OU Student given a zero for citing the bible in essay

[ThatRobGuy]

finally! @RocksInMyHead , sorry, I had to snip parts of your posts (and mine) to finally get the message to post, but I tried to preserve the context

 

[Hans Blaster]

How much does everyone need to donate to get this fixed?

I have a reply I've tried to send 20 times and it's not going through. Online debating is no longer a relaxing activity lol

A TA salary is about $20,000 per academic year. Benefit rates are low. $25k aught to do it.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

A TA salary is about $20,000 per academic year. Benefit rates are low. $25k aught to do it.

I doubt a TA would know how to fix the website, but if they could, the cost for 3-4 hours of their time would be worth it lol.

I'm sure we could all scrape together $50

 

[durangodawood]

How much does everyone need to donate to get this fixed?

I have a reply I've tried to send 20 times and it's not going through. Online debating is no longer a relaxing activity lol

OK admins....... we're about to lose Rob! These problems are getting real.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

OK admins....... we're about to lose Rob! These problems are getting real.

Hey, I offered up my services for a nominal fee lol

 

[Hans Blaster]

I doubt a TA would know how to fix the website, but if they could, the cost for 3-4 hours of their time would be worth it lol.

I'm sure we could all scrape together $50

Pardon me for thinking you were talking about the subject of the thread.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Pardon me for thinking you were talking about the subject of the thread.

trying to lol

 

[Hans Blaster]

trying to lol

OK.

How much do you know about the assignment, the essay, and the instructors' comments on the grade?

Here is a source:

She turned in a Bible sermon instead of an essay and failed. Now conservatives say she’s the victim.

Samantha Fulnecky’s Bible-filled essay earned her a failing grade. After whining to Republican leaders, the University of Oklahoma is caving to her demands.

www.friendlyatheist.com

 

[ThatRobGuy]

OK.

How much do you know about the assignment, the essay, and the instructors' comments on the grade?

Here is a source:

She turned in a Bible sermon instead of an essay and failed. Now conservatives say she’s the victim.

Samantha Fulnecky’s Bible-filled essay earned her a failing grade. After whining to Republican leaders, the University of Oklahoma is caving to her demands.

www.friendlyatheist.com

I posted the google docs link to the assignment earlier.

Reaction Paper Requirements crop.png

drive.google.com

Which was asking students to write a reaction paper about this

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/sode.12042

Hence the reason I referred to it as a "concede the premise" type of assignment

 

[durangodawood]

I posted the google docs link to the assignment earlier.

Reaction Paper Requirements crop.png

drive.google.com

Which was asking students to write a reaction paper about this

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/sode.12042

Hence the reason I referred to it as a "concede the premise" type of assignment

The students "paper" didnt even challenge the study in any way. Just completely ignored it. This would be a different discussion if the student had actually challenged the premise rather than going off on a generic rant.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

The students "paper" didnt even challenge the study in any way. Just completely ignored it. This would be a different discussion if the student had actually challenged the premise rather than going off on a generic rant.

In the modern academia world where credentialism is king, there is no feasible way for a student to "challenge" a study without a flat out rejection.

The assignment was a reaction to an abstract that was published by 2 people who have a grand total of 26 published works between them and an unimpressive number of citations (which, in the academic community, means they're "shlubs" for lack of a better term, the anti-vaxxers who went on Rogan have a more impressive professional record than the people who authored the piece they were tasked with reviewing)

This was absolutely a "concede the premise" assignment.

Example:

If there was some TA you had in an economics class, who made it pretty clear they were on the conservative side economically speaking...

And they gave you the assignment of
Read this abstract from these two pro trickle down people who've been cited fewer than a dozen times, and
- talk about why you think their work is important
- talk about how their work applies to your own life
- link objective findings that have proven their premise to be impactful
- talk about how that ties in with what I talked about Tuesday
- talk about how their research can be taken to the next developmental stage

What would your reaction be to that?

Clearly there's a hard stop at #1 on the list, because if someone tasked me with explaining why economists who favor trickle down is important, my response would be "it's not, and this is a sham"

Plus, for any of us (and I believe this includes both you and I) that have been in the college environment, we all know that TAs can have some "bit of a power trip" tendencies lol. Basically, a person who's been in college for 5 years, wanting to lord over "those simpleton undergrads who've only been here for 3 years"

 

[NxNW]

Should an instructor be allowed to grade by a different set of standards based on injection of personal biases when an assignment touches on an area that's "close to home" for them?

No, but that's not what happened here.

...and on an assignment, no less, that one could reasonably argue was in the theme of "concede the premise"? (IE: Asking students to write a paper that operates on the assumption that's the instructor's position on a subjective topic is the correct one)

That didn't happen either.

 

[NxNW]

In this case, what other "completeness" would there need to be in this scenario?

In a nutshell:

- roughly 2 months ago, there was a dispute over how an assignment was graded
- the student claims there was bias given the circumstances
- the TA claims there was not
- they both lawyered up
- university (obviously) consulted their legal team...at least I'd open a major university with one of the largest endowments in the country would if they're worth their salt.

The university's review concluded:
"Based on an examination of the graduate teaching assistant’s prior grading standards and patterns, as well as the graduate teaching assistant’s own statements related to this matter, it was determined that the graduate teaching assistant was arbitrary in the grading of this specific paper,"


Not sure what other bureaucracy and "process" people are expecting.

I expect it to go to court.

I suspect that no matter arbitration entity reviewing it, the people on the side of the TA are going to have issue with anything other than "The TA wins".

That's because the student deserved a zero.

 

[NxNW]

This was absolutely a "concede the premise" assignment.

Nobody was asked to concede anything. Stop being disingenuous.

 

[Stopped_lurking]

In the modern academia world where credentialism is king, there is no feasible way for a student to "challenge" a study without a flat out rejection.

The assignment was a reaction to an abstract that was published by 2 people who have a grand total of 26 published works between them and an unimpressive number of citations (which, in the academic community, means they're "shlubs" for lack of a better term, the anti-vaxxers who went on Rogan have a more impressive professional record than the people who authored the piece they were tasked with reviewing)

This was absolutely a "concede the premise" assignment.

Example:

If there was some TA you had in an economics class, who made it pretty clear they were on the conservative side economically speaking...

And they gave you the assignment of
Read this abstract from these two pro trickle down people who've been cited fewer than a dozen times, and
- talk about why you think their work is important
- talk about how their work applies to your own life
- link objective findings that have proven their premise to be impactful
- talk about how that ties in with what I talked about Tuesday
- talk about how their research can be taken to the next developmental stage

What would your reaction be to that?

Clearly there's a hard stop at #1 on the list, because if someone tasked me with explaining why economists who favor trickle down is important, my response would be "it's not, and this is a sham"

Plus, for any of us (and I believe this includes both you and I) that have been in the college environment, we all know that TAs can have some "bit of a power trip" tendencies lol. Basically, a person who's been in college for 5 years, wanting to lord over "those simpleton undergrads who've only been here for 3 years"

You might want to check your data about Christia Spears Brown. I stopped counting at 60 articles. She has several thousand of citations. And Google Scholar gives her a h-index of 47. I'm writing on my phone, I can give more precise numbers on Sunday, perhaps.

The number of 23 articles are those published by a Wiley journal, I guess.

 

[Hans Blaster]

In the modern academia world where credentialism is king, there is no feasible way for a student to "challenge" a study without a flat out rejection.

The assignment was a reaction to an abstract that was published by 2 people who have a grand total of 26 published works between them and an unimpressive number of citations (which, in the academic community, means they're "shlubs" for lack of a better term, the anti-vaxxers who went on Rogan have a more impressive professional record than the people who authored the piece they were tasked with reviewing)

This was absolutely a "concede the premise" assignment.

Example:

If there was some TA you had in an economics class, who made it pretty clear they were on the conservative side economically speaking...

And they gave you the assignment of
Read this abstract from these two pro trickle down people who've been cited fewer than a dozen times, and
- talk about why you think their work is important
- talk about how their work applies to your own life
- link objective findings that have proven their premise to be impactful
- talk about how that ties in with what I talked about Tuesday
- talk about how their research can be taken to the next developmental stage

What would your reaction be to that?

Clearly there's a hard stop at #1 on the list, because if someone tasked me with explaining why economists who favor trickle down is important, my response would be "it's not, and this is a sham"

Plus, for any of us (and I believe this includes both you and I) that have been in the college environment, we all know that TAs can have some "bit of a power trip" tendencies lol. Basically, a person who's been in college for 5 years, wanting to lord over "those simpleton undergrads who've only been here for 3 years"

Speaking of which--- what are your academic credentials to make such claims?

You claim the authors of the study that Ms. Fulnecky failed to include in her reaction to it was by a pair of authors with "only 26 articles" and an "unimpressive number of citations" then comment on how important citation counts are.

A few questions about this "analysis"--

How did you count the total prior output of those authors?
How did you ensure that the counting method would capture the full output of those authors?
How did you determine their citation count?
How did you determine if this is a small or large number in that particular sub-field of psychology?

(THe link you posted to the paper itself includes a fairly long and steady stream of citations to the particular paper. It does not appear to be one ignored by the psychology research community.)

 

[Pommer]

Given the facts that are available, this seems the only reasonable outcome. I would need additional facts in order to change my view on the matter.

I follow this topic but haven’t yet felt the urge to form an opinion, oddly enough.

 

[durangodawood]

In the modern academia world where credentialism is king, there is no feasible way for a student to "challenge" a study without a flat out rejection.

The assignment was a reaction to an abstract that was published by 2 people who have a grand total of 26 published works between them and an unimpressive number of citations (which, in the academic community, means they're "shlubs" for lack of a better term, the anti-vaxxers who went on Rogan have a more impressive professional record than the people who authored the piece they were tasked with reviewing)

This was absolutely a "concede the premise" assignment.

Example:

If there was some TA you had in an economics class, who made it pretty clear they were on the conservative side economically speaking...

And they gave you the assignment of
Read this abstract from these two pro trickle down people who've been cited fewer than a dozen times, and
- talk about why you think their work is important
- talk about how their work applies to your own life
- link objective findings that have proven their premise to be impactful
- talk about how that ties in with what I talked about Tuesday
- talk about how their research can be taken to the next developmental stage

What would your reaction be to that?

Clearly there's a hard stop at #1 on the list, because if someone tasked me with explaining why economists who favor trickle down is important, my response would be "it's not, and this is a sham"

Plus, for any of us (and I believe this includes both you and I) that have been in the college environment, we all know that TAs can have some "bit of a power trip" tendencies lol. Basically, a person who's been in college for 5 years, wanting to lord over "those simpleton undergrads who've only been here for 3 years"

So if I find something wrong with the economics paper and want to be that maverick student, then I should challenge the paper. Thats a risk because its not really the assignment, as you note. But at least Im dealing with the course material - even if its not the way the prof expected.

But if I just write a generic ideological rant, then I should expect a fail.

 

[mindlight]

As has been made clear in this thread the Samantha Fulnecky case is not a good example of academic bias but rather of an illiterate student and an activist mother.
A better example would have been:

Complete Victory Achieved in ACU Lawsuit Against Washington Elementary School District - Arizona Christian University

Complete Victory Achieved in ACU Lawsuit Against Washington Elementary School District

www.arizonachristian.edu

 

[RileyG]

Cowards.

I entirely disagree. Although it was a terrible essay and probably deserved a zero, the TA was unable to be unbiased and abused his position of power. The university had no other choice, they just don’t want “bad press” or ruin their reputation.

That’s business.