Out of the Mouth of The Beast

[Commander Xenophon]

Actually @EastCoastRemnant, assuming you still reject the Trinity as you outlined here: how do adventists view of the trinity?

Makes your argument that St. Michael must be Jesus Christ because Michael means "like God" more internally consistent.

However, you can also see then why those of us who profess a faith in the Trinity must reject this identification. Because we believe Jesus Christ is God, not just "like God," of one essence with the Father (homoousios) and not of a similar essence (homoiousios).

We believe Jesus Christ is God Incarnate, not merely a creature who is like God, which is an apt descriptor of St. Michael and the other archangels (Gabriel, Uriel, Raphael, etc.).

 

[Commander Xenophon]

The point I was making is that L. Ron Hubbard is apparently the most prolific male author, so if Ellen White is the most prolific female author, that doesn't count for much in my book. Quality, not quantity.

Writing is very hard by the way, and my experience is that some of the best writers are those who have periodic writer's block.

Now Ellen White is at least a Christian, and a Trinitarian Christian who did a good turn by persuading Adventists to embrace a faith in the Trinity. However, ECR's argument that I should somehow regard her works as inspired prophecy because she is the most prolific female author, is bogus; if I were to do that, I'd also have to look to L. Ron Hubbard as an inspired prophet.

Also, consider how small the total body of work of the most prolific Old Testament prophet, Moses, is, relatively speaking.

 

[Root of Jesse]

I wholeheartedly disagree. If we must respect the office of the Pope, then we must necessarily be Catholics. The real issue is whether or not we show respect for each other, which is to say that we learn to approach each other with the gentleness and tact that lends itself to polite conversation. I never need respect the Pope, his office, officers or his religious institution, but I ought to approach the subject with kindness toward those who might read my post.

Nope. Many foreigners respect the president without being American.

 

[stage five]

You mean like the seventh day Sabbath being changed to the first day? Except of course, the RC believing they have the authority to do so outside of scripture.

The Catholic Church makes no claims about changing the "Sabbath". Scripture records a gathering for communion on Sunday. Early Christians went to Synagogue on Saturday and then had communion on Sunday. Sunday was the day of the Resurrection. Eventually, many Christians were Gentiles who did not practice as Jews and many Jewish Christians were expelled from the synagogues.

The result was doing the synagogue thing first on Sunday and then doing the communion thing second. You still see this reflected in almost every mainstream liturgy today. Unlike what you find in SDA and non-mainstream churches which has no historical or scriptural basis.

 

[stage five]

Not when you look at the whole of what he has said, along with the Biblically verifiable fact that the papacy is the beast of Revelation.
Have you read Frankie's recent encyclical, 'laudato si'? In it he calls for a legislated day of rest to protect our environment. Guess which day that would be? Sunday along with the taking of the eucharist.... interesting that a woman with a 3rd grade education prophesied this over 150 years ago...

Interesting that a woman made statements 150 years ago that haven't come true and are incredibly unlikely to?

 

[stage five]

How could a woman with a third grade education become the most prolific female writer in history? How did she know that Protestantism would reunite with Catholicism just before the end of time? Why is here prediction of a sunday law, that was scoffed at for over a hundred years, now be coming to fruition?

No it's not.

 

[stage five]

The passage in question, 1 Thessalonians 4:16, is better translated as "with the voice of an archangel," the form used by the NKJV as well as the Challoner Douay Rheims.

I noticed that too. There is no definite article in the Greek. This appears to be where people get the idea that there is only one Archangel.

This shows how silly people can people about making theological implications from English translations instead of going by the original languages. If you are going to make an argument based on the word "the", then you better make sure it is actually there.

 

[ViaCrucis]

How could a woman with a third grade education become the most prolific female writer in history?

Was she?

I decided to look this up and here are some names of the most prolific female writers:

Anne Shepherd Swan - published over 200 novels
Kathleen Lindsay - over 900 published works, and held the world record of most prolific author ever, she--by the way--lived well after Ellen White.
Barbara Cartland - over 700 novels
Corín Tellado - published over 5,000 writings

So I'll be curious to see the statistics to back up the claim that Ellen White is the most prolific female writer in history.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Look at what pope Frankie said a couple of months ago... pure heresy.


http://www.lastampa.it/2015/12/27/vaticaninsider/eng/the-vatican/francis-let-us-not-lose-confidence-in-the-family-ZEBdrJew2DzP7q7e0DmAQN/pagina.html

Do you realize what this enemy of God is saying? That Jesus had to beg forgiveness from His parents... implying that He did wrong, that He broke the 5th Commandment!
What does the Bible say that Jesus said when found in the temple.. " did you not know I would be about my Fathers business?" Does that sound like a guilt ridden child that had to beg forgiveness?

Nope. Not at all. After all, He was God Himself in the flesh. Oh to have been there!.......

Isaiah 11:6
The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together
and a little child/lad shall lead them.

From this:

Luke 2:
42 and when He became twelve years old, they having gone up to Jerusalem, according to the custom of the feast,
46 And it came to pass, after three days, they found Him in the temple, sitting in the midst of the teachers, both hearing them and questioning them,
47 and all those hearing Him were astonished at His understanding and answers. [Isaiah 11:6]

To this.....who knew

Revelation 2:18
And to the messenger of the assembly in Thyatira, write!
Now this is saying the Son of YAHWEH, the One having the eyes of Him as flame of fire, and the feet of Him as to burnished-brass.


.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Was she?

I decided to look this up and here are some names of the most prolific female writers:

Anne Shepherd Swan - published over 200 novels
Kathleen Lindsay - over 900 published works, and held the world record of most prolific author ever, she--by the way--lived well after Ellen White.
Barbara Cartland - over 700 novels
Corín Tellado - published over 5,000 writings

So I'll be curious to see the statistics to back up the claim that Ellen White is the most prolific female writer in history.

-CryptoLutheran

Bravo to your pettiness...

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Was she?

I decided to look this up and here are some names of the most prolific female writers:

Anne Shepherd Swan - published over 200 novels
Kathleen Lindsay - over 900 published works, and held the world record of most prolific author ever, she--by the way--lived well after Ellen White.
Barbara Cartland - over 700 novels
Corín Tellado - published over 5,000 writings

So I'll be curious to see the statistics to back up the claim that Ellen White is the most prolific female writer in history.

-CryptoLutheran

From Wiki...

During her lifetime she wrote more than 5,000 periodical articles and 40 books. As of 2015 more than 100 White titles are available in English, including compilations from her 100,000 pages of manuscript. Some of her most famous books include The Desire of Ages, The Great Controversy and Steps to Christ. Her work on successful Christian living, Steps to Christ, has been published in more than 140 languages.

Did any of the above writers only have a grade 3 education?

 

[Wgw]

Bravo to your pettiness...

@ViaCrucis raised a legitimate objection to your claim that Ellen G White is the most prolific female author in history. I think it would be beneficial ro this thread and indeed to your case were you to reply to his objection and provide some evidence to support your claim.

There are three three respects in which a writer can be considered prolific: total published works, and published wordcount.

I myself consider wordcount the most useful metric for quantifying the output of a writer, but both metrics are valid; Tolstoy published far fewer works than Borges, but had a similiar wordcount, in that Tolstoy wrote long epics and Borges, short stories.

In the case of Ellen White, I would like to see both metrics; I think your claim that she was "the most prolific female author in history," to be truly convincing, would require she have the highest total wordcount and the largest number of published works.

Which in turn takes us to the question of popularity. How many copies of her works have actually sold vs. those of her competitors? Here. we have to be careful however, because there are tricks publishers can use to artificially inflate the sales figures for a book to make it appear on the New York Times Bestseller list, and indeed Scientology has been caught doing that with many of L Ron Hubbard's works.

In the grand scheme of things, as female authors go, Ellen G. White is relatively obscure outside of Adventist circles. I would be surprised if her actual readership even began to approach that of say, Jane Austen, Mary Shelley or Virginia Woolfe, to name a few.

The best selling female author, and indeed the most widely read, is Dame Agatha Christie, by the way.

 

[Wgw]

So just as a fact check, Ellen White in her lifetime published less than 40 books; most books published in her name were compiled posthumously fro her voluminous papers. (or perhaps ghostwritten).

Agatha Christie on the other hand published 66 novels, which have sold more than 2 billion copies; she is according to UNESCO the most translated female author, and only the Bible and Shakespeare are more widely circulated.

Food for thought.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

So just as a fact check, Ellen White in her lifetime published less than 40 books; most books published in her name were compiled posthumously fro her voluminous papers. (or perhaps ghostwritten).

Agatha Christie on the other hand published 66 novels, which have sold more than 2 billion copies; she is according to UNESCO the most translated female author, and only the Bible and Shakespeare are more widely circulated.

Food for thought.

Man, I hope this doesn't turn into yet another Ellen White thread! We are all well aware that the SDAs view the RCC as the "WoB".

Me being a Preterist, I of course disagree and believe that view is absolutely ridiculous, along with being anti-Catholic. But, to each his own..........

[I believe her and LDS/s Joseph Smith would have made perfect couple, IMHO........]

http://www.christianforums.com/thre...es-the-antichrist-over-500-years-ago.6814752/
Martin Luther identifies the Antichrist over 500 years ago!

The quote copied below is from one of Martin Luther's last books. It was titled: "A Prelude by Martin Luther on the Babylonian Captivity of the Church".

Page 536, chapter 3.

"Nevertheless, since few know this glory of baptism and the blessedness of Christian liberty, and cannot know them because of the tyranny of the pope, I for one will walk away from it all and redeem my conscience by bringing this charge against the pope and all his papists: Unless they will abolish their laws and traditions, and restore to Christ's churches their liberty and have it taught among them, they are guilty of all the souls that perish under this miserable captivity, and the papacy is truly the kingdom of Babylon, yes, the kingdom of the real Antichrist!
For who is " the man of sin" and "the son of perdition" but he that with his doctrines and his laws increases sins and the perdition of souls in the Church, while he sits in the Church as if he were God? All this the papal tyranny has fulfilled, and more than fulfilled, these many centuries. It has extinguished faith, obscured the sacraments and oppressed the Gospel."

http://www.christianforums.com/threads/was-ellen-white-a-prophetess-or-a-hoax.3078067/
Was Ellen White a prophetess or a hoax..

Yeshua My Salvation > This is a thread i made in the Adventist forum on questions concerning the validity & authority of the writings of Ellen White, do they or do they not contradict scripture. Adventist claim that her writings are authoritive and don't contradict scripture in any point. When confronted with obvious contradiction, Adventist shrug arguments against there prophet with cockiness instead of providing viewers with answeres as to why they continue to believe in a prophet that added to scripture, contradicted scrpiture and finally contradicted herself. Heres the thread where this discussion began....http://www.christianforums.com/t305...e-or-did-she-add-to-contradicted-herslef.html

Yeshua My Salvation >There are many cases where we find Ellen White either #1 adding to the bible # 2 contradicting it, & # 3 Contradicting herself.

Take for instance her statement on Patriarchs & Prophetes pg. 45, were she claims that Adam's height was much greater than that of men who now inhabit the earth. This is an addition not found anywere in scripture... I always woundered why Moses failed to write this in the book of Genesis? Did the L-rd fail to reveal this to Moses? Did he have to wait much over 2,000 years to reveal it to some modern day prophetess? Who in the world gave Ellen White the authority to add to Moses writings when the Torah is complete as scripture clearly indicates.....

In Patriarchs & Prophetes pg 74, she claims that it was " Through an angel messenger that the divine warning was conveyed to Cain.. However the bible tells us that it was G-d himself and it does not indicate that any angel messanger was present.. Gen 4: 6 -16 6 ¶ And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen? ........................

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[ViaCrucis]

If the Pope is fair game for critique, then so is Ellen G. White.

Those in glass houses, as it were.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

From Wiki...


Did any of the above writers only have a grade 3 education?

Why is being uneducated a good thing here?

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

Bravo to your pettiness...

So you resort to personal attacks when called out?

-CryptoLutheran

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

So you resort to personal attacks when called out?

-CryptoLutheran

Hey, you crafted the response. I was only commending you on it...

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

If the Pope is fair game for critique, then so is Ellen G. White.

Those in glass houses, as it were.

-CryptoLutheran

Play your games... what do I care what you think of Ellen White.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Why is being uneducated a good thing here?

-CryptoLutheran

It shows the Spirit of God... He is glorified not the young uneducated invalid who could never have written as she did.