Out of interest, why do you believe in God?

[levi501]

I do not generally attempt to explain my faith. There is (in my opinion) no justification for this faith, and no logical explanation.

I agree.

But here I am, still believing. So why? There is no why (for me), there just is.

because it's comforting.

 

[HaloHope]

Don't know if I meet the "intelligent" criteria, but my belief in God comes from first hand experience of him existing. I'm in a bit of a rush at the moment so don't have a huge amount of time to go into details (I'm happy to in future though, just pm me or ill post in-depth later in the thread) so I will just say I essentially had an event occur in my life that to me can only explain in two ways A) God exists or B) I'm completely insane and I am opting for A.

 

[Oneofthediaspora]

because it's comforting.

And atheism isn't I suppose?
Come off it.

A universe of limited liabilities? A universe with a door clearly marked "exit"?
Answerable only to yourself and your peers?

This attitude that some atheists expound that they are more intellectually honest and courageous because they accept the universe as it "really is" whilst theists need a fairy tale crutch makes me reach for the vomit bowl.

And you call us judgemental and smug?

 

[levi501]

And atheism isn't I suppose?
Come off it.

A universe of limited liabilities? A universe with a door clearly marked "exit"?
Answerable only to yourself and your peers?

You fail at understanding the human condition.

What sane person wouldn't want to believe that there's an all-knowing/loving entity that wisks us away to spend eternity with him and the people we love after we die? Fading into non-existance, entertaining that life is essentially for naught can be very disquieting.

This attitude that some atheists expound that they are more intellectually honest and courageous because they accept the universe as it "really is" whilst theists need a fairy tale crutch makes me reach for the vomit bowl.

lol, insecure much?

 

[Chesterton]

You fail at understanding the human condition.

What sane person wouldn't want to believe that there's an all-knowing/loving entity that wisks us away to spend eternity with him and the people we love after we die?

What sane person wouldn't want to believe that no matter how we live we simply fall into peaceful, dreamless sleep forever after we die?

Fading into non-existance, entertaining that life is essentially for naught can be very disquieting.

Facing a moral judge, entertaining that life actually means something, can be more disquieting.

 

[levi501]

What sane person wouldn't want to believe that no matter how we live we simply fall into peaceful, dreamless sleep forever after we die?

because it goes against our base survival instinct.

fail.

Facing a moral judge, entertaining that life actually means something, can be more disquieting.

lol, yah, because being good, having faith and asking for forgiveness during a finite lifetime is a rough tradeoff to spending eternity in happy land.

 

[Chesterton]

because it goes against our base survival instinct.

So does Hell. Ever heard of suicide?

 

[stan1980]

I honestly cannot see any possible explanation for existence that doesn't include God.
My belief in God is completely rational and I could defend that statement pretty well I think.

I'd love to hear

However, whilst I hold that cool and intellectual assent to the idea; it was only through a very strange and very unpleasant set of circumstances that I realised what it meant to actually feel the the belief to which I assented.
This would take a lot of explaining and I'm not sure I possess the words to describe what it felt like. A lot of it would not really paint me in a nice light either; so I'm not going to do that.

Not a very good answer I know, but I don't think you wanted the usual arguments.

Mike.

You're a scouser, the only way is up at the moment

 

[stan1980]

I personally believe in God, I think something had to spark off all that we see before us. Now to me, I don't think with how big the universe is that we're somehow alone as one pet project of God. To be honest, we might just be a spec on the radar to him, I see God as having purely the role of an observer, rarely interfering in our physical world and never in any unsubtle way.

My key divide with Christians, aside from the belief that none of us really know for SURE what the powers that be are, is that I don't trust a dusty old book that for all I know, could have been written in the same manner as the books and writings of every other religion. Obviously Christians would agree with me that EVERY religion can't all be correct, since many of them would contradict eachother. So I think it is reasonable to decide that none of them are correct in any manner but the foundations of God-belief.

I used to be pretty similar to you, except now I think it is unlikely God exists. If God does exist, then I find it unlikely that religion has the right idea about him.

 

[stan1980]

Don't know if I meet the "intelligent" criteria, but my belief in God comes from first hand experience of him existing. I'm in a bit of a rush at the moment so don't have a huge amount of time to go into details (I'm happy to in future though, just pm me or ill post in-depth later in the thread) so I will just say I essentially had an event occur in my life that to me can only explain in two ways A) God exists or B) I'm completely insane and I am opting for A.

If you do have time, I'd love to hear about that!

 

[jcook922]

I used to be pretty similar to you, except now I think it is unlikely God exists. If God does exist, then I find it unlikely that religion has the right idea about him.

That's pretty much where I'm at, the latter part. I just think of God as more of a fickle observer and less of a selfish being that uses us as his playthings, demanding we live our life by his rules. If he really wanted that, he wouldn't have given us the free will to live otherwise.

 

[Flibbertigibbet]

I think a lot of people that believe in God wouldn't be able to succinctly answer the question of why they have faith. And I'm not saying that's a bad thing. There's a whole world of human feeling and experience beyond pure logic and reason. There are a lot of logical arguments, don't get me wrong, but they don't IMO fully answer the question.

In a way it's similar to asking why you love someone or why you appreciate a certain piece of art. I suppose I could tell you I love my family and friends because of a host of evolutionary reasons, but I don't think that would fully capture what I feel and what I'm trying to express when I say that. I'm aware, of course, that belief in a deity, unlike the above, tends to posit some actual external being we otherwise have little evidence for.

We could try to reduce faith to its constituent components, such as personal experience, tradition, community, charismatic leaders, historical evidence, individual psychology, need to believe something etc. But that doesn't seem, to me at least, to fully capture what it's all about for people of faith.

^ This. I can give the details that led me, at the age of 43, to even consider that Christianity might be true, but as for the belief itself - I can't explain it.

I can, however, emphatically state that it was not because I was raised to believe it.

 

[wanderingone]

You're right, and I myself am guilty of this behaior on more than one occasion. However, I only respond in kind, and always try to at least start out on the right foot.

Oh heck we're ALL guilty of it sometimes, and all around there is plenty of invitations to that behavior on all sides.

 

[wanderingone]

I used to be pretty similar to you, except now I think it is unlikely God exists. If God does exist, then I find it unlikely that religion has the right idea about him.

so often I think it unlikely.. but then again there is an abundance of unlikely things out there... and I end up in the believers category every time I search out the idea. I agree religion generally has the wrong idea about God- or perhaps we practitioners of religion fail to recognize the difference between our traditions, the things we humans desire to have as a means to express our faith, and God.

 

[wanderingone]

because it's comforting.

Actually it's not.

 

[WatersMoon110]

I'm just wondering if you could explain from your own point of view, why you believe God exists?

Statistically, I probably believe in God because both of my parents do (in their own special little ways). Parental views, I believe, are one of the best indicators as to whether a person is theistic or atheistic.

But I've had personal religious experiences that lead me to believe that my view of the Universe is correct. It wouldn't do much to convince anyone else, obviously, but it has convinced me. I decided at some point that I can never empirically know if my view of Reality in any way resembles how Reality actually is, so I figured it was easier for me to just "go for it" until I find any evidence to the contrary. And I haven't, as of yet, found any such evidence that contradicts my world view, only many people that I respect or love that don't agree with me.

 

[Robbie_James_Francis]

Actually it's not.

I think, on balance, we should all be able to agree that both believing and disbelieving in a theistic God can be comforting and not.

It's surely comforting to believe some beneficent, omnipotent force has everything under control, so things ultimately have to turn out OK. And that there is a life after death where we can, if we choose, live well and maybe see our loved ones again. But I'm sure it can be the opposite to think of Judgement and the difficulties of having to live your life by that deity's edicts, and the possibility of others we love not experiencing heaven.

Similarly, it's not comforting to think that us flawed and finite human beings are the only ones that can sort out our huge problems, and that once someone dies, that's it. But I suppose there is some comfort in the knowledge that we don't have to make an effort to believe a certain set of things, nor does an ultimate and horrific punishment feature in moral issues of how we live our lives.

By the way, I'm not picking on you, wanderingone, it's just that yours was the last post in this discussion about what's comforting.

 

[Braunwyn]

This would take a lot of explaining and I'm not sure I possess the words to describe what it felt like. A lot of it would not really paint me in a nice light either; so I'm not going to do that.

I wonder how many have come to their beliefs via dispair. It doesn't seem all that uncommon ime.

And atheism isn't I suppose?
Come off it.

As an ex-christian/current atheist, I can attest to the idea that it's less comforting as an atheist. I've mulled over the idea of trying to talk myself into believing in a god so I wouldn't have to A. confront my mortality, B. feel comfort rather than thinking I'm on my own and C. accept the indoctrination from childhood that is difficult to shed.

A universe of limited liabilities? A universe with a door clearly marked "exit"?
Answerable only to yourself and your peers?

I'm not sure what you mean but I'm guessing you're targeting morality in some way. If this is the case, than having to morally answer to an outside entity only highlights amorality. Just saying.

What sane person wouldn't want to believe that no matter how we live we simply fall into peaceful, dreamless sleep forever after we die?

Facing a moral judge, entertaining that life actually means something, can be more disquieting.

I'm not quite sure what you're getting at here as well. If your moral sense does not come from within...if you could do whatever you please and don't out of fear or having to answer for behavior that would contribute to suffering, than that isn't moral at all. Or, I may not be understanding your post. If so, sorry.

 

[wanderingone]

I think, on balance, we should all be able to agree that both believing and disbelieving in a theistic God can be comforting and not.

It's surely comforting to believe some beneficent, omnipotent force has everything under control, so things ultimately have to turn out OK. And that there is a life after death where we can, if we choose, live well and maybe see our loved ones again. But I'm sure it can be the opposite to think of Judgement and the difficulties of having to live your life by that deity's edicts, and the possibility of others we love not experiencing heaven.

Similarly, it's not comforting to think that us flawed and finite human beings are the only ones that can sort out our huge problems, and that once someone dies, that's it. But I suppose there is some comfort in the knowledge that we don't have to make an effort to believe a certain set of things, nor does an ultimate and horrific punishment feature in moral issues of how we live our lives.

By the way, I'm not picking on you, wanderingone, it's just that yours was the last post in this discussion about what's comforting.

I know you're not picking on me.

I agree that belief and non belief each include the comforting and discomforting qualities.

Personally I know the assumption of many is that there is some mindless set of rules one follows when they are a believer (regardless of what their belief is.) That would probably make things quite comfortable.. if mindless rule following had anything to do with the being a believer. The comforting part of my faith (for me) is the trappings of it, but these things, the weekly liturgy, the order of confession etc.. that's religion, that's not faith, that's just a means to be with a community of believers, to center myself back from the flurry of activities and events that make up life.

I'm sure churches are full of nominal believers who are there because it's comforting regardless of their actual beliefs. If I was not a believer some other routine might be as comforting.

For me personally as I've said there's nothing logical behind having belief, which is why I say it's not particularly comforting. It would be much nicer to have God appear like Alanis Morrissette, scream like a banshee and prove his existence. Then we could do away with all the speculation, and say.. look I know God exists, I saw her just the other day in a sparkly little silver number having a fit by the Catholic church on the other side of town.

 

[Robbie_James_Francis]

I know you're not picking on me.

I agree that belief and non belief each include the comforting and discomforting qualities.

Personally I know the assumption of many is that there is some mindless set of rules one follows when they are a believer (regardless of what their belief is.) That would probably make things quite comfortable.. if mindless rule following had anything to do with the being a believer. The comforting part of my faith (for me) is the trappings of it, but these things, the weekly liturgy, the order of confession etc.. that's religion, that's not faith, that's just a means to be with a community of believers, to center myself back from the flurry of activities and events that make up life.

I'm sure churches are full of nominal believers who are there because it's comforting regardless of their actual beliefs. If I was not a believer some other routine might be as comforting.

I completely agree with you. I think it's very easy for everyone to see others as caricatures, and I can see why we all do sometimes given some of the coldly absolutist and overly self-confident posts we get from all sides. As a non-believer, it's easy to imagine believers as adhering strictly and absolutely to a set of rules because it's simple and comforting to them.

But such a view doesn't take into account real believers we all know or, for me, my personal experiences as a theist. There are a lot of struggles in faith, the 'dark night of the soul' experiences.

Similarly it's not just plain-sailing being a non-believer.

For me personally as I've said there's nothing logical behind having belief, which is why I say it's not particularly comforting. It would be much nicer to have God appear like Alanis Morrissette, scream like a banshee and prove his existence. Then we could do away with all the speculation, and say.. look I know God exists, I saw her just the other day in a sparkly little silver number having a fit by the Catholic church on the other side of town.

I think a lot of believers and non-believers would much prefer that situation. I know I'd rather know for sure, especially if it turns out God is a stylish singer with the voice and sarcasm of Alan Rickman.