Our God The Consuming Fire

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FineLinen

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Our God is a consuming Fire

Fire Is A Beneficent Agent

How shallow is the common view of “fire” as only or chiefly a penal agent. Fire, in Scripture, is the element of…

“Life”…Isa. 4:5

“Purification”…Matt. 3:3

“Atonement”…Lev. 16:27

“Transformation”…2 Pet. 3:10

And never ever of preservation alive for purposes of anguish.

And the popular view selects precisely this latter use, never found in Scripture, and represents it as the sole end of God’s fiery judgments! If we take either the teaching of Scripture or of nature, we see that the dominant conception of fire is of a beneficent agent. Nature tells us that fire is a necessary condition of life; its mission is to sustain life; and to purify, even when it dissolves.

Extinguish the stores of fire in the universe, and you extinguish all being; universal death reigns. Most strikingly is this connection of fire and life shown in the facts of nutrition. For we actually burn in order to live; our food is the fuel; our bodies are furnaces; our nutrition is a process of combustion; we are, in fact, “aflame to the very tips of our fingers.” And so it is that round the fireside of life and work gather: when we think of home we speak of the family hearth.

Fire Is The Sign Of God’s Being

And what Nature teaches, Scripture enforces in no doubtful tone. It is significant to find the Great Source of life constantly associated with fire in the Bible.

Fire is the sign, not of God’s wrath, but of His being.

When God comes to Ezekiel there is a “fire unfolding itself” (Ezek. 1:4, 27) and “the appearance of fire.” (Ezek. 8:2)

Christ’s eyes are a flame of “fire” (Rev. 1:14).

The seven lamps of “fire” are the seven Spirits of God (Rev. 4:5). So a fiery stream is said “to go before God,” His throne is fiery flame, its wheels are burning fire (Daniel 7:9,10). His eyes are lamps of fire (Dan. 10:6); He is a wall of fire (Zeph. 2:5). At His touch the mountains smoke (Psl. 104:32). And God’s ministers are a flame of fire (Psl. 104:4…Heb. 1:7). It is not meant to deny that the Divine Fire chastises and destroys.

Purification, Not Ruin Is The Final Outcome

It is meant that purification, not ruin, is the final outcome of that fire from above, which consumes–call it, if you please, a paradox–in order that it may save. For if God is Love, then by what but by love can His fires be kindled? They are, in fact, the very flame of love; and so we have the key to the words, “Thy God is a consuming Fire,” and “Thy God is a merciful God” (Deut. 4:24-31). So God devours the earth with fire, in order that finally all may call upon the name of the Lord (Zeph. 3:8,9)–words full of significance.

So Isaiah tells us of God’s cleansing the daughters of Zion by the spirit of burning (Isa. 4:4)–suggestive words. And, so again, “By fire will the Lord plead with all flesh.” (Isa. 66:16) And Christ coming to save, comes to purify by “fire.” (Mal. 3:2).

Fire A Sign Of Favourable Response?

Let us note, also, how often “fire” is the sign of a favourable answer from God; when God appears to Moses at the Bush it is in “fire:” God answers Gideon by “fire;” and David by “fire.” (1 Chron. 21:26) Again, when He answers Elijah on Carmel, it is by “fire;” and in “fire” Elijah himself ascends to God. So God sends to Elisha, for aid, chariots and horses of “fire.” So when the Psalmist calls, God answers by “fire.” (Psl. 18:6-8)

And by the pillar of “fire” God gave His law. And in “fire” the great gift of the Holy Ghost descends at Pentecost."

Fire Is The Portion Of All

These words bring us to the New Testament. There we find that “fire,” like judgment, so far from being the sinner’s portion ONLY, is the portion of all. Like God’s judgment again, it is not future merely, but present; it is “already kindled,” always kindled: its object is not torment, but cleansing. The proof comes from the lips of our Lord Himself. “I am come to send fire on the earth,” for it is certain that He came as a Saviour. Thus, coming to save, Christ comes with fire, nay, with fire already kindled. He comes to baptize with the Holy Ghost, and with fire.

Therefore, it is that Christ teaches in solemn passage (usually misunderstood, Mark 9:43) that everyone shall be salted with fire. And so the “fire is to try every man’s work.” He whose work fails is saved (mark the word saved), not damned “so as by fire,” by consuming what is evil, saves and refines.

The antient tradition that represents Christ as saying, “He that is near Me is near fire,” expresses a vital truth. So Malachi, describes Christ as being in His saving work “like a refiner’s fire.” And so, echoing Deut 4:24-31, we are told that “our God is a consuming Fire,” i.e., God in His closest relation to us; God is Love; God is Spirit: but “Our God is a consuming Fire”–a consuming Fire, “by which the whole material substance of sin is destroyed.”

When, then, we read (Psl. 18:12) that “coals of fire” go before God, we think of the deeds of love which are “coals of fire” to our enemies. (Rom. 12:20) Thus, we who teach hope for all men, do not shrink from but accept, in their fullest meaning, these mysterious “fires” of gehenna, of which Christ speaks (kindled for purification), as in a special sense the sinner’s doom in the coming ages. But taught by the clearest statements of Scripture (confirmed as they are by many analogies of Nature), we see in these “fires” not a denial of, but a mode of fulfilling, the promise–

"Behold, I make all things new."

-Christ Triumphant-
 

vinsight4u

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lake of fire - How long will Satan be tormented there?
day and night - for ever and ever

This wicked angel will not be consumed to nothing.

In the OT, an angel could be right in a fire.
It was not consumed.

What you might try is to compare what is ahead for the saints -as in
future ages in contrast to what is shown as to the wicked.

His mercy is on those who love Him from generation to generation.

OT --men that died in their sin -died without mercy
 
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FineLinen

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God will be angry with the wicked for eternity.

Nonsense!

His anger is but for a moment, His favor is for life. —Psalm 30:5

God's holy wrath upon our sin
Does not eternal love deny;
It quickly fades as grace prevails
Because He sent His Son to die.

Gods hatred of sin does not diminish His love for the sinner.



Never

Not ever.

At no time.

Not in any degree.

Not under any condition.

Ceases

To come to an end.

To no longer continue.

To cease to exist/ come to an end.
 
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brinny

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Our God is a consuming Fire

Fire Is A Beneficent Agent

How shallow is the common view of “fire” as only or chiefly a penal agent. Fire, in Scripture, is the element of…

“Life”…Isa. 4:5

“Purification”…Matt. 3:3

“Atonement”…Lev. 16:27

“Transformation”…2 Pet. 3:10

And never ever of preservation alive for purposes of anguish.

And the popular view selects precisely this latter use, never found in Scripture, and represents it as the sole end of God’s fiery judgments! If we take either the teaching of Scripture or of nature, we see that the dominant conception of fire is of a beneficent agent. Nature tells us that fire is a necessary condition of life; its mission is to sustain life; and to purify, even when it dissolves.

Extinguish the stores of fire in the universe, and you extinguish all being; universal death reigns. Most strikingly is this connection of fire and life shown in the facts of nutrition. For we actually burn in order to live; our food is the fuel; our bodies are furnaces; our nutrition is a process of combustion; we are, in fact, “aflame to the very tips of our fingers.” And so it is that round the fireside of life and work gather: when we think of home we speak of the family hearth.

Fire Is The Sign Of God’s Being

And what Nature teaches, Scripture enforces in no doubtful tone. It is significant to find the Great Source of life constantly associated with fire in the Bible.

Fire is the sign, not of God’s wrath, but of His being.

When God comes to Ezekiel there is a “fire unfolding itself” (Ezek. 1:4, 27) and “the appearance of fire.” (Ezek. 8:2)

Christ’s eyes are a flame of “fire” (Rev. 1:14).

The seven lamps of “fire” are the seven Spirits of God (Rev. 4:5). So a fiery stream is said “to go before God,” His throne is fiery flame, its wheels are burning fire (Daniel 7:9,10). His eyes are lamps of fire (Dan. 10:6); He is a wall of fire (Zeph. 2:5). At His touch the mountains smoke (Psl. 104:32). And God’s ministers are a flame of fire (Psl. 104:4…Heb. 1:7). It is not meant to deny that the Divine Fire chastises and destroys.

Purification, Not Ruin Is The Final Outcome

It is meant that purification, not ruin, is the final outcome of that fire from above, which consumes–call it, if you please, a paradox–in order that it may save. For if God is Love, then by what but by love can His fires be kindled? They are, in fact, the very flame of love; and so we have the key to the words, “Thy God is a consuming Fire,” and “Thy God is a merciful God” (Deut. 4:24-31). So God devours the earth with fire, in order that finally all may call upon the name of the Lord (Zeph. 3:8,9)–words full of significance.

So Isaiah tells us of God’s cleansing the daughters of Zion by the spirit of burning (Isa. 4:4)–suggestive words. And, so again, “By fire will the Lord plead with all flesh.” (Isa. 66:16) And Christ coming to save, comes to purify by “fire.” (Mal. 3:2).

Fire A Sign Of Favourable Response?

Let us note, also, how often “fire” is the sign of a favourable answer from God; when God appears to Moses at the Bush it is in “fire:” God answers Gideon by “fire;” and David by “fire.” (1 Chron. 21:26) Again, when He answers Elijah on Carmel, it is by “fire;” and in “fire” Elijah himself ascends to God. So God sends to Elisha, for aid, chariots and horses of “fire.” So when the Psalmist calls, God answers by “fire.” (Psl. 18:6-8)

And by the pillar of “fire” God gave His law. And in “fire” the great gift of the Holy Ghost descends at Pentecost."

Fire Is The Portion Of All

These words bring us to the New Testament. There we find that “fire,” like judgment, so far from being the sinner’s portion ONLY, is the portion of all. Like God’s judgment again, it is not future merely, but present; it is “already kindled,” always kindled: its object is not torment, but cleansing. The proof comes from the lips of our Lord Himself. “I am come to send fire on the earth,” for it is certain that He came as a Saviour. Thus, coming to save, Christ comes with fire, nay, with fire already kindled. He comes to baptize with the Holy Ghost, and with fire.

Therefore, it is that Christ teaches in solemn passage (usually misunderstood, Mark 9:43) that everyone shall be salted with fire. And so the “fire is to try every man’s work.” He whose work fails is saved (mark the word saved), not damned “so as by fire,” by consuming what is evil, saves and refines.

The antient tradition that represents Christ as saying, “He that is near Me is near fire,” expresses a vital truth. So Malachi, describes Christ as being in His saving work “like a refiner’s fire.” And so, echoing Deut 4:24-31, we are told that “our God is a consuming Fire,” i.e., God in His closest relation to us; God is Love; God is Spirit: but “Our God is a consuming Fire”–a consuming Fire, “by which the whole material substance of sin is destroyed.”

When, then, we read (Psl. 18:12) that “coals of fire” go before God, we think of the deeds of love which are “coals of fire” to our enemies. (Rom. 12:20) Thus, we who teach hope for all men, do not shrink from but accept, in their fullest meaning, these mysterious “fires” of gehenna, of which Christ speaks (kindled for purification), as in a special sense the sinner’s doom in the coming ages. But taught by the clearest statements of Scripture (confirmed as they are by many analogies of Nature), we see in these “fires” not a denial of, but a mode of fulfilling, the promise–

"Behold, I make all things new."

-Christ Triumphant-
Fire Is A Beneficent Agent
The lake of fire isn't. We are to warn others to AVOID it and to seek forgiveness from Jesus Christ before it is too late.

We are not to leave them blind and deaf to what is to come if they do not repent.

The lake of fire is NOT a GOOD thing. It's a place Jesus Himself warned about.

"Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!" ~Isa 5:20

Praying.

Let it rain.
 
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brinny

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vinsight4u said:
God will be angry with the wicked for eternity.
Nonsense!

His anger is but for a moment, His favor is for life. —Psalm 30:5

God's holy wrath upon our sin
Does not eternal love deny;
It quickly fades as grace prevails
Because He sent His Son to die.

Gods hatred of sin does not diminish His love for the sinner.


Never=

1: not ever : at no time

2: not in any degree : not under any condition
His anger is but for a moment, His favor is for life. —Psalm 30:5
This is written for "believers", not the unrepentant who have rejected Jesus Christ.

Praying.

Let it rain.
 
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God will be angry with the wicked for eternity.

No He won't, because the wicked will be transformed by the power of heaven. For who can stand in the day of the Lord?
 
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brinny

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vinsight4u said:
God will be angry with the wicked for eternity.
No He won't, because the wicked will be transformed by the power of heaven. For who can stand in the day of the Lord?
The only "transformation" is through Jesus Christ, for the repentant.

The wicked, upon judgement, will be facing God's wrath for eternity.
For who can stand in the day of the Lord?
No one can stand. Only the repentant who are in Christ will be standing. The unrepentant (the wicked) will be under God's wrath.
 
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Lazarus Short

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The thread seems to have quickly veered from the subject of God's Fire to forgiveness and mercy. OK, I have no problem with thread drift, but I think back to what I wrote in my book about Psalm 136. Sorry, some of it will be a bit out of context.

Psalm 136

Here I read (26 times!) this: “…his mercy endureth for ever.” Compare this God of mercy to the Hell theory god, who grants us our precious Free Will, and then when we exercise it badly, even in ignorance, He relegates us to Hell with no chance of reprieve. Compare the real Jesus, Who prayed to His Father for the sinners who were killing Him, to the Jesus of Mary K. Baxter who tells the damned in so many words, “Too bad, you screwed up, and here you are.” (Yes, I did read her book.) For that matter, take a look at the behavior of Jesus’ early followers, in the days when universal reconciliation (or whatever term they used at the time) was orthodoxy, versus the violence, torture, and bloodshed which later set in after the Hell theory became dominant. I know that during this period, entire nations disappeared from history, and others nearly did, for what the Church considered heresy. You see, gentle reader, either the Hell theory is correct, or God’s mercy endures forever – both cannot be true at the same time. If God’s mercy does endure forever, and I believe it does, then people cannot be sent to eternal torture, whatever excuses some may make for it – burning the wicked to ashes is more merciful, but as we shall see, God has more mercy in store for us than that. Let me say it again, for it bears repeating: universal reconciliation is mercy, annihilation is mercy (sort of), but eternal torture cannot be mercy. Psalm 136 and the Hell theory cannot both be true, and Psalm 136 is true.
 
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brinny

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The thread seems to have quickly veered from the subject of God's Fire to forgiveness and mercy. OK, I have no problem with thread drift, but I think back to what I wrote in my book about Psalm 136. Sorry, some of it will be a bit out of context.

Psalm 136

Here I read (26 times!) this: “…his mercy endureth for ever.” Compare this God of mercy to the Hell theory god, who grants us our precious Free Will, and then when we exercise it badly, even in ignorance, He relegates us to Hell with no chance of reprieve. Compare the real Jesus, Who prayed to His Father for the sinners who were killing Him, to the Jesus of Mary K. Baxter who tells the damned in so many words, “Too bad, you screwed up, and here you are.” (Yes, I did read her book.) For that matter, take a look at the behavior of Jesus’ early followers, in the days when universal reconciliation (or whatever term they used at the time) was orthodoxy, versus the violence, torture, and bloodshed which later set in after the Hell theory became dominant. I know that during this period, entire nations disappeared from history, and others nearly did, for what the Church considered heresy. You see, gentle reader, either the Hell theory is correct, or God’s mercy endures forever – both cannot be true at the same time. If God’s mercy does endure forever, and I believe it does, then people cannot be sent to eternal torture, whatever excuses some may make for it – burning the wicked to ashes is more merciful, but as we shall see, God has more mercy in store for us than that. Let me say it again, for it bears repeating: universal reconciliation is mercy, annihilation is mercy (sort of), but eternal torture cannot be mercy. Psalm 136 and the Hell theory cannot both be true, and Psalm 136 is true.

The living God, El Elyon, is Who His Word says He is.

He is holy and perfectly just.

He is also merciful and gracious and His offer of grace and mercy and forgiveness is offered to ALL people, as an escape from this eternal hell.

Those who reject it will be in that horror of a place.

That is why His GOOD NEWS about His only begotten Son's grace that is offered should be shared, so that people are not "in the dark" about what is coming if they reject this inexplicable grace and mercy.

We are not to just be silent, leaving so many in the dark as they continue in that darkness, to their own demise for an eternity.
 
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Lazarus Short

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The living God, El Elyon, is Who His Word says He is.

He is holy and perfectly just.

He is also merciful and gracious and His offer of grace and mercy and forgiveness is offered to ALL people, as an escape from this eternal hell.

Those who reject it will be in that horror of a place.

That is why His GOOD NEWS about His only begotten Son's grace that is offered should be shared, so that people are not "in the dark" about what is coming if they reject this inexplicable grace and mercy.

We are not to just be silent, leaving so many in the dark as they continue in that darkness, to their own demise for an eternity.

brinny, I'm not sure that is even an answer.
 
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brinny

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brinny said:
The living God, El Elyon, is Who His Word says He is.

He is holy and perfectly just.

He is also merciful and gracious and His offer of grace and mercy and forgiveness is offered to ALL people, as an escape from this eternal hell.

Those who reject it will be in that horror of a place.

That is why His GOOD NEWS about His only begotten Son's grace that is offered should be shared, so that people are not "in the dark" about what is coming if they reject this inexplicable grace and mercy.

We are not to just be silent, leaving so many in the dark as they continue in that darkness, to their own demise for an eternity.
brinny, I'm not sure that is even an answer.
It is.

It's based on what is written in God's Word, which ALWAYS accomplishes what God sends it to do, and bears fruit, and speaks for itself.

This comes to mind:

iu
 
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FineLinen

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The thread seems to have quickly veered from the subject of God's Fire to forgiveness and mercy. OK, I have no problem with thread drift, but I think back to what I wrote in my book about Psalm 136. Sorry, some of it will be a bit out of context.

Psalm 136

Here I read (26 times!) this: “…his mercy endureth for ever.” Compare this God of mercy to the Hell theory god, who grants us our precious Free Will, and then when we exercise it badly, even in ignorance, He relegates us to Hell with no chance of reprieve. Compare the real Jesus, Who prayed to His Father for the sinners who were killing Him, to the Jesus of Mary K. Baxter who tells the damned in so many words, “Too bad, you screwed up, and here you are.” (Yes, I did read her book.) For that matter, take a look at the behavior of Jesus’ early followers, in the days when universal reconciliation (or whatever term they used at the time) was orthodoxy, versus the violence, torture, and bloodshed which later set in after the Hell theory became dominant. I know that during this period, entire nations disappeared from history, and others nearly did, for what the Church considered heresy. You see, gentle reader, either the Hell theory is correct, or God’s mercy endures forever – both cannot be true at the same time. If God’s mercy does endure forever, and I believe it does, then people cannot be sent to eternal torture, whatever excuses some may make for it – burning the wicked to ashes is more merciful, but as we shall see, God has more mercy in store for us than that. Let me say it again, for it bears repeating: universal reconciliation is mercy, annihilation is mercy (sort of), but eternal torture cannot be mercy. Psalm 136 and the Hell theory cannot both be true, and Psalm 136 is true.

Dear Laz: Excellent post!

I trust the old Spurgeon lion does not gobble up the mercy and love of God. He will indeed get a bad case of indigestion and may become a chosen lion of exquisite proportions.

Gods love and mercy lasts how long? FOREVER
 
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mkgal1

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Psalm 136

Here I read (26 times!) this: “…his mercy endureth for ever.

The living God, El Elyon, is Who His Word says He is.
True. His Word says (repeatedly) that "His mercy endures forever" as Lazarus Short pointed out (I don't see any disqualifiers)

The enduring mercy of God in His essential nature, who He is.
Oh, give thanks to the LORD, for He is good!
For His mercy endures forever.
Oh, give thanks to the God of gods!
For His mercy endures forever.
Oh, give thanks to the Lord of lords!
For His mercy endures forever:
To Him who alone does great wonders,
For His mercy endures forever;
To Him who by wisdom made the heavens,
For His mercy endures forever;
To Him who laid out the earth above the waters,
For His mercy endures forever;
To Him who made great lights,
For His mercy endures forever—
The sun to rule by day,
For His mercy endures forever;
The moon and stars to rule by night,
For His mercy endures forever.
To Him who struck Egypt in their firstborn,
For His mercy endures forever;
And brought out Israel from among them,
For His mercy endures forever;
With a strong hand, and with an outstretched arm,
For His mercy endures forever;
To Him who divided the Red Sea in two,
For His mercy endures forever;
And made Israel pass through the midst of it,
For His mercy endures forever;
But overthrew Pharaoh and his army in the Red Sea,
For His mercy endures forever;
Who remembered us in our lowly state,
For His mercy endures forever;
And rescued us from our enemies,
For His mercy endures forever;
Who gives food to all flesh,
For His mercy endures forever.
Oh, give thanks to the God of heaven!
For His mercy endures forever.

.....repeated that many times, yet still, it gets translated to "there's an end to His mercy - and the door gets slammed in faces".
 
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mkgal1

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Hebrews 10:28
died without mercy
Referring to the Old Covenant.

Hebrews 10:1-2 - The old system under the law of Moses was only a shadow, a dim preview of the good things to come, not the good things themselves. The sacrifices under that system were repeated again and again, year after year, but they were never able to provide perfect cleansing for those who came to worship. 2 If they could have provided perfect cleansing, the sacrifices would have stopped, for the worshipers would have been purified once for all time, and their feelings of guilt would have disappeared.

And so, dear brothers and sisters, we can boldly enter heaven’s Most Holy Place because of the blood of Jesus. 20 By his death, Jesus opened a new and life-giving way through the curtain into the Most Holy Place. 21 And since we have a great High Priest who rules over God’s house, 22 let us go right into the presence of God with sincere hearts fully trusting him. For our guilty consciences have been sprinkled with Christ’s blood to make us clean, and our bodies have been washed with pure water.

23 Let us hold tightly without wavering to the hope we affirm, for God can be trusted to keep his promise. 24 Let us think of ways to motivate one another to acts of love and good works. 25 And let us not neglect our meeting together, as some people do, but encourage one another, especially now that the day of his return is drawing near.

26 Dear friends, if we deliberately continue sinning after we have received knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice that will cover these sins. 27 There is only the terrible expectation of God’s judgment and the raging fire that will consume his enemies. 28 For anyone who refused to obey the law of Moses was put to death without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
 
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vinsight4u

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Referring to the Old Covenant.

Hebrews 10:1-2 - The old system under the law of Moses was only a shadow, a dim preview of the good things to come, not the good things themselves. The sacrifices under that system were repeated again and again, year after year, but they were never able to provide perfect cleansing for those who came to worship. 2 If they could have provided perfect cleansing, the sacrifices would have stopped, for the worshipers would have been purified once for all time, and their feelings of guilt would have disappeared.

And so, dear brothers and sisters, we can boldly enter heaven’s Most Holy Place because of the blood of Jesus. 20 By his death, Jesus opened a new and life-giving way through the curtain into the Most Holy Place. 21 And since we have a great High Priest who rules over God’s house, 22 let us go right into the presence of God with sincere hearts fully trusting him. For our guilty consciences have been sprinkled with Christ’s blood to make us clean, and our bodies have been washed with pure water.

23 Let us hold tightly without wavering to the hope we affirm, for God can be trusted to keep his promise. 24 Let us think of ways to motivate one another to acts of love and good works. 25 And let us not neglect our meeting together, as some people do, but encourage one another, especially now that the day of his return is drawing near.

26 Dear friends, if we deliberately continue sinning after we have received knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice that will cover these sins. 27 There is only the terrible expectation of God’s judgment and the raging fire that will consume his enemies. 28 For anyone who refused to obey the law of Moses was put to death without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
They died in their sins....and Jesus Christ told the Jews that would be dying that way
in the future that they could not go where He was going.
ye cannot come

At the end of the book of Revelation, we find murderers are outside the holy city.
verse - as to no murderer has eternal life

1 John 3:15

John 8:21
John 8:24
John 7:34
John 7:36

John 3:3

Jude 1:13
 
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