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Our spirit - what is it? Eternal, our emotions

Discussion in 'Salvation (Soteriology)' started by LightLoveHope, Aug 22, 2019.

  1. LightLoveHope

    LightLoveHope Jesus leads us to life

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    God commanded us to love Him with things we could affect

    29 But if from there you seek the LORD your God, you will find him if you look for him with all your heart and with all your soul.
    Deut 4

    5 Love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength
    Deut 6

    30 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.'
    Mark 12

    24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth
    John 4

    23 May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
    1 Thess 5

    It strikes me we are not made spirit beings, we have a spiritual birth in Christ, we are a new creation, but we are not spirit beings though born of the Holy Spirit.

    Our spirit appears to be our emotional state. In good spirits, a spirit of joy, a spirit of fear etc.

    11 "Therefore I will not keep silent; I will speak out in the anguish of my spirit, I will complain in the bitterness of my soul."
    Job 7

    So when we are born again, our new creation is reflected in our hearts, soul and minds with the strength to more forward in obedience to Christ through the cross.
     
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  2. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Paul says we are body, soul and spirit. Sometimes the bible uses soul and spirit interchangeably. So it's hard to pin the differences down. Jesus has a Spirit (God) in place of the human spirit, and a soul and a body.

    I believe our spirit died in Adam leaving only our soul and body. And the soul serves the body's cravings. In this case the soul is the mind. In the new birth, God raises our spirit from the dead in which case we become sensitive to God. The Holy Spirit is with us and bearing witness with our spirit, faith develops. Since Pentecost all believers have the Holy Spirit in them and the fullness of the Spirit comes through repentance and holy living. As a side note; the Baptism with the Holy Spirit provided the Apostles with signs and wonders that confirmed their role in establishing the New Covenant.
     
  3. Iovan

    Iovan New Member

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    Our spirit is our strength.
     
  4. LightLoveHope

    LightLoveHope Jesus leads us to life

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    I had an interesting problem within trying to pin down what is our spirit.

    11 The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.
    1 Cor 2

    We are given the Holy Spirit from God to dwell in our hearts.
    I agree we are dead to God in Adam until we repent and gain forgiveness and communion.
    And it does appear soul and spirit are used interchangeably, which I have found confusing.

    It was this idea that we could become an immortal spirit that is our true identity seems to
    have no biblical foundation.

    It struck me we are commanded to love God with our souls, hearts and minds with all
    our strength which implies we have control over these things. I am not sure we ever
    have control of our spirit, which suggests to me it is more a reflection of who we are
    rather than our identity which our soul and heart definitely are.
    Interestingly those who hold with an immortal spirit disown their own hearts as not
    part of them, rather part of the flesh. Often this is linked to the idea sin is not their
    responsibility, just a product of being a sinner, which Jesus resolved, without the
    need to change ones behaviour. So often the notion to change ones mind is used
    as repentance, not actually to stop doing evil and do good, following the way of
    Christ. God bless you
     
  5. LightLoveHope

    LightLoveHope Jesus leads us to life

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    The Holy Spirit.

    If Jesus was indwelt by the Holy Spirit, what was Jesus's spirit?
     
  6. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Thanks for sharing. This is something I practice every day. It shows the battle between flesh and spirit.

    Here's my approach to walking in the Spirit.

    “Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;” (2 Corinthians 10:5) (KJV 1900)

    We censor every impure thought or imagination. And change the channel in our thinking on any thought that does not conform to obedience to Christ.

    And we replace it with:

    “Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.” (Philippians 4:8)

    Knowing Jesus is God and God is love. So Jesus is lord of our lives when love rules our thoughts and actions.
     
  7. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    “For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,” Colossians 2:9 (NASB95)

    Jesus Christ the man is the eternal Trinity with a fully human and fully divine nature. He spoke in the Person of the eternal Son. But he did not have a human spirit.
    Chalcedonian Creed (A.D. 451)
    This creed was adopted at the Fourth Ecumenical Council, held at Chalcedon, located in what is now Turkey, in 451, as a response to certain heretical views concerning the nature of Christ. It established the orthodox view that Christ has two natures (human and divine) that are unified in one person.

    "We, then, following the holy Fathers, all with one consent, teach men to confess one and the same Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, the same perfect in Godhead and also perfect in manhood; truly God and truly man, of a reasonable [rational] soul and body; consubstantial [co-essential] with the Father according to the Godhead, and consubstantial with us according to the Manhood; in all things like unto us, without sin; begotten before all ages of the Father according to the Godhead, and in these latter days, for us and for our salvation, born of the Virgin Mary, the Mother of God, according to the Manhood; one and the same Christ, Son, Lord, only begotten, to be acknowledged in two natures, inconfusedly, unchangeably, indivisibly, inseparably; the distinction of natures being by no means taken away by the union, but rather the property of each nature being preserved, and concurring in one Person and one Subsistence, not parted or divided into two persons, but one and the same Son, and only begotten, God the Word, the Lord Jesus Christ; as the prophets from the beginning [have declared] concerning Him, and the Lord Jesus Christ Himself has taught us, and the Creed of the holy Fathers has handed down to us.

    Chalcedonian Creed (A.D. 451) | CARM.org
     
  8. LightLoveHope

    LightLoveHope Jesus leads us to life

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    Thanks for this.
    In my mind I have Jesus, a man, with His spirit the Holy Spirit.
    Now the Holy Spirit, in a sense is also the Father, yet separate from Him.

    In another sense Jesus is Gods word, His creative command in human form.

    We talk of evil spirits, but not evil souls. We say evil spirits are fallen angels,
    but for us angels have bodies while evil spirits do not. And in the sense evil
    spirits are given a consciousness and often are related to ghosts, and spiritualism.

    What comes over to me, is we can probably get no further than this, but I use this
    as instructive that God expects us to love Him with our souls, hearts and minds, which
    I can do. And I rejoice in the possible, and leave the undefined, undefined. God bless you
     
  9. LightLoveHope

    LightLoveHope Jesus leads us to life

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    Amen

    We are called to be active participants in our walk and in our standing in Christ.
    This is so clear from Pauls sharing to struggling churches and believers, I find it
    hard to see how those born of the Holy Spirit, willing to follow and listen to Jesus
    could miss this completely. It strikes me, that many who claim to know God, must
    not, because repentance and faith with obedience is our bed rock of discipleship, yet
    some seem to regard this as wrong.

    I used to think these brethren were brothers, but they do not want to be, and suggest
    we do not know Christ and are under law and not grace. I had hoped through going
    through scripture and its authority would change things, but rather they seem even more
    embedded in their ideas. I was struck by the idea a false prophet cannot become a good
    tree, and will just be burnt. I have become more convinced of this after years of
    interaction which appear to have progressed no where, except I have grown greatly in
    my appreciation of the Lord. God bless you
     
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  10. Aussie Pete

    Aussie Pete Active Member Supporter

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    Watchman Nee has a very helpful section on the spirit of man. It's helped me enormously.
    Some points that I found helpful:

    God is Spirit so it would be amazing if we did not have a spirit, as we are made in his image.
    Death is not the end of existence. Adam and Eve died but they still existed. They still had a spirit but it was dead to God.
    The most obvious faculty of the spirit is the conscience. Animals don't have a conscience. Another, often less understood faculty is intuition. Unbelievers have this, but it is generally suppressed by the world system through education
    If you want to see intuition at work, young children often exercise it. Logic and reason is undeveloped in a child, so intuition has more chance to operate
    Being born again means that the spirit of man becomes alive to God once more. Intuition and conscience should be our guides once more. It's not easy to break the habit of depending on logic and reason. So we are being trained through various means and experiences.
    Logic and reason are easily mislead, deceived and subject to misinterpretation. "There is a way that seems right to a man....." We know where that gets us.
    The mind should serve the spirit. God speaks to us in the spirit man and the mind is intended to understand what God is saying. The unrenewed mind often argues against the leading in the spirit. Hence the need for a renewed mind.

    The Word of God is what God uses to "divide" soul and spirit. In new believers, the soul usually dominates. We need our spirit man to be developed and strengthened. We need the Bible to keep us on track because we can get confused and end up on the wrong track,

    Real victory is ours when we live from the spirit. I'd never go back to my old ways because they just got me in trouble!
     
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  11. LightLoveHope

    LightLoveHope Jesus leads us to life

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    You make a claim here "Adam and Eve died but they still existed."
    Scripture refers to peoples souls not their spirits existing.

    51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed--
    52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.
    53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality
    1 Cor 15

    9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained.
    Rev 6

    26 What good will it be for a man if he gains the whole world, yet forfeits his soul? Or what can a man give in exchange for his soul?
    Matt 16

    A man has a body and a soul. No where in scripture is there such a thing as a spirit man.

    Unfortunately new age religion is full of spirit men, who wander around like ghosts.
    Again this is not a biblical concept. So if you build a theology around a non-biblical
    idea you will end up with non-biblical implications which I have seen in lots of
    theology that people believe and follow.
     
  12. Prodigal Son returns

    Prodigal Son returns Newbie

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    Cool I had some questions and thoughts about this topic.
    Thank you LightLoveHope for your information. The soul and spirit are not the same thing after all.
    I did some research and found that humans have a soul and a spirit.

    Here are some passages that tell us that humans have a spirit:
    "As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deed is dead" James 2:26 (NIV)
    "And the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it" Ecclesiastes 12:7 (NIV)
    "If it were his intention and he withdrew his spirit" Job 34:14 (NIV)

    Bible writers used the Hebrew word ruʹach when writing about the spirit but in the Bible this word is also sometimes translated as "breath". Here are some passages with "breath" in it.
    "You take away their spirit, they expire and return to the dust" Psalm 104:29 (NASB) (Other versions use the word breath instead of spirit.)
    "Every creature that has the breath of life in it" Genesis 6:17 (NIV)
    "Pairs of all creatures that have the breath of life in them came to Noah" Genesis 7:15 (NIV)
    "Everything on dry land that had the breath of life in it's nostrils died" Genesis 7:22 (NIV)

    It is our spirit that leaves our body and gets judged.
    Soul basically refers to people, animals, or the life that a person or an animal has.
    Nowhere in the Bible are the terms “immortal” or “everlasting” linked with the word “soul.” Instead, the Scriptures state that a soul is mortal, meaning that it dies. (Ezekiel 18:4,20) Therefore, the Bible calls someone who has died simply a “dead soul.”
     
  13. Prodigal Son returns

    Prodigal Son returns Newbie

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    Ok so what exactly is a human spirit? It's a question that is perhaps beyond the comprehension of our human minds and will remain somewhat of a mystery to man.

    They say sleep is the cousin of death and the bible does in fact refer to death as sleep sometimes. Our minds have different stages of consciousness but what is this consciousness that doesn't sleep? The one that stays up all night creating its own reality that we call dreams while the rest of our body shuts down to recharge. Could that be our spirit? A state of consciousness that science cannot properly explain, that leaves our body after death. Science has figured out every part of the human body except our brains, perhaps within our minds lies our spirit. It's just a thought anyway.

    And now to complicate things even more what is the Holy Spirit???
     
  14. LightLoveHope

    LightLoveHope Jesus leads us to life

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    Thanks Prodigal.

    The soul cannot die as you describe because Jesus says this

    28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
    Matt 10

    The verses you quote appear to be saying the spirit is the spark of life in a human
    body. At death the spark goes.

    The soul will be given a new body, to be judged and then dwell with the Father or
    be destroyed in the lake of fire.

    Interestingly before the great white throne what does it say

    12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books.
    Rev 20

    The picture here is of people with bodies and souls standing before the throne to be judged.
    Equally some believe christians will not be judged, but actually scripture says we all will be.

    11 It is written: "'As surely as I live,' says the Lord, 'every knee will bow before me; every tongue will confess to God.'"
    12 So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God.
    Rom 14

    This accounting is not as a spirit or a soul, but as a physical person made whole.
     
  15. LightLoveHope

    LightLoveHope Jesus leads us to life

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    The Holy Spirit appears to be Gods presence throughout creation. He can simultaneously
    indwell people and communion with the Lord is established. In a sense Jesus and the Father
    cannot do this.

    I once had a thought that our very physical brain connections are recorded and restored in
    our new resurrected bodies. One could argue this matrix is our soul, our essence. I think it
    is impossible to separate us from our bodies and its limitations which is why we need a
    resurrected body and will not exist as etherial souls who have no form.

    This is partly why I dislike gnostic ideas that you can separate our identity from our physicality
    when everything in our lives says the opposite. For me also it explains why we are responsible
    for our behaviour because we are a total physical being with mind, body, soul and spirit.
    But as I pointed out God does not command our spirits to do anything, so it implies to me
    spirit is a passive entity that reflects the rest rather than is us.
     
  16. Prodigal Son returns

    Prodigal Son returns Newbie

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    Thanks LightLoveHope.
    I've got to apologize as the info I posted was in fact from a Jehovah Witness website, LoL.
    I didn't notice it.

    There are some who claim the spirit and the soul is the same thing but my most reliable sources basically confirm what you are saying. We are all souls with bodies. The body dies but it's the soul that lives forever. I understand your view that we get new bodies, perhaps we do.

    I've cut and pasted the following from a favorite app/website called "got questions"
    "The human spirit gives us a consciousness of self and other remarkable, though limited, “God-like” qualities. The human spirit includes our intellect, emotions, fears, passions, and creativity. It is this spirit that provides us the unique ability to comprehend and understand.
    Therefore, man is able to think, feel, love, design, create, and enjoy music, humor, and art. And it is because of the human spirit that we have a “free will” that no other creature on earth has."


    That is all much clearer to me now. It gives me a new perspective on Holy Spirit and Spiritual Warfare.
    Cheers for walking me through it LightLoveHope
     
  17. LightLoveHope

    LightLoveHope Jesus leads us to life

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    Hi Prodigal,

    It is Pauls proposition we are changed from the mortal to the immortal body.
    He suggestes this immortal body will also be spiritual body

    42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable;
    43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power;
    44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.
    1 cor 15

    So the imperishable body, immortal and spiritual all in one.
    So I am not saying this is my idea, but rather what Paul is saying.

    And this is my cornerstone to go back to scripture and see the foundations.
    It is interesting the JW's believe the spirit and soul is the same thing, because
    this does change things a bit.
     
  18. Prodigal Son returns

    Prodigal Son returns Newbie

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    Confirmed. Our soul gets a fresh body after death.

    The JWs incorrectly believe the soul dies and it's the spirit that is judged.

    So our spirit is basically our minds and it's the soul that lives forever more
     
  19. crossnote

    crossnote Berean Supporter

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    Just because man's spirit is dead in sins and trespasses, doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.

    Genesis 2:7
    Then the Lord God formed man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath or spirit of life, and man became a living being. (Amp)
     
  20. Prodigal Son returns

    Prodigal Son returns Newbie

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    I agree. None of us suggested that man's spirit doesn't exist.
    We were defining spirit and soul
     
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