of different faiths are welcome to read the contributions and come to their own conclusions. Actually anyone can read anything on any forum, but not all have the freedom to put posts on some.

Not all Christian believers have the knowledge, experience or confidence to enter into the cut and thrust of debates with Atheists. They would not join CF if they did not have areas where they could share their views and opinions and ask for help on issues, without having to contend with issues that they are not prepared for.

But seasoned, mature, combat-hardened ones like me, don't have those problems, so bring it on!

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

The downfalls of being a new creation sadly

 

[ActivatedAlmond]

First off, I have to apologize for throwing this item in "the kitchen sink". It ought to be in "Outreach", specifically in Debating Other Faiths, but for some reason people of other faiths have "insufficient privileges" to post there. That doesn't make sense... is debate about other religions supposed to only take place between Christians? How do you expect to get a legitimate perspective and argument from the non-Christian side?

Anyways, I'm an atheist. I've posted to atheist forums before, but that strikes me as rather pointless. A forum dominated with atheists is a place to preach to the choir and that's all. I genuinely think my point-of-view, that there is insufficient evidence for the existence of a god (yours or anyone else's), is the correct one and because of that I feel pretty confident debating that point with people who don't agree with me.

So why are Christians here? Shouldn't you be dominating the threads of other forums, trying to evangelize? Your bible commands you to do so, and most of you (I imagine) feel as confident in your beliefs, so why aren't you testing them on people who disagree with you rather than people who won't try to poke holes in your arguments?

It seems silly that most avenues for speaking to atheists even on this very site have been closed down, and if you've checked out other Christian forums, you'll find that they're even less inviting to outside points-of-view. Didn't Jesus explain that he sat with "sinners" because they were the very people that he had been sent to speak with? (Matthew 9:10-13) So why are there so few of you on atheist forums, not a single one of which excludes believers?

I basically spent the first 21 years of my life as an atheist, so I think I have a pretty firm grasp of a "legitimate perspective and argument from the non-Christian side."

I personally don't see what's wrong with discussing your beliefs with like minded people, whether you be an atheist or Christian. I don't think there's often much to be gained from debating Atheists online since the ones who spend their time trying to "poke holes" in Christianity are as close minded and fervent in their beliefs as anyone. You're obviously also not going to get a very good in depth discussion on the finer points and intricacies of Christianity with someone who finds the whole thing to be false. And trust me, I've spent hours and hours debating Atheists online (not specifically on Atheist forums but on the internet in general) and still do sometimes, usually without any sign that anything is sinking in. As someone who spent much of their life as an atheist and even went to church as an atheist, nothing really sunk in until I went through my own experiences in life that led me to God when the time is right. It's your life, if you genuinely want to know God you'll learn to do so. If you want to keep believing that all of the matter in the universe somehow created itself from nothing without a God-like figure then go ahead. It's your life

 

[Charlie24]

I've been thrown out of 4 atheist sites. My opening post always presented a crucified Saviour redeeming mankind from their sins.

Then the questions begin pouring in, rude a vulgar as possible. I keep my cool and answer all the questions, most concerning the long list of bible contradictions they have accumulated through ignorance of scripture.

After a few days when they can't the best of you, one here and one there want to hear more about why God does this or that, how did sin enter the world, what is it that God wants from me, etc. That's when the door is slammed in your face.

Just before I was banned on the last site, a man sent me a personal message from the site saying the things he had done in his life would never be forgiven by God, no way He could love me the way you say. I replied with scriptural proof that God did love him and would save him. I followed the Roman Road to salvation with the man and hope he accepted Christ.

The next morning the banned email was in my box.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I've been thrown out of 4 atheist sites. My opening post always presented a crucified Saviour redeeming mankind from their sins.

Then the questions begin pouring in, rude a vulgar as possible. I keep my cool and answer all the questions, most concerning the long list of bible contradictions they have accumulated through ignorance of scripture.

After a few days when they can't the best of you, one here and one there want to hear more about why God does this or that, how did sin enter the world, what is it that God wants from me, etc. That's when the door is slammed in your face.

Just before I was banned on the last site, a man sent me a personal message from the site saying the things he had done in his life would never be forgiven by God, no way He could love me the way you say. I replied with scriptural proof that God did love him and would save him. I followed the Roman Road to salvation with the man and hope he accepted Christ.

The next morning the banned email was in my box.

That's the difference. No Atheist would be treated like that on CF.

 

[SupernovaK]

I basically spent the first 21 years of my life as an atheist, so I think I have a pretty firm grasp of a "legitimate perspective and argument from the non-Christian side."

I personally don't see what's wrong with discussing your beliefs with like minded people, whether you be an atheist or Christian. I don't think there's often much to be gained from debating Atheists online since the ones who spend their time trying to "poke holes" in Christianity are as close minded and fervent in their beliefs as anyone. You're obviously also not going to get a very good in depth discussion on the finer points and intricacies of Christianity with someone who finds the whole thing to be false. And trust me, I've spent hours and hours debating Atheists online (not specifically on Atheist forums but on the internet in general) and still do sometimes, usually without any sign that anything is sinking in. As someone who spent much of their life as an atheist and even went to church as an atheist, nothing really sunk in until I went through my own experiences in life that led me to God when the time is right. It's your life, if you genuinely want to know God you'll learn to do so. If you want to keep believing that all of the matter in the universe somehow created itself from nothing without a God-like figure then go ahead. It's your life

Even those of you with a "legitimate persepctive... from the non-Christian side" would still benefit from those without a Christian bias, agreed? I often see Christian arguments in which one person cites a bible claim and their opponent rebuts with a bible claim, and both are still convinced that they're both right even though they're on opposite sides of an argument. For example, I often see this when Christians are arguing about whether John the Baptist was Elijah -- "yes" quotes Luke 1:17, "no" quotes John 1:21 (Was John the Baptist Elijah?) -- and the atheist notices the biblical contradiction that neither party will notice or agree to. They will forever be deadlocked because of their Christian bias to believe that the bible contains no contradictions.

I didn't mean to even imply that it's "wrong" to be in a Christian forum -- I myself admitted to visiting Atheist forums. But I did imply, and downright state, that it's wrong to only visit Christian forums. By doing so, you're not evangelizing with easy-to-find unbelievers as you were commanded to do (https://www.9marks.org/article/journalmust-every-christian-evangelize/). These two concepts aren't mutually exclusive, so defending your presence on a Christian forum doesn't defend your absence on atheist sites.

If you truly believe that atheists are "close-minded and as fervent in their beliefs as anyone", then why would the bible even tell you to evangelize to us? Do you doubt the power of your god to change minds? Do you doubt the power of your argument? If not, then this is no excuse.

 

[SupernovaK]

I've been thrown out of 4 atheist sites. My opening post always presented a crucified Saviour redeeming mankind from their sins.

Then the questions begin pouring in, rude a vulgar as possible. I keep my cool and answer all the questions, most concerning the long list of bible contradictions they have accumulated through ignorance of scripture.

After a few days when they can't the best of you, one here and one there want to hear more about why God does this or that, how did sin enter the world, what is it that God wants from me, etc. That's when the door is slammed in your face.

Just before I was banned on the last site, a man sent me a personal message from the site saying the things he had done in his life would never be forgiven by God, no way He could love me the way you say. I replied with scriptural proof that God did love him and would save him. I followed the Roman Road to salvation with the man and hope he accepted Christ.

The next morning the banned email was in my box.

I'm sorry to hear this, Charlie24. Obviously this wasn't aimed at you -- it was directed at those who haven't even tried, not those who have tried and failed.

I have personally seen Christians be treated harshly, with name-calling and slander, and those atheists won't get banned, while the Christians will get banned for doing the same thing back. Bias isn't just a Christian problem, and I think we both agree this should never happen on any site. My claim was only that Christians are welcome to speak on atheist sites, and I will attest that I've never seen a Christian banned when they stick to kind manner and language. I myself have been banned from this very site before (obviously it wasn't forever) and I think the reason given was that I "linked to an atheist site" when giving a citation to back up one of my claims.

If you yourself were banned just for disagreements, I'd love a link to demonstrate that. You can send it to my inbox so that you yourself won't have to worry about getting locked out of this site for linking to an atheist forum

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Even those of you with a "legitimate persepctive... from the non-Christian side" would still benefit from those without a Christian bias, agreed? I often see Christian arguments in which one person cites a bible claim and their opponent rebuts with a bible claim, and both are still convinced that they're both right even though they're on opposite sides of an argument. For example, I often see this when Christians are arguing about whether John the Baptist was Elijah -- "yes" quotes Luke 1:17, "no" quotes John 1:21 (Was John the Baptist Elijah?) -- and the atheist notices the biblical contradiction that neither party will notice or agree to. They will forever be deadlocked because of their Christian bias to believe that the bible contains no contradictions.

I didn't mean to even imply that it's "wrong" to be in a Christian forum -- I myself admitted to visiting Atheist forums. But I did imply, and downright state, that it's wrong to only visit Christian forums. By doing so, you're not evangelizing with easy-to-find unbelievers as you were commanded to do (https://www.9marks.org/article/journalmust-every-christian-evangelize/). These two concepts aren't mutually exclusive, so defending your presence on a Christian forum doesn't defend your absence on atheist sites.

If you truly believe that atheists are "close-minded and as fervent in their beliefs as anyone", then why would the bible even tell you to evangelize to us? Do you doubt the power of your god to change minds? Do you doubt the power of your argument? If not, then this is no excuse.

The responsibility of Christians is to share the Gospel with those outside of the Christian faith. We can only tell you that Jesus died on the cross to take away the guilt and punishment of people's sinfulness. A Christian cannot do more than that. It is up to the other person to make his or her own choice whether to believe it or not. Then the responsibility for the other person's life and eternal soul is on that person, not on the Christian who has shared the Gospel, nor on God Himself. He does not force anyone to adopt Christian faith. He says, "You choose which way you want to go, and be prepared to accept the consequences of your choice."

 

[Serving Zion]

First off, I have to apologize for throwing this item in "the kitchen sink". It ought to be in "Outreach", specifically in Debating Other Faiths, but for some reason people of other faiths have "insufficient privileges" to post there. That doesn't make sense... is debate about other religions supposed to only take place between Christians? How do you expect to get a legitimate perspective and argument from the non-Christian side?

Anyways, I'm an atheist. I've posted to atheist forums before, but that strikes me as rather pointless. A forum dominated with atheists is a place to preach to the choir and that's all. I genuinely think my point-of-view, that there is insufficient evidence for the existence of a god (yours or anyone else's), is the correct one and because of that I feel pretty confident debating that point with people who don't agree with me.

So why are Christians here? Shouldn't you be dominating the threads of other forums, trying to evangelize? Your bible commands you to do so, and most of you (I imagine) feel as confident in your beliefs, so why aren't you testing them on people who disagree with you rather than people who won't try to poke holes in your arguments?

It seems silly that most avenues for speaking to atheists even on this very site have been closed down, and if you've checked out other Christian forums, you'll find that they're even less inviting to outside points-of-view. Didn't Jesus explain that he sat with "sinners" because they were the very people that he had been sent to speak with? (Matthew 9:10-13) So why are there so few of you on atheist forums, not a single one of which excludes believers?

The environment in those places is not really conducive to establishing greater understanding of man's relationship with God, whereas Christianity is specifically for that purpose.

When a[n atheist] person is prepared to seek out God sincerely, then they will know to look at religions and The Holy Spirit will be convicting their conscience (a subconscious sort of intuition) that this man Jesus who was crucified in God's name for having done no harm.. there's something not quite right about it, and a lot of people seem to agree that there's something in it. Furthermore, Christians (of a sound mind) actually state plain face that they know Him personally, even 2,000 years later! .. so He draws them to find out more about it.

A Christian forum is the obvious place that a person will go when they are wanting to find information about Christianity, to be able to just talk to people about it, even under the cover of anonymity.

Whereas if a Christian is to go onto an atheist forum, the climate is more for the purpose of expressing common views that are opposed to theistic worldviews. The ones who have that view have become comfortable with, and convinced of it, and they all agree that theistic worldviews do not make sense. So the overwhelming spirit of the culture in those places is weighted toward opposing the knowledge of Christianity. For this reason, if a Christian is to go there and begin offering his views, he will encounter opposition, that becomes a battle to establish who ultimately has the greatest strength. Those discussions escalate into fights and eventually one of them gets hurt. (It happens often enough on Christian forums too).

Unless people are genuinely interested in finding out more information about the knowledge of God as revealed through Christianity, it just doesn't produce the type of result that Christianity is meant to achieve. Our goal is to recover world peace according to God's intention (aka: paradise - Revelation 21:3-4, Isaiah 11:6-9), that is consistently assaulted by humankind's propensity to do sin.

If every Christian would adopt this attitude entirely, (to stop trying to push their beliefs on others but at the same time still asking them whether they are interested to have a serious and honest talk about it), then it would no longer be offensive to anyone and as a result, many of the great minds that have been offended by offensive Christians would find a welcome place in contributing to the increased knowledge of the depths of God. (It isn't as though they aren't welcome in Jesus' view, but there is somewhat of an adversary that has an interest in Christianity - that we all must take authority over and endure to get through, unless we would go under it's authority - 1 John 4:1, Matthew 23:13, Matthew 23:15).

It is unfortunate that, what might seem (to the uninitiated) to be a united front of Christians, have an anxious sort of weakness in that they believe it is their responsibility to make converts by forcing others to adopt their beliefs instead of trusting The Holy Spirit to guide the seekers to enquire of them in His good timing, and only then being prepared to give solid, helpful answers in order that they might grow according to God's direction (Matthew 23:8-11, 1 Corinthians 3:6-7).

Jesus said "Anyone who drinks of the water that I give them to drink, will never thirst again. The water that I will give to him will become a spring inside of them, a fountain overflowing with life!" (John 4:14, Mark 9:41).

Our responsibility as Christians is to guide seekers to trust the cup that Jesus is giving them to drink, and to care about their growth without taking personal ownership of them as though their faith were our own creation (this means to encourage them to become powerful in their faith -- even resisting the temptation to sabotage their growth through envy if they show potential to shine brighter than we do!).

Hopefully this will be useful for you to consider

.. Welcome to CF! .. This is The Gospel that I share: www.adonai-reigns.life/the-gospel

 

[SupernovaK]

That's the difference. No Atheist would be treated like that on CF.

Sure they would. And I have been, right here. The insults are typically softer and the language not as vulgar, though I'm still insulted as often as you would expect an "enemy" to be attacked.

 

[SupernovaK]

The responsibility of Christians is to share the Gospel with those outside of the Christian faith. We can only tell you that Jesus died on the cross to take away the guilt and punishment of people's sinfulness. A Christian cannot do more than that. It is up to the other person to make his or her own choice whether to believe it or not. Then the responsibility for the other person's life and eternal soul is on that person, not on the Christian who has shared the Gospel, nor on God Himself. He does not force anyone to adopt Christian faith. He says, "You choose which way you want to go, and be prepared to accept the consequences of your choice."

If it is "the responsibility of Christians", then why aren't you out there sharing it with known collections of unbelievers?

 

[SupernovaK]

The environment in those places is not really conducive to establishing greater understanding of man's relationship with God, whereas Christianity is specifically for that purpose.

When a[n atheist] person is prepared to seek out God sincerely, then they will know to look at religions and The Holy Spirit will be convicting their conscience (a subconscious sort of intuition) that this man Jesus who was crucified in God's name for having done no harm.. there's something not quite right about it, and a lot of people seem to agree that there's something in it. Furthermore, Christians (of a sound mind) actually state plain face that they know Him personally, even 2,000 years later! .. so He draws them to find out more about it.

A Christian forum is the obvious place that a person will go when they are wanting to find information about Christianity, to be able to just talk to people about it, even under the cover of anonymity.

Whereas if a Christian is to go onto an atheist forum, the climate is more for the purpose of expressing common views that are opposed to theistic worldviews. The ones who have that view have become comfortable with, and convinced of it, and they all agree that theistic worldviews do not make sense. So the overwhelming spirit of the culture in those places is weighted toward opposing the knowledge of Christianity. For this reason, if a Christian is to go there and begin offering his views, he will encounter opposition, that becomes a battle to establish who ultimately has the greatest strength. Those discussions escalate into fights and eventually one of them gets hurt. (It happens often enough on Christian forums too).

Unless people are genuinely interested in finding out more information about the knowledge of God as revealed through Christianity, it just doesn't produce the type of result that Christianity is meant to achieve. Our goal is to recover world peace according to God's intention (aka: paradise - Revelation 21:3-4, Isaiah 11:6-9), that is consistently assaulted by humankind's propensity to do sin.

If every Christian would adopt this attitude entirely, (to stop trying to push their beliefs on others but at the same time still asking them whether they are interested to have a serious and honest talk about it), then it would no longer be offensive to anyone and as a result, many of the great minds that have been offended by offensive Christians would find a welcome place in contributing to the increased knowledge of the depths of God. (It isn't as though they aren't welcome in Jesus' view, but there is somewhat of an adversary that has an interest in Christianity - that we all must take authority over and endure to get through, unless we would go under it's authority - 1 John 4:1, Matthew 23:13, Matthew 23:15).

It is unfortunate that, what might seem (to the uninitiated) to be a united front of Christians, have an anxious sort of weakness in that they believe it is their responsibility to make converts by forcing others to adopt their beliefs instead of trusting The Holy Spirit to guide the seekers to enquire of them in His good timing, and only then being prepared to give solid, helpful answers in order that they might grow according to God's direction (Matthew 23:8-11, 1 Corinthians 3:6-7).

Jesus said "Anyone who drinks of the water that I give them to drink, will never thirst again. The water that I will give to him will become a spring inside of them, a fountain overflowing with life!" (John 4:14, Mark 9:41).

Our responsibility as Christians is to guide seekers to trust the cup that Jesus is giving them to drink, and to care about their growth without taking personal ownership of them as though their faith were our own creation (this means to encourage them to become powerful in their faith -- even resisting the temptation to sabotage their growth through envy if they show potential to shine brighter than we do!).

Hopefully this will be useful for you to consider

.. Welcome to CF! .. This is The Gospel that I share: www.adonai-reigns.life/the-gospel

Then what environment is? Do you only evangelize to those who specifically seek you out to be converted?

I have "drunk of the water that [Jesus] gives to drink", that is, I've read the bible cover-to-cover 5 or 6 times. I used to be a Christian in my youth. But around the age of 20, I started to notice how the bible's claims didn't reflect reality and I became an atheist, claims such as "anyone who drinks of the water that I give them to drink will never thirst again".

 

[SupernovaK]

The environment in those places is not really conducive to establishing greater understanding of man's relationship with God, whereas Christianity is specifically for that purpose.

When a[n atheist] person is prepared to seek out God sincerely, then they will know to look at religions and The Holy Spirit will be convicting their conscience (a subconscious sort of intuition) that this man Jesus who was crucified in God's name for having done no harm.. there's something not quite right about it, and a lot of people seem to agree that there's something in it. Furthermore, Christians (of a sound mind) actually state plain face that they know Him personally, even 2,000 years later! .. so He draws them to find out more about it.

A Christian forum is the obvious place that a person will go when they are wanting to find information about Christianity, to be able to just talk to people about it, even under the cover of anonymity.

Whereas if a Christian is to go onto an atheist forum, the climate is more for the purpose of expressing common views that are opposed to theistic worldviews. The ones who have that view have become comfortable with, and convinced of it, and they all agree that theistic worldviews do not make sense. So the overwhelming spirit of the culture in those places is weighted toward opposing the knowledge of Christianity. For this reason, if a Christian is to go there and begin offering his views, he will encounter opposition, that becomes a battle to establish who ultimately has the greatest strength. Those discussions escalate into fights and eventually one of them gets hurt. (It happens often enough on Christian forums too).

Unless people are genuinely interested in finding out more information about the knowledge of God as revealed through Christianity, it just doesn't produce the type of result that Christianity is meant to achieve. Our goal is to recover world peace according to God's intention (aka: paradise - Revelation 21:3-4, Isaiah 11:6-9), that is consistently assaulted by humankind's propensity to do sin.

If every Christian would adopt this attitude entirely, (to stop trying to push their beliefs on others but at the same time still asking them whether they are interested to have a serious and honest talk about it), then it would no longer be offensive to anyone and as a result, many of the great minds that have been offended by offensive Christians would find a welcome place in contributing to the increased knowledge of the depths of God. (It isn't as though they aren't welcome in Jesus' view, but there is somewhat of an adversary that has an interest in Christianity - that we all must take authority over and endure to get through, unless we would go under it's authority - 1 John 4:1, Matthew 23:13, Matthew 23:15).

It is unfortunate that, what might seem (to the uninitiated) to be a united front of Christians, have an anxious sort of weakness in that they believe it is their responsibility to make converts by forcing others to adopt their beliefs instead of trusting The Holy Spirit to guide the seekers to enquire of them in His good timing, and only then being prepared to give solid, helpful answers in order that they might grow according to God's direction (Matthew 23:8-11, 1 Corinthians 3:6-7).

Jesus said "Anyone who drinks of the water that I give them to drink, will never thirst again. The water that I will give to him will become a spring inside of them, a fountain overflowing with life!" (John 4:14, Mark 9:41).

Our responsibility as Christians is to guide seekers to trust the cup that Jesus is giving them to drink, and to care about their growth without taking personal ownership of them as though their faith were our own creation (this means to encourage them to become powerful in their faith -- even resisting the temptation to sabotage their growth through envy if they show potential to shine brighter than we do!).

Hopefully this will be useful for you to consider

.. Welcome to CF! .. This is The Gospel that I share: www.adonai-reigns.life/the-gospel

I gave you a short, pithy reply before because I wanted to try to respond to everyone who took the time to respond to me. I know you took a lot of time and effort to write all of this, and I don't want to just dismiss it briefly.

Do you recognize your bias against atheist forums? You claim that people come to Christian sites for information... which obviously doesn't apply to me. I came for disagreement. Surely I'm not the only one. I don't want to test out my atheist arguments against people who already agree with me, because their atheist bias is likely to give me poor feedback. I want to discuss "the God question" with those who are on the other side of it so I can get legitimate feedback that will actually strengthen my argument rather than give me a false sense of confidence.

And while you could do that on an atheist website, surely you don't have to. You can discuss the exact same things that you discuss here. There's a common template for forums that will include a main discussion page (such as "atheism and theism") and the sub-forums about things like politics and science. You could go there to test out your Christian arguments, preferably with an objective to persuade your opponents, but you could just see how they sound against people who don't already agree with them. I would prefer to be persuasive, though I'm under no obligation to win converts -- there's no "atheist heaven".

Obviously if you go there you'll face opposition. So do I when I post in a Christian forum. That's the whole point. I don't want to live in an echo chamber where my voice just gets repeated back to me. I've heard my own views plenty. Don't you actually want to know what atheists think and believe straight from them rather than filtered through Christian bias? Don't you want to try to win them over? If you think that the bible is persuasive, you should be sharing it with those you want to persuade, but I'll tell you up front that it's not. Quoting the bible to me as you did is just as persuasive to me as a Muslim quoting from the Qur'an is to you -- not even slightly.

 

[Serving Zion]

Then what environment is? Do you only evangelize to those who specifically seek you out to be converted?

No, I do in fact approach people in environments where I am expecting to have good conversation (the street is a good place - people are relaxed, the topic is easy to raise in a casual manner).

I always work in collaboration with The Holy Spirit in them. If I sense that they are becoming uncooperative, then I recognise that a discussion will not be conducive. It is best to shut down those conversations quickly before casualty happens, and allow The Holy Spirit to make use of what was said over time, that maybe He will have another opportunity to build upon it when the heat of the moment has subsided (most likely with a different person).

I have "drunk of the water that [Jesus] gives to drink", that is, I've read the bible cover-to-cover 5 or 6 times. I used to be a Christian in my youth. But around the age of 20, I started to notice how the bible's claims didn't reflect reality and I became an atheist, claims such as "anyone who drinks of the water that I give them to drink will never thirst again".

It's ok, I do understand how these things can happen, and Jesus knows too. Not every spirit that calls itself The Holy Spirit is in fact from God, and those ones that do the devil's work in Jesus' name are the most harmful of all. Subtle, cunning, yeah I have been a victim

They are coordinated (Proverbs 30:27) and they conspire against us - some planting this idea of thought, another planting that, and then one comes along for the king-hit. Becomes one of those lost sheep (Luke 15:4-6).

Anyhow, I trust that my words will be useful to you if you let them sink in. Then you could let me know if you think I might be able to help a little more.

You have my best wishes on your journey, of course! .. Great to see that you've brought your mind forth to help us establish truths

 

[Serving Zion]

I gave you a short, pithy reply before because I wanted to try to respond to everyone who took the time to respond to me. I know you took a lot of time and effort to write all of this, and I don't want to just dismiss it briefly.

Ah! .. cross-posted, hang fire.. I will read this and respond straight away

 

[Charlie24]

Then what environment is? Do you only evangelize to those who specifically seek you out to be converted?

I have "drunk of the water that [Jesus] gives to drink", that is, I've read the bible cover-to-cover 5 or 6 times. I used to be a Christian in my youth. But around the age of 20, I started to notice how the bible's claims didn't reflect reality and I became an atheist, claims such as "anyone who drinks of the water that I give them to drink will never thirst again".

When Christ said, "anyone who drinks of the water I shall give him, he shall never thirst again," He was referring to the things of this world never satisfying the soul and life.

The water that Christ gives is represented by the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit through faith in Christ brings spiritual life, or better known as eternal life.

The soul of man is dead in trespass and sin. It is the Holy Spirit through Christ that brings the water of life.

 

[Serving Zion]

Do you recognize your bias against atheist forums? You claim that people come to Christian sites for information... which obviously doesn't apply to me. I came for disagreement. Surely I'm not the only one. I don't want to test out my atheist arguments against people who already agree with me, because their atheist bias is likely to give me poor feedback. I want to discuss "the God question" with those who are on the other side of it so I can get legitimate feedback that will actually strengthen my argument rather than give me a false sense of confidence.

This is really, really interesting! I'll tell you why. I didn't see this intention in your OP at all. I saw that you had a valid complaint and you wanted to understand why Christians didn't go to atheist forums very much. I responded to your OP because I recognised that The Holy Spirit would like the opportunity to explain why He doesn't take many of His people into those places. Yes, I do recognise my bias against atheist forums, it isn't as though anyone should be offended though. It isn't a bias against atheist people, just the type of activity. Atheists being atheists in holy spirit is perfectly fine with me .. when there is contention though .. (then you will recognise that my bias is equally measured against Christians of the same spirit).

As for whether you and I will be able to establish much on other topics, we might just have to find out!

And while you could do that on an atheist website, surely you don't have to. You can discuss the exact same things that you discuss here. There's a common template for forums that will include a main discussion page (such as "atheism and theism") and the sub-forums about things like politics and science. You could go there to test out your Christian arguments, preferably with an objective to persuade your opponents, but you could just see how they sound against people who don't already agree with them. I would prefer to be persuasive, though I'm under no obligation to win converts -- there's no "atheist heaven".

Could you give me a link to an atheist website that you would like me to join? I will take a look at it, thank you.

Obviously if you go there you'll face opposition. So do I when I post in a Christian forum. That's the whole point. I don't want to live in an echo chamber where my voice just gets repeated back to me. I've heard my own views plenty. Don't you actually want to know what atheists think and believe straight from them rather than filtered through Christian bias? Don't you want to try to win them over? If you think that the bible is persuasive, you should be sharing it with those you want to persuade, but I'll tell you up front that it's not. Quoting the bible to me as you did is just as persuasive to me as a Muslim quoting from the Qur'an is to you -- not even slightly.

I do in fact discuss with atheists, but I don't really go to atheist forums. Internet is time consuming. I need to use my internet time well, and I find that Christian forums (often) has enough of the legitimate contributors that make my time worthwhile. Sometimes I spend more time here than I can afford.. but it is useful to them and I feel better for having done it than turned away from someone who is asking for help.

Anyhow, if I am finding that my efforts to you have not had the impact I had intended, then I should just leave it with you. There is plenty to consider in what I have already said that you could yet give more mind to. I'd suggest if you were to pick just one thing, take a look at the back cover of that link I sent you to the gospel booklet that I share. This is a pocket-sized booklet that I print and give to people when I meet them, if The Holy Spirit indicates that it would be useful to them.

I hope I've covered everything you had asked for .. of course let me know if I might have overlooked something particularly important to you, or if there is anything else that you think I could say that would be useful to you for now.