Our hypocrisy as a faith group

[Aaron Rich]

Why is forever truly forever when it comes to hell, but it's suddenly isn't forever when it comes to God's commandments?

We strive to tell people where they're going if they don't accept Jesus as their savior and in the same breath we will tell them that the "law was nailed to the cross".

I think we (speaking in general terms as a wider faith group) - I think we're following a faith of convenience and not really follow what the Bible is teaching. "My pastor says..." no longer cuts it and I get so depressed to see people that are "advanced" in their faith willingly falling prey to such hypocrisy.

Saying this sarcastically - Is there a guidebook to explain when forever really means forever to God?

 

[ByTheSpirit]

We say the law was nailed to the cross because the scriptures say the law was nailed to the cross... and with the death of Jesus a new covenant was enacted.

 

[Aaron Rich]

We say the law was nailed to the cross because the scriptures say the law was nailed to the cross... and with the death of Jesus a new covenant was enacted.

My search isn't turning anything up. I see Col 2:14 which is saying the "record of debt" was nailed to the cross. Can you please direct me to the text reference so I may read where it says the "law" was nailed to the cross? I want to read everything around it to see what we (as a faith group) are taking out of context.

 

[inquiring mind]

Saying this sarcastically - Is there a guidebook to explain when forever really means forever to God?

We have a book of instruction, the Bible, but no guidebook as you suggest that explains God’s judgment and ways:

Romans 11:33
“O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!”

Isaiah 55:8
“For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord.”

 

[Aaron Rich]

We have a book of instruction, the Bible, but no guidebook as you suggest that explains God’s judgment and ways:

Romans 11:33
“O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!”

Isaiah 55:8
“For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord.”

I agree! HIS WAYS are outlined from Genesis to Revelation and yet we decide HIS WAYS changed when he specifically says they won't. #faithofconvenience

 

[SkyWriting]

Why is forever truly forever when it comes to hell, but it's suddenly isn't forever when it comes to God's commandments?

We strive to tell people where they're going if they don't accept Jesus as their savior and in the same breath we will tell them that the "law was nailed to the cross".

I think we (speaking in general terms as a wider faith group) - I think we're following a faith of convenience and not really follow what the Bible is teaching. "My pastor says..." no longer cuts it and I get so depressed to see people that are "advanced" in their faith willingly falling prey to such hypocrisy.

Saying this sarcastically - Is there a guidebook to explain when forever really means forever to God?

There is a logic guide. Time is a gift offered to sinners to "delay" judgment.
"The wages of sin is death." and by all standards of decency, one sin and your dead.

God is Spirit. So God does not experience time. We acknowledge this and use the
best word we can come up with, "Forever."

Man and his troubles are temporary. God has no troubles and is Forever. You can
claim that you will never sin, but doing so, you've already lied.

Fortunately, Jesus loves us and forgives all sins.

 

[com7fy8]

Colossians 2:14 is said to mean the Law has been nailed to the cross.

And Hebrews 7:22 and 8:6 show me that our covenant with Jesus is not only new but "better".

But Jesus fulfills the Law. In Jesus we discover the really right meaning. The Law was intended to bring us to Jesus. Galatians 3:23-25

 

[Neogaia777]

We say the law was nailed to the cross because the scriptures say the law was nailed to the cross... and with the death of Jesus a new covenant was enacted.

Matthew 5:17-18, Jesus was the end and the fulfillment of the law talked about here...

And, it says "all", "ALL" will be fulfilled/accomplished/complete(d) to the one who fulfills the law...


Matthew 5:19-20, Says that anyone promoting or teaching breaking of the law covenant, will not be great and may not even make it into the kingdom of God...

But does this include ceremonial laws, or dietary laws, or laws that may not even apply anymore, were never supposed to teach or promote, breaking those laws, at all, or what...?

God Bless!

 

[Shempster]

It means that the old law, the Torah, was nailed to the cross. That means that the old law itself is subject to the new law associated with the cross. The law that says to Love God with all your heart soul, mind and strength and love your neighbor as yourself. This law trumps the old one.....no....it fulfills it.

 

[Soyeong]

We say the law was nailed to the cross because the scriptures say the law was nailed to the cross... and with the death of Jesus a new covenant was enacted.

Crosses were never used as a means of disposing of outdated laws, but rather what was written on crosses were the charges against the person being crucified (Matthew 27:37). This fits perfectly with the concept of the charges against us being nailed to his cross and with him dying to pay our penalty in our place, but does not fit at all with doing away with a set of holy, righteous, and good laws. God had no need to do away with his righteous standard, nor should we want Him to do away with something that is holy, righteous, and good (Romans 7:12). While it is true that we are under a New Covenant, we are still under the same God with the same eternal attributes, and with the same standard for how to live according to those attributes.

 

[Soyeong]

We have a book of instruction, the Bible, but no guidebook as you suggest that explains God’s judgment and ways:

Romans 11:33
“O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!”

Isaiah 55:8
“For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord.”

Deuteronomy 8:6 So you shall keep the commandments of the Lord your God by walking in his ways and by fearing him.

 

[Soyeong]

It means that the old law, the Torah, was nailed to the cross. That means that the old law itself is subject to the new law associated with the cross. The law that says to Love God with all your heart soul, mind and strength and love your neighbor as yourself. This law trumps the old one.....no....it fulfills it.

What was written on crosses were the charges against the person being crucified, not the laws themselves, so they didn't have to legislate new laws every time someone was crucified. So the charges against us were nailed to his cross and he died to pay our penalty in our place. He did not give himself to redeem us from all Lawlessness so that we could be free to go back to being Lawless, but to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, which the Law instructs.

The Mosaic Law says to love the lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength (Deuteronomy 6:5) and to love your neighbor as yourself (Leviticus 19:18), so how can it be trumped by the same law?

 

[Soyeong]

Matthew 5:17-18, Jesus was the end and the fulfillment of the law talked about here...

And, it says "all", "ALL" will be fulfilled/accomplished/complete(d) to the one who fulfills the law...


Matthew 5:19-20, Says that anyone promoting or teaching breaking of the law covenant, will not be great and may not even make it into the kingdom of God...

But does this include ceremonial laws, or dietary laws, or laws that may not even apply anymore, were never supposed to teach or promote, breaking those laws, at all, or what...?

God Bless!

I don't see how his statement provides any room to exempt any laws.

 

[Soyeong]

Colossians 2:14 is said to mean the Law has been nailed to the cross.

The ordinances against us were nailed to the cross, so the charges against us were nailed to his cross and he died to pay the penalty for our sins in our place. In Titus 2:14, it does not say that he gave himself to redeem us from the Law, but to redeem us from all Lawlessness.

And Hebrews 7:22 and 8:6 show me that our covenant with Jesus is not only new but "better".

Indeed, we are under a better covenant with a superior mediator with superior promises, but it doesn't say anything about following superior laws because that would involve following a superior God with a superior standard of righteousness.

But Jesus fulfills the Law.

Pleroo: to fulfil, i.e. to cause God's will (as made known in the law) to be obeyed as it should be, and God's promises (given through the prophets) to receive fulfilment

In Matthew 5, Jesus said he came to fulfill the Law and then proceeded to fulfill it six times by causing God's will as made known in the Law to be obeyed as it should be. He fulfilled the Law in the same sense that Galatians 6:2 says bearing one another's burdens fulfills the Law of Christ and in the same sense that Romans 15:18-19 says that Paul fulfilled the Gospel, namely that he taught full obedience to it, not that he did away with it.

In Jesus we discover the really right meaning. The Law was intended to bring us to Jesus. Galatians 3:23-25

Indeed, the Law instructs us how to grow in a relationship with Jesus, so therefore we should obey it by grace through faith.

 

[Neogaia777]

I don't see how his statement provides any room to exempt any laws.

The one who fulfills it, the one it was made and designed for, come along and fulfills, earns the right to make a new one (covenant) having put an end to the old...

Jesus did "earn" everything, even though he didn't need to, He already had it, so that we do not have to any longer, which was a part of the Old Covenant... We are just to obey the New Covenant, which just so happens to be of such a design that it fulfills the old also, in the end (of it)...

God Bless!

 

[Soyeong]

The one who fulfills it, the one it was made and designed for, come along and fulfills, earns the right to make a new one (covenant) having put an end to the old...

Jesus did "earn" everything, even though he didn't need to, He already had it, so that we do not have to any longer, which was a part of the Old Covenant... We are just to obey the New Covenant, which just so happens to be of such a design that it fulfills the old also, in the end (of it)...

God Bless!

Pleroo: to fulfil, i.e. to cause God's will (as made known in the law) to be obeyed as it should be, and God's promises (given through the prophets) to receive fulfilment

In Matthew 5:17-19, Jesus said he came to fulfill the law, not to abolish it, said not the least part would disappear from the law until heaven and earth passed away and all is accomplished, gave a warning to those who would relax the least of the laws or to teach others to do the same, and then proceeded to fulfill the law six times by causing God's will as made known in the law to be obeyed as it should be. Jesus fulfilled the Law in the same sense as Galatians 6:2 says bearing one another's burdens fulfills the Law of Christ in that it is teaching the way to obey the Law of Christ as it should be, and in the same sense that Romans 15:18-19 says that Paul fulfilled the Gospel in that he taught full obedience to it in word and in deed as it should be, not that he did away with it. Jesus summarized the Law as being God's instructions for how to love Him and our neighbor (Matthew 22:36-40), so saying that he obeyed the Law so that we don't have to is like saying that he loved God and our neighbor so that we don't have to, but rather he did so in part so that we would have an example to follow, and we are told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22).

While it is true that we are under the New Covenant and not the Mosaic Covenant, we are nevertheless still under the same God, whose righteousness is eternal and unchanging (Psalms 119:142), which means that the way to act according to His righteousness is likewise eternal and unchanging (Psalms 119:160). If the way to to act according to God's righteousness changed when the Mosaic Law was given or changed when Christ came, then God's righteousness changed, but God's righteousness does not change. So while the New Covenant is based on better promises and has a superior mediator, it does not have superior laws because that would involve following a superior God with superior righteousness.