Our responsibility....please sign this

[rainbowprism]

I don't care if you don't want to sign the petition Sharp for those reasons...but DO SOMETHING besides agreeing the your have moral conviction about this emergency. This isn't a cause, 6500 people dying a day is an EMERGENCY.

 

[inquisitor_11]

"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'
"Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'
"The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'
"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'
"They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'
"He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'
"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

 

[rainbowprism]

Amen!!!

 

[Treasure the Questions]

I've got in mind a story from the gospels about the disciples complaining that someone who wasn't part of their group was casting demons out in Jesus' name, and Jesus didn't mind one bit.

I don't think he minds who participates in his work of feeding the poor, healing the sick and reducing oppression and injustice either. I don't think we should let "principles" get in the way of this good work.

Karin

 

[Sharp]

I don't care if you don't want to sign the petition Sharp for those reasons...but DO SOMETHING besides agreeing the your have moral conviction about this emergency. This isn't a cause, 6500 people dying a day is an EMERGENCY.

Yes, we must do something. It is clear we do have similar heart concerns. I support some good causes. I am not trying to raise funds here, but one that I urge you to consider is Samaritan's Purse. It was founded by the son of Billy Graham, is Biblical sound, has branches in the UK, Germany, Ireland, Canada, Australia and the Netherlands so you can check it out yourself, and does both benevelent and other work.

Here is a website for you:
http://www.samaritanspurse.org/home.asp with links to other nation's home sites. http://www.samaritanspurse.uk.com/ is the link to the UK site.

Samaritan’s Purse bases its ministry on the following statement of faith:

• We believe the Bible to be the inspired, the only infallible, authoritative Word of God. II Timothy 3:15-17.
• We believe that there is one God, eternally existent in three persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Matthew 28:19; Ephesians 4:4-6.
• We believe in the deity of our Lord Jesus Christ, in His virgin birth, in His sinless life, in His miracles, in His vicarious and atoning death through His shed blood, in His bodily resurrection, in His ascension to the right hand of the Father, and in His personal return in power and glory. John 1:1-4; Matthew 1:23; Philippians 2:5-11; Hebrews 1:1-4 & 4:15; Acts 1:11 & 2:22-24; I Corinthians 15:3-4.
• We believe that, for the salvation of lost and sinful man, repentance of sin and faith in Jesus Christ results in regeneration by the Holy Spirit and that Jesus Christ is the only way of salvation. Titus 3:4-7; Luke 24:46-47; Ephesians 2:8-9; John 14:6; Acts 4:12.
• We believe in the present ministry of the Holy Spirit whose indwelling enables the Christian to live a godly life. Galatians 5:16-18; Romans 8:9.
• We believe in the resurrection of both the saved and the lost; the saved unto the resurrection of eternal life and the lost unto the resurrection of damnation and eternal punishment. Revelation 20:11-15; I Corinthians 15:51-57.
• We believe in the spiritual unity of believers in our Lord Jesus Christ and that all true believers are members of His body, the Church. Ephesians 1:22-23; I Corinthians 12:12, 27.
• We believe that the ministry of evangelism is a responsibility of both the church and each Christian. Romans 10:9-15; Acts 1:8; Matthew 28:18-20; I Peter 3:15.

http://www.samaritanspurse.org/index.asp?section=About+Us&subsection=Statement+Of+Faith

They have regular prayer letters, and personal involvement opportunities. I hope you will like it.

 

[Sharp]

This is an absolute lie, and you should know it if you know ANYTHING about the current shape of the AIDS crisis. AIDS is certainly not only a homosexual disease in America - huge numbers of heterosexuals are also suffering from it. HIV and AIDS have NEVER, here or anywhere else, been only a disease of homosexuals.

I can understand your emotional reaction, and I forgive and bear you no ill. The mainline media deceives a lot of people about the extent and composition of the AIDS crisis. I respectfully submit that my statement is correct. In the USA the homosexual community is the vast majority of AIDS and HIV cases. I am not sure how huge their majority percentage is, but it is a majority and then some.

My concern is that we don't allow another generation to be lost to HIV needlessly. Abstinance works and the success of the Ugandan program is splendid and optimistic proof.

Besides, why should the sexuality of someone suffering from such a horrible disease matter? Are heterosexuals somehow more worthy of our care and attention?

Ofcourse no one will withhold medical care to homosexual AIDS patients. We loving Christians treat all no matter how they got it. My concern is that politically correct leftwing militants don't censor our free speech to tell the truth about how AIDS can be prevented.

Please, Sharp, if you're only going to cast disparagement on Christians actively seeking to alleviate suffering in the world, then start your own thread and leave this one alone.

Since helping stop the spread of AIDS/HIV has already been raised on this thread as part of a relevant discussion, I see no reason not to continue that discussion.

The most kind, loving and sympathetic deed anyone can do to prevent the spread of AIDS is to educate our youth in the Ugandan Plan. It was created by born-again Christians and based upon the Bible. It reduced the incidence of new AIDS cases by a whopping 80%.

If you'd like more information, I can provide it.

 

[ahab]

Hi Treasure the Questions,

I've got in mind a story from the gospels about the disciples complaining that someone who wasn't part of their group was casting demons out in Jesus' name, and Jesus didn't mind one bit.

I don't think he minds who participates in his work of feeding the poor, healing the sick and reducing oppression and injustice either. I don't think we should let "principles" get in the way of this good work.

I dont think that was quite the point. I believe the examples you are referring to are in Mark 9 and Luke 9.
Luke 9:49 "Master," said John, "we saw a man driving out demons in your name and we tried to stop him, because he is not one of us." "Do not stop him," Jesus said, "for whoever is not against you is for.
And Mark 9:38 "Teacher," said John, "we saw a man driving out demons in your name and we told him to stop, because he was not one of us." "Do not stop him," Jesus said. "No one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me, for whoever is not against us is for us. I tell you the truth, anyone who gives you a cup of water in my name because you belong to Christ will certainly not lose his reward.
Both specifically refer to those who are in Christ and in the name of Jesus, which is crucially I would suggest, different from those who arent and don’t.

 

[Treasure the Questions]

Both specifically refer to those who are in Christ and in the name of Jesus, which is crucially I would suggest, different from those who arent and don’t.

I appreciate that, but who is acting on behalf of Chrsit, the one who speaks out against injustice even if he's not sure Jesus was the Son of God, or the person who can quote chapter and verse on why Jesus was the Son of God, but lets his principles stop him from speaking out?

I think the examples are indeed very similar.

Karin

 

[ahab]

I appreciate that, but who is acting on behalf of Chrsit, the one who speaks out against injustice even if he's not sure Jesus was the Son of God, or the person who can quote chapter and verse on why Jesus was the Son of God, but lets his principles stop him from speaking out?

Sorry but I think your 'rough idea' of scripture is actually contrary to what Jesus has been recorded as saying to His disciples.

Firstly the disciples did say that these others were doing the works in Jesus name and Jesus says anyone who does these things in His name. Nor is this about quoting Jesus is the son of God, but crucially what is justice and principle is what is revealed as God's will and purpose by Jesus.

 

[Treasure the Questions]

We shall have to agree to differ, ahab, as I'm sure we could each find at least a dozen Bible scholars and theologians to back us both up if we looked. It's all a matter of how you interpret the Bible, and experience shows we come at it from different angles.

K

 

[rainbowprism]

Inquistor's post was dead on. We are called to take care of the least, the last and the lost. And we will have to answer for our lack of action if we don't do anything. If you just use the church and the name of the Lord for your religiosity's sake...then you are a far cry from the essence of Christian discipleship.

 

[Treasure the Questions]

Agreed, Rainbow.

 

[rainbowprism]

Agreed, Rainbow.

:

thumbsup:

 

[rainbowprism]

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Treasure the Questions again." Well, what if I don't want to? I woulda repped you but the CF police said no.

 

[oldrooster]

I was happy to sign it.....

 

[ahab]

Hi Treasure the Questions,

I understand that we acknowledge we differ, and that there are theologians and scholars we can quote but quoting different theologians isn’t us debating on what we believe.

Also we can expect to interpret passages differently, but you brought up the scripture as reference and I am pointing out some specifics that may undermine it which you dont seem to want to address.
These others were recognised as doing what Jesus taught and required and were doing it in the way Jesus taught, but they were doing it in Jesus name, not in the name of something else like we read about in incidents elsewhere. Why therefore do you think Jesus mentions that they were operating in His name and under His authority?

 

[Treasure the Questions]

It's simple, ahab, I see a principle, which applies in both cases, you don't because you interpret it more literally than I do. We could try and debate why each of us is right, but I doubt we'll get anywhere, do you?

Karin

 

[ahab]

Hi rainbowprism,

Inquistor's post was dead on. We are called to take care of the least, the last and the lost. And we will have to answer for our lack of action if we don't do anything. If you just use the church and the name of the Lord for your religiosity's sake...then you are a far cry from the essence of Christian discipleship.

I guess Inquisitor’s post must have been dead on as it was the scripture in Matthew 25.
We agreed I think that Jesus requires us to take care of the least and the lost as this is recorded as what he commands a number of times. I cant see the point of keeping posting stuff we agreed on. However if you think we will be judged to eternal condemnation just on our lack of works as goats in Matthew 25 says then that is surely salvation by works?
There is more to Christian discipleship than just care of the least and the lost, many who dont believe in Jesus do that unselfishly. What you consider religiousity is actually seems to be all that Jesus taught, some of which you may be missing

 

[rainbowprism]

Um Ahab...you must have misunderstood what I mean by religiousity. I didn't mean in a good way, I don't think anyone can truly be a follower of Christ if all they focus on is themselves and thier spiritual walk--something many are guilty of. Ceremonies and pomp for ones own sake is religions. I have problems with that. What I have is relationships.

I have never said salvation is by works. Salvation is a gift from God that happens when you confess he is Lord. But a faith that doesn't bring a heart change is worthless.

 

[rainbowprism]

And for the record, many (not all) in churches seem to like to skip over that verse in Matthew and those like it. They focus incularly. That's why the church is considered to be a sub-culture from the mainstream and has difficulty being relevant in that area...something I don't know completley how to fix but at least I am aware of it and am trying to do something. But there are over 2,310 verses on being the voice for the people without voices and caring for the poor and sick. I think it is a safe bet that Jesus values what we do with those people...and I do so to honor Him, because my relationship with him is of importance to me and because He has burderned my heart to do so.

The Screwtape Letters by CS Lewis verbalizes my point better. Evil is not nesscarily lurking in dens on inequities and dark places. Evil is a lot more subtle. If the enemy can lull us into being completely irrelevant or focus on ourselves exclusively...that would be his advantage and potentially more insidious and undermining.