Out of Context -Acts 15

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MikhaelDavid

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Either Acts is strictly speaking about justification or the Gentiles are free from the law except these four items.


According to many the interpretation of Acts 15 is, There is to be NO greater burden placed upon the Gentiles then these 4 and only these 4 things. To Abstain from blood, from meat offered to idols, from things strangled, and, from fornication. That is it.. no more, nothing can be added. Gentiles will be fine if they just do these four things.


But many other moral laws are not listed here. What about theft? What about lying? What about Blasphemy? So is it okay for me to steal or to lie? As a Gentile am I free to Blaspheme God's name? Some people will try to say well Acts is just abrogating ceremonial law but that makes absolutely no sense since “fornication” in the list is a moral issue whether it is done in pagan worship or whether it is done casually. Now I have no doubt that ceremonial law is super-seceded by heavenly realities by the sacred book “Epistles to the Hebrews” and that book defines for us what is ceremonial law and what is super-seceded but Acts 15 does not speak about abrogating or super-seceding the ceremonial law.


So the question then before us is, are the Gentiles free from the entire law except these four items which then would greatly limit what is morally wrong and what is morally right or the subject is not about abrogating but about justification and what is required on “new believers”up front..


But the that theory of abrogation is destroyed by what the rest of scriptures so clearly teach, the continuation of the law given by God through Moses. Not only the words of Christ in the NT but much of what is written by Christ or even about Christ in the OT including the Prophetic Psalms.. Psalm 89, "If his children forsake my law, and walk not in my judgments; If they break my statutes, and keep not my commandments; Then will I visit their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with stripes. Nevertheless my lovingkindness will I not utterly take from him, nor suffer my faithfulness to fail. " Which teaches Justification by Faith alone but also teaches us to keep His judgments, statutes, and commandments for Sanctification and that we will not lose our salvation. Many, Many passages of both OT and NT can be quoted to prove the continuation of the Laws given through Moses and that even the Gentiles are required to observe including the Feasts Days..


If the Jerusalem Council went further to declare what only the gentiles were to observe regarding the Jewish Law then verse 21 makes no sense whatsoever and would be completely out of place, "For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.". That is that the those things that are needed upfront is the only think necessary because the Gentiles will be taught the rest of the law in time because God through Moses in Old times hath in every city set up synagogues (churches) so that they will preached and read the whole scriptures so that they will learn the laws of God. Since that was set up by God and continued into the RenEwed Covenant the Gentiles will learn the rest of the law in due time. Without this verse, then the theory of abrogation makes no sense at all with the rest of the chapter.


So the issue is at hand. Either Acts 15 abrogated all laws prior to the Jerusalem Council and only these four laws are required on Gentiles which then allows Gentiles to Desecrate the Sabbath, Profane God's name, Dishonor Parents, Steal, Lie, and Covet since none of those laws are listed in Acts 15, and the Jerusalem Council was prophetically Inspired so no more can be added to this list, or Acts 15 is talking about what is required on Gentiles who are turning to God and what is required upfront on new believers because the rest of the law will be taught to them in time every Sabbath Day by the preaching of the Word of God.


These are the only two rational and logical choices before us and I believe Acts 15 context requires the second choice, that what is required upfront on new believers because the rest will come in time.


The Dreaded Acts 15 Passage.

1 And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.

The context of this entire dispute is not about circumcision or even keeping the law of God for sanctification. The context of this entire dispute is Justification and whether we are saved by keeping the law or saved by faith alone. Notice how in verse 1 that some Pharisee's which we learn in Verse 5 were believers in the Lord Jesus Christ but they taught that one can only be saved first by keeping the law of God after the manner of moses "Except ye be circumcised". So the issues is not about Sanctification.. We are not to place the law before the blood of Christ or in other words say that people can not be saved apart from the law.

8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; 9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

The apostle states that the Gentiles are saved by God purifying their hearts by faith not by works.
10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

So why tempt God? Why put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples that we nor our forefathers nor anybody can bear? What is this yoke? It can not be the law of God since Psalm 119:45 says "And I will walk at liberty for I seek thy precepts: The answer lies in the context... The Pharisees were teaching Salvation through works. We are not to place such a burden upon their necks that God did not even require since it is impossible with fallen man. We can not require that our works are the bases for our salvation since we break those commandments each and everyday.

11 But we believe that through the grace of the LORD Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

Verse 11 confirms that Gentiles are saved as the same as those born in Israel. We are saved through Grace in Christ by Faith Alone. This is the way and it was the way taught by Moses. There is no other way to salvation..


16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:

Verse 16 confirms that God did not start over but that He is rebuilding that which is fallen down through the Pharisee's and those who teach Salvation by works. God is rebuilding the tabernacle of David..

19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turning to God:

So what are we not to trouble the Gentiles with? What is the meaning of verse 19? Who are not to be troubled? We are not to trouble them who are "turning" to God. The word turning here in Greek means converting or in other words a Proselyte. We are not to trouble those who are turning to God. Don't tell them they have to be circumcised or do any law in order to be saved. We gave you no such command to do that.. This is about New Converts and we are not to teach them that salvation is by works but by Faith. But what about after they are converted? What then? Find out in verse 21.....

20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

This is an odd list... Two laws are right out of the kosher Dietary laws.... Are these things the only things to command believers? Christ said He did not destroy or abrogated the law and the prophets, So what does this passage mean? These are things that are only things to begin to tell Gentiles that they need to abstain from according to their salvation by Faith Alone and for the grosses that Gentiles are known for. These laws cannot be the End.. If they are the End for Gentiles what about Thief? Coveting? Murder? Drunkenness? Bearing False Witness, etc, etc? Are Gentiles allowed to do these things? These laws are not mentioned in Acts 15:20, What about these laws? No, This is just a starting list to place on New Converts.. But Why? Why only these things?

21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

Because the rest of the law will come to them by being taught in Church every Sabbath through the preaching of the Word and the law being read in the churches every Sabbath day which was set up by Moses of old time. Through Sanctification and being under the preached Word they will be taught the rest of the Law.. Not for Justification but for Sanctification.

Without Verse 21 nothing else makes sense but most do not read verse 21 and leave it out.

So the context is not about abrogating the law for Gentiles but "how are we saved" and what do we place on "New Converts" before they are taught and growing in the Lord.. Do we command them before even hearing the Gospel that women are to cover their heads or they can not be saved? Do we command them before even hearing the Gospel that the wife is to obey her husband or they can not be saved? Or do we command them to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ for the remission of their sins and that is by Faith Alone in Christ alone by Grace Alone. Teaching them to abstain from idols, sexual immoralities and such while being babes in Christ. Then guide them and teach them the rest by the Word as they grow in the Church...

I believe this to be the true context of the passage...

This is another in my series “Out of Context” passages. Someone had ask, “How out of Context” and these are my answers.
 
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ContraMundum

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According to many the interpretation of Acts 15 is, There is to be NO greater burden placed upon the Gentiles then these 4 and only these 4 things. To Abstain from blood, from meat offered to idols, from things strangled, and, from fornication. That is it.. no more, nothing can be added. Gentiles will be fine if they just do these four things.

No one
believes that. Not one person I have ever met, nor any church that I have ever encountered believes that the sum of Christian Law is to be taken from the Jerusalem Council, let alone from the historical book of the NT, which gives description of history, not prescription of doctrine.

What is the point of making a post addressing theology nobody believes? This is on a borderline somewhere between building a strawman argument and putting words in the mouth of others.

Have you ever asked anyone about the orthodox understanding of this passage?
 
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Heber

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No one believes that. Not one person I have ever met, nor any church that I have ever encountered believes that the sum of Christian Law is to be taken from the Jerusalem Council, let alone from the historical book of the NT, which gives description of history, not prescription of doctrine.

What is the point of making a post addressing theology nobody believes? This is on a borderline somewhere between building a strawman argument and putting words in the mouth of others.

Have you ever asked anyone about the orthodox understanding of this passage?

I agree - news to me!
 
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visionary

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No one
believes that. Not one person I have ever met, nor any church that I have ever encountered believes that the sum of Christian Law is to be taken from the Jerusalem Council, let alone from the historical book of the NT, which gives description of history, not prescription of doctrine.

What is the point of making a post addressing theology nobody believes? This is on a borderline somewhere between building a strawman argument and putting words in the mouth of others.

Have you ever asked anyone about the orthodox understanding of this passage?
You have not been out to GT lately. Take a poll and see just where they are in this question.
 
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ContraMundum

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You have not been out to GT lately. Take a poll and see just where they are in this question.

I think GT is not really a fair representation of Christian thought, is it?

You are right vis, I don't go there much and haven't for ages.

I've asked the question over on GT. I'd love to see if people really believe that.

Link to poll/thread: http://www.christianforums.com/t7518075/

Thank you. I'll be watching with much interest! :thumbsup:
 
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visionary

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I agree that the Jerusalem Council does not address all the issues, just the one of how to accept the gentile in the synagogue to learn more. But that is not the perception or the abusive way the Jerusalem Council is perceived... I can say that almost all do not even realise that that is in this context that one can truly appreciate the Jerusalem Council's advise. .. and all because they stop reading and start interpreting... before coming to the verse..

Acts 15:21
For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath.”

and that is how the Jerusalem Council is taken out of context and away from its purpose.
 
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I agree that the Jerusalem Council does not address all the issues, just the one of how to accept the gentile in the synagogue to learn more. But that is not the perception or the abusive way the Jerusalem Council is perceived... I can say that almost all do not even realise that that is in this context that one can truly appreciate the Jerusalem Council's advise. .. and all because they stop reading and start interpreting... before coming to the verse..

Acts 15:21
For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath.”

and that is how the Jerusalem Council is taken out of context and away from its purpose.

The Apostles were never given the authority to command people to disregard God. If this interpretation were right, then you have the Apostles commanding the Gentiles to do just that. Hear the Law, but don't do it. That would be heresy. There is no "run in" period with sin.

OTOH, if the Apostles were continuing with the normative Jewish halacha of both then and now, then they are not guilty of heresy, but rather are consistant with the Orthodox Jewish understanding of the relationship between Gentiles and the Law. They're telling the Gentiles they don't have to convert and keep the whole Torah (all 613 commandments) to be Christians, but rather, follow the Law of Christ and in addition, please don't offend the Jewish brothers by keeping these certain rules. This is a typical rabbinic approach. The other interpretation is completely without precedent or historic witness.

Clearly, this letter relates to the doctrine of offence- that is, not to offend the weaker brother, in this case, Jewish brethren.

(Then of course there is the "other" interpretation- that Gentiles weren't attending synagogue anyway, and the reference to the synagogues reading Moses was about unbelieving Jews still living under the Law. This is a weak interpretation, I think)
 
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Heber

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How many times do we have to repeat the same old stuff on this forum?

Unitl we get a database in the sticky listed by subject - now there's a thought! Should be able to do it though with modern computer systems. Any joy on this Mods, bearing mind all fora posters might want it!
 
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MikhaelDavid

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Contra,


I was trying to list all possible interpretations of Acts 15 in my post. Both the "No other burden clause", and the "It's ceremonial law" clause. Sadly I have even heard of orthodox Reformed Baptist, who I know, use the "No other burden clause" but of course the Reformed Baptist are going through many issues right now due to Frame, Keller, Driscoll, and others.

Actually Reformed people, whether Paedo or Credo, do take prescription of doctrine from historical books like the Book of Acts, i.e. Acts 15 council, a system of presbyterianism meeting in presbytery. Of course most modern Presbyterians are not familiar enough with presbyterianism to know that presbyterianism is a continuation of the Sanhedrin model set up on Mount Sinai. And of course Reformed Baptist take their entire polity from the Book of Acts as a doctrinal practice.

Yes, I do ask people all the time about Acts 15, both in the PCA, OPC, Reformed Covenanters and Reformed Baptist and the two main arguments I get is what I listed above, It's ceremonial law (which it is not) clause or "No greater burden" clause. And of course I read all the commentaries on Acts 15 that try to use the "It's ceremonial law" clause, Calvin, Henry, Poolh, Gill, Ryle, etc.

Anyway, I just though I would clarify..

Michael




No one
believes that. Not one person I have ever met, nor any church that I have ever encountered believes that the sum of Christian Law is to be taken from the Jerusalem Council, let alone from the historical book of the NT, which gives description of history, not prescription of doctrine.

What is the point of making a post addressing theology nobody believes? This is on a borderline somewhere between building a strawman argument and putting words in the mouth of others.

Have you ever asked anyone about the orthodox understanding of this passage?
 
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Heber

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Contra,


I was trying to list all possible interpretations of Acts 15 in my post. Both the "No other burden clause", and the "It's ceremonial law" clause. Sadly I have even heard of orthodox Reformed Baptist, who I know, use the "No other burden clause" but of course the Reformed Baptist are going through many issues right now due to Frame, Keller, Driscoll, and others.

Actually Reformed people, whether Paedo or Credo, do take prescription of doctrine from historical books like the Book of Acts, i.e. Acts 15 council, a system of presbyterianism meeting in presbytery. Of course most modern Presbyterians are not familiar enough with presbyterianism to know that presbyterianism is a continuation of the Sanhedrin model set up on Mount Sinai. And of course Reformed Baptist take their entire polity from the Book of Acts as a doctrinal practice.

Yes, I do ask people all the time about Acts 15, both in the PCA, OPC, Reformed Covenanters and Reformed Baptist and the two main arguments I get is what I listed above, It's ceremonial law (which it is not) clause or "No greater burden" clause. And of course I read all the commentaries on Acts 15 that try to use the "It's ceremonial law" clause, Calvin, Henry, Poolh, Gill, Ryle, etc.

Anyway, I just though I would clarify..

Michael

To what extent have you sourced these views from European Reformed / Presbyterian churches / church members? Sounds like a reflection of USA thinking?
 
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MikhaelDavid

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Heber,

It is mostly a reflection of American Reformed Thoughts though I have asked ministers and lay people in churches of Scotland and Ireland including the Free Church of Scotland, Free Church of Scotland Continuing, Free Church of Northern Ireland (Paisley's Group), etc, A Few Reformed Baptist churches in the England...

Michael




To what extent have you sourced these views from European Reformed / Presbyterian churches / church members? Sounds like a reflection of USA thinking?
 
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visionary

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The Apostles were never given the authority to command people to disregard God. If this interpretation were right, then you have the Apostles commanding the Gentiles to do just that. Hear the Law, but don't do it.
Nowhere in my statement did I state the apostles were giving the gentiles the right to disregard God's Law. The whole purpose for coming to the synagogue was to learn and do.. just as their Jewish brethren were.
 
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visionary

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How many times do we have to repeat the same old stuff on this forum?
For every day that someone new comes to learn, this is the synagogue on the CF forum to teach the Law of Moses and its harmony with Yeshua and its spiritual and real application in their lives.:clap:
 
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