Other than your own, what liturgical tradition is your favorite?

The Liturgist

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Other than the liturgical rite in which you worship at your church, which form of the liturgy do you like the most? For me its a toss-up between the Ambrosian Rite of Milan, whose vestments, liturgical colors, lectionary, service structure and hymnography I adore, and the West Syriac Rite, where again, I love the vestments, liturgical colors, lectionary, service structure and hymnography. Coming in at second is the post Nikonian Russian/Ukrainian/Bulgarian/Georgian and Romanian form of the Byzantine Rite, followed by the East Syriac Rite in no. 3, the Coptic Rite in no. 4, with no. 5, being a dead heat between other versions of the Byzantine Rite (Greek, Serbian, Ruthenian), the Armenian Rite and the Mozarabic Rite.

I did not include on my list different forms of the Western (Roman) Rite, because I use a variant of it at my church, and there would be just too much to consider for me personally, because of the large number of variants, if, however, one of you is an Anglican and goes to a traditional Anglican liturgy from the 1662 or 1928 BCP, but also loves the Tridentine and Dominican Rite liturgies more than anything except the Anglican services you attend, that would be something I’d love to hear.

Please also, if you can, mention why you like specific liturgies. I did not go into detail in this post because I have a cramp in my right hand from excessive typing, but I will in a subsequent post talk in more detail about things I like in the different liturgies I mentioned.

I would also state the main liturgical rites I dislike are some of the modernized, reformed Western Rite liturgies. Not the usual suspects; I like the 1979 BCP and have seen the Novus Ordo mass performed well, but rather, I really don’t like the services in the 2006 ELCA hymnal or in the Church of England Common Worship book. For that matter, the Book of Worship of the United Church of Christ, which I used for years, has some cringeworthy examples of excessive political correctness, but there was an easy fix for that: I annotated my copy, and with those errors corrected it made a nice enough service book.
 
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Paidiske

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I honestly don't have enough experience of most other traditions to have a favourite. I've had some positive and some not so positive experiences of a variety of different traditions, but how much those are representative experiences of that tradition, I'd be hard pressed to say. (For example, the one Greek Orthodox service I've ever been to was a wedding; I don't feel that qualifies me to generalise about Greek Orthodox liturgies).

I will say that I have a preference for worship being conducted in a language which the congregation understands and can join in. I dislike having to guess where they're up to up the front because I can't understand a word they're saying (or singing), and don't feel that enables the worship of the congregation well.

It's interesting to me that you dislike Common Worship; it's not authorised for general use here but on occasion I've been able to use extracts from it for particular purposes, and I've been impressed with the breadth and quality of resources offered.
 
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The Liturgist

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I honestly don't have enough experience of most other traditions to have a favourite. I've had some positive and some not so positive experiences of a variety of different traditions, but how much those are representative experiences of that tradition, I'd be hard pressed to say. (For example, the one Greek Orthodox service I've ever been to was a wedding; I don't feel that qualifies me to generalise about Greek Orthodox liturgies).

I will say that I have a preference for worship being conducted in a language which the congregation understands and can join in. I dislike having to guess where they're up to up the front because I can't understand a word they're saying (or singing), and don't feel that enables the worship of the congregation well.

For this reason, I really like the Eastern Orthodox approach of using the traditional language (which may or may not be vernacular, or widely understood, in the “old country”) together with the vernacular of the new country, sometimes even repeating very important parts (although the Orthodox believe that either the Epiclesis or the entire liturgy is consecratory, and not the Words of Institution, there is a video on YouTube of Metropolitan Philip Saliba intoning them twice, in English and Arabic).

But two of the four Oriental Orthodox churches do something even better: LCD screens in Coptic and Syriac Orthodox Churches have the liturgy, in the US for example, in English, Arabic, Coptic and Syriac, and the Coptic and Syriac is syllabized so you don’t have to know how to read Coptic or Syriac script. And to make sure that the guidance is accurate, the text is kept in PowerPoint presentations, and there will be a Psalti (a reader) in the altar on a laptop or tablet whose sole job is to make sure the displays reflect what is going on. This is combined with the extensive use of Arabic and English in the service, and the net affect is that following along is extremely easy. Also, Syriac and Coptic language education has been prioritized among the youth in an effort to save the former (the Assyrians are also doing this), and to revive the latter, so that it is more than just a liturgical language like Latin. There is enormous resentment in the Coptic community that they were forced to stop speaking Coptic in public in the tenth century, under penalty of having their tongue cut out.

It's interesting to me that you dislike Common Worship; it's not authorised for general use here but on occasion I've been able to use extracts from it for particular purposes, and I've been impressed with the breadth and quality of resources offered.

So herein I made an error due to insomnia; I meant to say the 1984 Church of Wales BCP, which although in a traditional language, is kind of a monster. Its impossible to find anything in it, and it bloated out to two volumes, which strikes me as absurd and contrary to the whole point of the Book of Common Prayer, which is to put everything needed in one volume.

I actually like Common Worship, although the prose styling on the contemporary language services in some places strikes me as being not quite as good as that from the old Alternative Service Book or the 1979 American BCP. But Common Worship to me represents the future, in that it is the basis for a fully modularized liturgy, whereas the 2019 ACNA BCP represents the past, in that it has less actual content than the 1979 BCP, was not offered in a standard edition, and was based on the dated concept of how much could be crammed into one volume. And the 1984 BCP represents the worst of all worlds; it nominally retains a Cranmerian style, but wherever it deviates from the classic Book of Common Prayer, the prose gets very ugly, and it is extremely bloated into two volumes, with the division between them not being entirely clear. They would have done much better to, for example, call one volume a Missal or Euchologion, and one a Breviary or Divine Office Book, or perhaps split it into three volumes, because even split in two, the volumes of the 1984 Welsh Book could be called gargantuan.

So if Common Worship is the future, the 1984 BCP the road best not taken, the 2019 ACNA BCP a relic of dubious utility, inferior to the 2004 Irish BCP and the New Zealand BCP, both of which have superior prose styling, the 1979 BCP I think represents the apex of BCP development. It offers remarkable flexibility, it crams a massive amount of content into one volume without being unworkable, the typography is elegant, and the entire work is in the public domain, which allowed for the creation of the exquisite Anglican Service Book, which was expressly allowed by rubrics in the 1979 BCP allowing for any Episcopal church to use services adapted from the book into traditional language. This enabled all of the Rite II services to be rendered into Cranmerian prose, and in so doing, some of the common complaints about the Rite II services were addressed (for example, Eucharistic Prayer C is nicknamed the Star Trek prayer, and while I like it, a lot of Episcopal priests do not; a friend of mine who since retired from ECUSA used prayers A, B and C, but never D, because D has a fixed preface which he felt made it unworkable; he was also unaware of some of the rubrics that would have allowed him to tweak that).

Lastly, the 1979 BCP has something nicknamed “Rite III”, a loose order for a Communion service that Episcopal churches have used in many fun and creative ways, for example, several parishes have used the provisions in Rite III to celebrate the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom.

My hope is that the C of E will release Common Worship into the public domain and provide rubrics offering similiar flexibility. But as it stands, Common Worship is an amazing resource.

...

That said, I was not half asleep when I knocked the 2006 ELCA service book. I find it hugely disappointing. I really like the Lutheran Book of Worship; I don’t see they needed to replace it, and the replacement is just not good. This has nothing to do with liberal theology; my UCC Book of Worship, which is from 1989-91, I think, and the 2009 Presbyterian hymnal Glory to God are both the products of extremely liberal churches, and they both feature well planned liturgical services. Some of the hymn selections in Glory to God I found questionable, but the liturgical aspect was fine.

Likewise, the 1993 Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod hymnal is miserable. However, they have a new hymnal shipping later this year which looks very nice.

Coincidentally, if there is ever a need for supplemental prayers compatible with the Cranmerian traditional language prayer books, the best source of these is the 1964 Methodist Episcopal Book of Worship. In addition to excellent content for the various holy days and liturgical seasons, it features the largest collection of useful prayers I have seen outside of an Eastern Orthodox Euchologion or Trebnik (also known as The Book of Needs). For example, if one needed to dedicate a hospital or university, or a nuclear power plant, or bless a rocket launch or item of personal medical equipment, it has prayers for that. Most of which are very practical; I cited the prayer for nuclear energy as an example of how comprehensive it is.
 
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All4Christ

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The Tridentine mass is beautiful, though I prefer versions where the vernacular is used, in a carefully crafted, beautiful and accurate wording. The Latin is beautiful, but it is important to me to understand the liturgy.

(I love the liturgies of St Basil, St James, St Cyril, etc, but they fall into a very similar category, if not the same, of my own Tradition.)
 
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hedrick

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I've enjoyed Anglican services. I have virtually no experience with Catholic or Orthodox, because I don't attend communion services that restrict communion to their own members. I would actually prefer more "high church" than is typical for Presbyterians.

The OP is more into specifics of rites than I am, so I don't distinguish among Anglican rites. I assume the ones I've attended used the then-current BCP. As you may know, the PCUSA moved to a rite based on the Anaphora of the Apostolic Tradition several decades ago, as part of a general Protestant liturgical renewal. I definitely prefer that to the previous rite. The big problem with the liturgical renewal was that it didn't manage to get weekly communion accepted very widely, though it mostly moved from quarterly to monthly.
 
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The Liturgist

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This is a really good video which explains some of the obscure ritual details of the Coptic Rite, which are not as well documented as in the Byzantine Rite. It is also remarkable how similiar the Coptic and Byzantine Rite are when it comes to this symbolism, despite the Alexandrian structure of the former and the Antiochene structure of the latter.
 
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The Liturgist

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I've enjoyed Anglican services. I have virtually no experience with Catholic or Orthodox, because I don't attend communion services that restrict communion to their own members.

You should in that case attend All Night Vigils at a Russian Orthodox Church, or in Lent, there are a large number of non-Eucharistic services including the Great Canon of St. Andrew of Krete, Great Compline, Bridgegroom Matins in Holy Week, the 12 Gospels service on the evening of Holy Thursday, and on Good Friday, the extremely moving services including the Royal Hours, the Crucifixion, and the Epitaphios. Unlike in the Roman Rite, the Presanctified Liturgy is not served on Friday.

The Assyrian Church of the East allows anyone with a belief in the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist to receive communion.

I would actually prefer more "high church" than is typical for Presbyterians.

So this is actually a thing: you have Mercersburg Theology, which stresses the importance of the liturgy, and Scoto-Catholicism, which sought to enrich the services of the Church of Scotland in a manner similar to Anglo-Catholicism.
 
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tampasteve

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The TLM or Tridentine Mass in the Vernacular. Although, a sufficiently "High" NO Mass can be just as beautiful.
 
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The Liturgist

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The TLM or Tridentine Mass in the Vernacular. Although, a sufficiently "High" NO Mass can be just as beautiful.

Usually when you find that, its either Anglo Catholics or Western Rite Orthodox who are serving it, interestingly enough. I am not sure if it is even licit for a Roman priest to serve the Extraordinary Form in the vernacular; I hope it is, but I have never seen it, whereas Anglican and Western Rite Orthodox use of the Tridentine mass, or in the case of the WRO, a closely derived service which the Antiochian Western Rite Vicarate in the US calls the Divine Liturgy of St. Gregory, are fairly common. The AWRV has St. Andrew’s Service Book, which features the Tridentine mass-based service and also an Orthodox adaptation of the Anglican Holy Communion service called the Divine Liturgy of St. Tikhon, so named because St. Tikhon of Moscow, before he became Patriarch and was instead Bishop of New York, formed at the request of Anglicans seeking admission to the Orthodox church a committee to evaluate the Anglican communion service and see what needed to be changed for it to be acceptable for Orthodox use.

The Anglo Catholics on the other hand were historically divided into two groups, the more numerous Prayer Book Catholics, who sought to enrich the existing BCP liturgy, and the Missal Catholics, a handful of which at the extreme Anglo Catholic parish of St. Magnus the Martyr in the City of London used the Latin Missal, but the rest of whom used a book called The English Missal, which was a translation and adaptation of the Tridentine Mass for Anglo-Catholic use; this remains in use today, and is also in the public domain and can be found on the Internet Archive.
 
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Paidiske

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I have virtually no experience with Catholic or Orthodox, because I don't attend communion services that restrict communion to their own members.

I must admit, I've drifted this way over time. I used to be much more willing to do so, but these days, I avoid these services unless there's some compelling reason to go. I see the refusal to communicate fellow-Christians as too much of a travesty of what our worship should be.
 
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The Liturgist

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I must admit, I've drifted this way over time. I used to be much more willing to do so, but these days, I avoid these services unless there's some compelling reason to go. I see the refusal to communicate fellow-Christians as too much of a travesty of what our worship should be.

I sympathize with your position, but there is the problem of 1 Corinthians 11:27-34; churches that practice closed communion do so for the most part because they are concerned of harm coming to people who partake unworthily, not discerning the body and blood of our Lord.

But I think the answer is not to boycott Catholic, Orthodox and Lutheran services, but to continue the process of ecumenical dialogue, “that they may all be one.”* My friend, a now retired traditional Episcopal priest in Southern California, would on the eve of Thanksgiving have an interfaith service in which all the local churches, including the Catholics and the Orthodox and the Seventh Day Adventists, as well as Muslims from the local mosque and Jews from a Reformed synagogue, including a very entertaining cantor, would participate, and these were a lot of fun.

*My UCC background is showing here I expect.
 
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Paidiske

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But I think the answer is not to boycott Catholic, Orthodox and Lutheran services, but to continue the process of ecumenical dialogue, “that they may all be one.”*

Sure, I'll dialogue. But while we're in dialogue, I don't have to put myself in the position of being treated as an inferior or suspect Christian in someone else's church.
 
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The Liturgist

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Sure, I'll dialogue. But while we're in dialogue, I don't have to put myself in the position of being treated as an inferior or suspect Christian in someone else's church.

You told me if I recall you had a very unpleasant experience in a local Orthodox church? There are a few Orthodox priests who are mean, but most of the ones I know are extremely loving. The problem is you don’t know what you are going to get if you just show up. The Assyrian Church of the East as I stated before has printed cards in their pews inviting anyone who believes in the Real Presence to communion, which I like.

By the way, in the case of a typical Russian Orthodox Church, at a typical parish everyone has to confess before partaking, sometimes before each time, at others, a minimum of once a month, and observe the pre-communion fast, and at some parishes this is only possible at All Night Vigils the evening before. So there at least one does not feel singled out as a non-member, since many of those present will not be partaking of the Eucharist.
 
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Paidiske

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You told me if I recall you had a very unpleasant experience in a local Orthodox church?

No... you might be thinking of the time the Copts held a service in our church, and that turned into a fraught experience?
 
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The Liturgist

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No... you might be thinking of the time the Copts held a service in our church, and that turned into a fraught experience?

That was it. And I replied how your experience with them was very much unlike my experiences; most of the problems I have had with unpleasant Orthodox priests have involved American converts and younger “cradle” priests.
 
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hedrick

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I sympathize with your position, but there is the problem of 1 Corinthians 11:27-34; churches that practice closed communion do so for the most part because they are concerned of harm coming to people who partake unworthily, not discerning the body and blood of our Lord.
Yeah, but there are a couple of ways to understand that statement. I think it's much more likely that by "body" he means the fellowship. I consider closed communion a violation of 1 Cor 11 in that it bars part of the body. Indeed the context of 1 Cor 11 is precisely that: a group of Christians that have factions. I don't want to participate in any communion that is open only to one faction.
 
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hedrick

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So this is actually a thing: you have Mercersburg Theology, which stresses the importance of the liturgy, and Scoto-Catholicism, which sought to enrich the services of the Church of Scotland in a manner similar to Anglo-Catholicism.
I think I'd have problems with other aspects of Mercersburg theology.
 
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The Liturgist

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Yeah, but there are a couple of ways to understand that statement. I think it's much more likely that by "body" he means the fellowship. I consider closed communion a violation of 1 Cor 11 in that it bars part of the body. Indeed the context of 1 Cor 11 is precisely that: a group of Christians that have factions. I don't want to participate in any communion that is open only to one faction.

I haven’t heard of that interpretation before. I am most used to the traditional interpretation, and I particularly like the exhortations used with Ante-Communion in the 1662;Book of Common Prayer for the faithful to examine their conscience in preparation for communion at the next service, while at the same time welcoming and encouraging all of them to partake. This exhortation from the 1928 BCP deeply moved me when I actually was lucky enough to hear it in a low church Continuing Anglican parish (in the Church of England or the few Episcopal Churches using Rite I, the exhortations are seldom heard, and most Low Church parishes use Morning Prayer rather than Ante Communion as their main service, even among continuing Anglican parishes, so hearing it in use was quite unexpected and a bit like winning the liturgical lottery):

DEARLY beloved, on——day next I purpose, through God's assistance, to administer to all such as shall be religiously and devoutly disposed the most comfortable Sacrament of the Body and Blood of Christ; to be by them received in remembrance of his meritorious Cross and Pas-sion; whereby alone we obtain remission of our sins, and are made partakers of the Kingdom of heaven. Wherefore it is our duty to render most humble and hearty thanks to Almighty God, our heavenly Father, for that he hath given his Son our Saviour Jesus Christ, not only to die for us, but also to be our spiritual food and sustenance in that holy Sacrament. Which being so divine and comfortable a thing to them who receive it worthily, and so dangerous to those who will presume to receive it unworthily; my duty is to exhort you, in the mean season to consider the dignity of that holy mystery, and the great peril of the unworthy receiving thereof; and so to search and examine your own consciences, and that not lightly, and after the manner of dissemblers with God; but that ye may come holy and clean to such a heavenly Feast, in the marriage-garment required by God in holy Scripture, and be received as worthy partakers of that holy Table.
The way and means thereto is: First, to examine your lives and conversations by the rule of God’s command-ments; and whereinsoever ye shall perceive yourselves to have offended, either by will, word, or deed, there to bewail your own sinfulness, and to confess yourselves to Almighty God, with full purpose of amendment of life. And if ye shall perceive your offences to be such as are not only against God, but also against your neighbours; then ye shall reconcile yourselves unto them; being ready to make restitution and satisfaction, according to the uttermost of your powers, for all injuries and wrongs done by you to any other; and being likewise ready to forgive others who have offended you, as ye would have forgiveness of your offences at God's hand: for otherwise the receiving of the holy Communion doth nothing else but increase your condemnation. There-fore, if any of you be a blasphemer of God, an hinderer or slanderer of his Word, an adulterer, or be in malice, or envy, or in any other grievous crime; repent you of your sins, or else come not to that holy Table.
And because it is requisite that no man should come tothe holy Communion, but with a full trust in God’s mercy, and with a quiet conscience; therefore, if there be any of you, who by this means cannot quiet his own conscience herein, but requireth further comfort or counsel, let him come to me, or to some other Minister of God’s Word, and open his grief; that he may receive such godly counsel and advice, as may tend to the quieting of his conscience, and the removing of all scruple and doubtfulness.
 
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hedrick

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I haven’t heard of that interpretation before.
It's the classic Protestant interpretation, at least for those who don't accept the

Thisleton's commentary describes 3 understandings of "the body" here:

1) A strong tradition from Justin and Augustine through Thomas Aquinas, Peter Lombard, and even Beza to a number of modern (mainly nineteenth-century) writers, including Heinrici, Weiss, and even (in modified Protestant form) Godet, interpret Paul’s words to mean distinguishing between the sacred eucharistic elements of the Lord’s body and ordinary bread from the table.

2) A reaction, represented by such writers as Bornkamm, Käsemann, Kümmel, Schweizer, and earlier Robertson and Plummer, tends, in effect, to understand discerning the body as referring primarily to respect for the congregation of believers as the body of the Lord.220 Bornkamm believes that Paul alludes to “ ‘the mystical body of Christ’ of the congregation … the [united] ‘body’ of the congregation.”

3) In this sense our verse states that they must recognize what characterizes the body as different, i.e., be mindful of the uniqueness of Christ, who is separated from others in the sense of giving himself for others in sheer grace. The Lord’s Supper, by underlining participation in, and identification with, the cruciform Christ, thereby generates the social transformation, which is Paul’s second concern. Nevertheless, he never leaves behind the proclamation of the cross (1:18–25) as the ground of identity transformation, and it is of the very essence of the Lord’s Supper (and of baptism) to keep this anchorage in grace and in the cross in sharp focus.

Calvin's comment is

"He adds the reason—because they distinguish not the Lord’s body, that is, as a sacred thing from a profane. “They handle the sacred body of Christ with unwashen hands, (Mark 7:2,)2 nay more, as if it were a thing of nought, they consider not how great is the value of it."

That's basically Thisleton's (3). It would not provide a reason to reject those who aren't members of your church.

(2) is a standard "low church" understanding. That's how Gordon Fee's commentary understands it, and I think is the most likely. He argues that both the wording and the context favor that.

In either 2 or 3, it's reasonable to say that we're not doing communion right if we allow divisions, since that seems to be what Paul is attacking.
 
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dzheremi

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I love all the Orthodox rites, but other than my own I would have to say the Syriac Orthodox. The Armenians have much more pleasing music (to my western ears, anyway; it is easily the most familiar-sounding if you come from a western, Greco-Roman/Chalcedonian background, as I do), but I think the Syriacs strike a good balance between the reedy sharpness and extremely melismatic Coptic chant (which in some cases, like with some of the longer Holy Week hymns like "Pekthronos", can get a bit difficult to follow) and the more predictably metered other kinds of chant.

It also helps in my case personally that the Syriac Orthodox liturgies are the only ones outside of the Coptic that I have really studied, thanks to the relative scarcity of reasonably-priced English-language works on the Ethiopian liturgies. So I feel like I can sort of 'get the hang' of the Syriac Orthodox qurbono easier than some other form that I'm less familiar with, as beautiful as those of the Ethiopians, Eritreans, and Armenians certainly are.

Plus it just sounds really good in English, if you have a proper bilingual priest:


As for those outside of my communion, I quite like the Mozarabic liturgy, though I only know the reconstruction of Fr. Cisneros (same as everyone else, I guess). The Ambrosian liturgy is also very pleasing, though I think I still prefer the Mozarabic.
 
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