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OT: Look who's joining the Avengers next movies!

Discussion in 'The Ancient Way - Eastern Orthodox' started by gurneyhalleck1, Jan 26, 2013.

  1. gurneyhalleck1

    gurneyhalleck1 Reader

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    I have no problem with Black Widow. No problem at all. I think she's great. But I think the story arc in the comics between she and Hawkeye were WAY better. And while I think Scarlett J. is a super gorgeous woman (trust me, she's NOT ugly!), I don't think she fit. I look at Anne Hathaway (an actress I actually DON'T usually like!) and her Catwoman SMOKED the doors off that theater! She was incredible! The exact opposite of Scar-Jo's portrayal. Where BW has no relevance to the Avengers, Catwoman steals the show in TDKR!

    With Loki, this is just a case of "in the eye of the beholder." I didn't find Tom Hiddleston the least bit menacing or interesting. He's a silly character in the movie, imho. He's just a metrosexual snob who seems to want to take over the Earth for, well, no good reason? He's a non-event and uninteresting where Tom Hardy's Bane is intriguing, Ledger's Jokers is FASCINATING, and Jeff Bridges' Obadiah is interesting, and so on and so forth. Hiddleston made me roll my eyes so much during that movie and sigh that I felt like my eyes would bug out.

    Agreed on Phantom Menace. It got messy. You know why I have fond memories of that movie? My wife and were married in 1999 and that was the first movie we saw as a married couple! Young, energetic, newlyweds, sky's the limit, I was in an awesome mood about life and still see that movie through that mindset. Takes me back. But objectively speaking, it was messy. But you have to agree that Ray Park's ninja cat-like Sith lightsaber duel was one for THE AGES, bro! One for the ages! I could watch that duel a million times! That man is a marvel!

    Clones had a lot of mess, too. I do like several scenes of it. The cyberpunk Blade Runneresque ripoff Couruscant stuff was interesting. I liked the Boba/Jango stuff, liked a few things. Overall the acting sucked and the last third of the movie was too visually busy and draining on the eyes...

    I was shocked and surprised when you said you laughed out loud during Revenge of the Sith!? What the heck? that movie absolutely was a home run/grand slam for the prequels if you ask me. I actually enjoyed that as much as the original movies. I thought it was just ON. Hayden Christensen was off in some scenes, but overall, dang it was just incredible imho. Loved it. Still do. Totally glued the prequels to the original flicks in a tight way. Loved it.

     
  2. Gxg (G²)

    Gxg (G²) Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7) CF Ambassadors Supporter

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    Very true. The nature of films/movies is knowing you'll never be able to put everything in it the way the comics are.

    I was still frustrated that they didn't use Kang the Conqueror or Ultron or even Baron Zemo as the villian for the next Avengers film and instead chose Thanos (who is in love with Death itself) as the next villian.

    Disagree - as Anne Hatheway's Catwoman was in a differing category than Black Widow. Personally, as a Catwoman fan and one who had a LOT of expectations on the issue with TDKR, I was highly impressed and felt she was literally the best incarnation yet - and the most faithful to the comic version (even though I'll always love the Michelle Phiefer version from Batman Returns as amongst the best and will always be a fan of the "Batman: The Animated Series" version). The music for her scenes, her interactions with Bruce, her ambiguity in morality at times/having her own code and her sheer complexity - I was digging it the whole way through.

    With Black Widow, I've seen cartoon incarnations of the character and I noticed there was always an accent - and not saying all Russians HAVE to have an accent (just like not all Hispanics must sound like they have a Spanish accent) - but it would've been interesting. I've not really been invested in the character - so the portrayal by Scarlett was not a real loss. Fight scenes from IronMan series and Avengers were a good shout out to the comics character and I thought she was complex on differing levels. To me, the character of Black Widow was never meant to steal the show in Avengers anymore than she was the main focus in the comic series. With Batman - one hero with differing villians - Selina Kyle was always going to be a main supporting character who'd get A LOT of focus. But in Avengers where there are multiple heros, I'm not expecting Black Widow to take up personal time with other heros as much...something that made Kyle stand out in the comics even more so because of the tension she brought with Batman.

    Yeah, that's pretty much a "agree to disagree." Loki seemed more complex in the THOR movie - but he was still in-depth in dialouge and witty. At times, of course, I wished more was done with him - but in Avengers, it seemed he was clearly bitter over being exiled from Asgard after trying to prove himself - and in his warped mind, felt he was helping the people of Earth by conquering them/being a king of his own realm.

    Didn't really get turned on to the Iron Man series and never really cared much for Obadiah. Bane was cool to me - as I appreciated his brilliance and representation of the Revolutionary spirit - and when I watched TDKR on DVD with subtitles so I could understand his lines, it was more enjoyable since he had so many rich lines to match his body language that they deserved to be understood. He was never menacing to me like the Joker was - as that will always be a stand out character and the best ever given in the franchise.

    The light-saber duel was truly worthwhile and my younger brother actually went home and tried to make a make-shift lightsaber on the issue and make -believe.

    Being a StarWars fan previously, I thought it was cool to see the ways they finally did a light -saber scene with a light-saber lance like other fans had hoped for. It was truly epic. The only one that comes close to it is the scene where Dooku faces Anankin and Obi-Wan for the first time in the CLONE Wars episode - and the other being where the Emperor faces Windu/the other Jedi council as well as Yoda...and where Anakin faces Obi Wan




    Clone Wars could've been better on a few things - but overall, I thought it was very engaging. The love gig with Anakin was a bit too melodramatic/annoying how much he seemed to whine....and I didn't really get Jango. You just can't beat Boba Fett - and how Jango was killed by Windu seemed way too easy after all the hype of him being the best bounty hunter in the galaxy. Just randomly go up to the man and chop off his head because he was too busy in battle. "Are you serious?" is what I thought.

    Don't get me wrong, as I enjoyed Revenge of the Sith - especially after following the comics/novelizations that connected things more so than the movies could. The developments of Anakin's fall to the Dark Side were memorable - and when my mom and I saw it together for a hang out, both of us felt how well the film explained what Obi Wan said to Anakin when saying "Your father was seduced to the Dark Side." For the ways they portrayed the Emperor literally playing on Anakin's emotions/trying to win him and make it seem like Anakin was still on the good side was intense. Even more so when seeing the ways that the Jedi often seemed to make mistakes that Anakin rightfully pointed out and that the Emperor played off on - and literally played everyone else as well.

    That said, there were several things that were flat out hilarious. When seeing the ways that Obi-Wan confronted Padme' and said "Anakin's the father isn't he? I'm sorry..."....that was way too remiscient of what you often see in the hood when saying "So Tyrese is the daddy huh? Dang..my bad." :)^_^ Everyone literally cracked up seeing that scene - and thought that Anakin was way foolish for hiding his secret love. When Darth Vader rose in anger over Padme, everyone in the theater cracked up at his saying "NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!" - as it seemed really cartoonish. The same with his asking "Where's Padme? Is she all right?":D
     
  3. Gxg (G²)

    Gxg (G²) Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7) CF Ambassadors Supporter

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    If you have a bit of black humor/black comedy as the preference at times, it is rather to crack up at certain moments:)
     
  4. gurneyhalleck1

    gurneyhalleck1 Reader

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    I hear ya...sounds like an ethnic, more racial element there as a community that inspired the humorous response. I guess in my white/mexican 30/70 community (note the 70 is Mexican, this IS California LOL), we all responded to it 180 degrees from you guys. I thought it was tragic. We all were dead quiet. There were people teared-up. It wasn't Passion of the Christ level tearing-up, but I thought it was sad. I thought the whole ending was just a downer...a necessary one, don't get me wrong, but sad and tough to watch.

    Ewan McGregor was made for Obi Wan, but a few times he made me roll my eyes. That stuff with "I hate it when he (Anakin) does that" or "that's why I hate flying" or "I have a bad feeling about this" was just dumb. Eye-rollin' material.



     
  5. gurneyhalleck1

    gurneyhalleck1 Reader

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    I agree with a lot of what you say here; good points. I never meant to imply that Catwoman and Black Widow were on the same plane as far as level of importance, but I felt like BW just wasn't a factor at all. If you're going to have her, make her relevent. CW was VERY relevent. I don't expect the powers-that-be to have made BW somehow the center of the flick, but she was really flat and just uninteresting personality-wise. The character doesn't have to be central to make a solid, fun series of moments imo. Sarlacious Crumb in Return of the Jedi made more of a contribution in that film than BW did in Avengers! LOL

    [​IMG]

    As far as what you said, 110% AGREE! Total ditto. I have said that on here and on other online forums as well! My personal favorite old school Avengers baddie was Baron Zemo. I totally loved his Masters of Evil group. Good times. He was a seriously bad dude and had a past with Cap. It would've been great. And YES again, you're dead-on with Kang. Loved that guy. Very different from Zemo, not as in your face. But he was intriguing. Anyone related to Dr. Doom and who travels back in time to ancient Egypt and loves messing with time/space continuums, gotta love him! When I was a kid, I had an action figure of him (along with a ton of others for Marvel) that I got at Mervyn's when they had a toy store (and still existed! LOL). I played with that thing like crazy! Loved him.

    Thanos was created by Starlin at Marvel and he admitted, if memory serves, that Thanos was a touch of a rip-off of Darkseid from Kirby's work at DC. Thanos was a later addition to Marvel, started in Iron Man. I don't think he's a good or logical fit to Avengers.

    But then again, I see no reason the second movie will be any better than the first. While I'm a fan of Iron Man 1, I thought 2 was rather bland. I think I.M. 3 could be better, but I'm starting to lower my expectations with these movies.

    I guess the better suspension of disbelief and polished, human story-centeredness of Nolan's Dark Knight series just got me in a different, less silly mindset. The Avengers was silly to me, not to be taken very seriously. I learn nothing and walk away with little except an "Hulk smash! Hulk smash more!" feeling. The Dark Knight stuff (and hopefully Man of Steel) just made you feel impacted by ideas AND the fun.

     
  6. Gxg (G²)

    Gxg (G²) Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7) CF Ambassadors Supporter

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    Actually, it wasn't really an ethnic thing - and in the event that what I said came off that way, let me be clear that it was a very diverse audience since people love Star Wars from all groups. You may see certain things more understood in other camps than others - but that can get easily confused with ethnicity. In example, there's no one color for Hip Hop/Urban culture. Be it White, Black, Hispanic, Asian or many others - there are certain experiences that are universal to that - and thus, one may think a joke on "Who's the Daddy?" is related to black culture when it's really a sub-set of a certain culture. There were just as many black audiences in certain parts as whites who didn't laugh during Revenge of the Sith - and many in surburbia, white or black. who cracked up due to having black comedy style of seeing certain moments meant to be solem as being a bit hilarious.

    The ending was a moment where things were serious - as it concerns Padme's funeral and the way Vader is standing besides the Emperor looking on the construction of the Death Star...and feeling bound to his fate. And people got emotional on some level. But the entire crying out of "NoooooO!!!!" felt like something straight out of a spoof of the series...like something you'd see on Saturday Night live.
    I thought it actually gave him more spunk and made him seem a bit dry british humor. Sometimes he seemed a bit like a nanny, though...
     
  7. Gxg (G²)

    Gxg (G²) Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7) CF Ambassadors Supporter

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    I think that's where I have some difference in thought. I saw the film and thought she was very relevant. She helped bring Banner back to base..helped with a lot of investigations going on. Was definately hilarious at times (like when she played Loki in making him think she came to him for help when she was really getting him to confess his plan ), had a past she wanted to escape from and had a serious concern for Hawkeye as well as the team. I didn't see her as being really pointless at all.


    Although I feel what you said, Kang was DEFINATELY in your face at times. Sometimes in a very theatric way - as he was always epic.

    The most recent cartoon version of him was even more intensive - in the event you've not already seen it....and the comic version was probably the most intense/powerful villian they ever faced. them.

    As said elsewhere, He is he Master of Time...The foremost time traveler in the Marvel Universe and arguably the Avengers greatest foe, one who has amassed an empire with a citizenry of millions/terrorized for ages. More than a tousand empires have fallen against him in different times, in different dimensions... His name is feared and respected, his tech and his genuis are among the best in the multiverse....and although he has been beaten before, what makes him deadly is the ruthelessness he has and how he always comes back deadlier than before---and the options for beating him get slimmer and slimmer. In many cases, what happens is simply that his plans are delayed and things are simply brought to a draw...

    Kang would also make a decent villain to put in a movie, assuming you are the type of person who likes time traveling stories. For in the comics, Kang kind of always just appears out of nowhere, or more appropriately, anywhen. There is usually no warning of when he will appear. Its part of his charm, as he does not exist in our time...and it's a trip that he’s defeated the Earth’s Mightiest Heroes in combat, more than once and has even conquered the entire planet Earth while it’s been under the Avengers’ watch.

    It's interesting that he's not only related to Dr.Doom - but pretty much the corrupt version of IronMan in how brilliant he is technology wise and how easily he can step in and out of existence - always biding his time. To my knowledge, most incarnations noted that he was actually related to Mr.Fantastic - being Nathaniel Richards. It is believed that Nathaniel is the father of Kang the Conqueror, which if it's true would make Kang half-brother to Mr. Fantastic.


    The battle between him and Darkseid was pretty epic - but yeah, he was Marvel's answer to what D.C had.
    Ben Kingsley hopefully will save the movie with his portrayal of the Mandarin..
    Can definately relate to that. Personally, because of the fact that differing universes had differing emphasis on character development and the TDK and TDKR was meant to be more serious in nature due to the character it was based on, I was able to handle Avengers and not take bad that it wasn't a deep intense movie the entire way throught.
     
  8. gurneyhalleck1

    gurneyhalleck1 Reader

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    Hey G.

    I'll read your last post in the AM. Gotta get to bed....very good insights about Star Wars, food for thought. Nice talking with a fellow fan who really gets into the nuts and bolts and not just the blasters and light sabres! ^_^ Good stuff.
     
  9. Gxg (G²)

    Gxg (G²) Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7) CF Ambassadors Supporter

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    Hey Gurnney,

    I'm always surprised that people don't take media more seriously - as it's just as much an issue of philosophy (as stories are concerned) as reading myths/books from antiquity or other things. We're to be students of culture and see how it shapes others - and thus, I thank you for taking time to show how one's walk as a believer involves examination of venues where concepts are expressed and othes are tempted to think.

    The Christian community must do a better job of showing people how to ask the questions that make a person media literate. If we are indeed the "royal priesthood" that we are described as, then our job description includes the command of Ezekiel 44:23, "They are to teach my people the difference between the holy and the common and show them how to distinguish between the unclean and the clean."

    We must live not as passive sponges but as mindful agents. As Bill Romanowski (author and Calvin College professor) says, "There's some good stuff out there and lots of bad stuff and, if people are going to live as mature Christians, they're going to have to learn to tell the difference." Every book has a perspective. Every TV show was written, directed and produced by people with perspectives and worldviews. Every article of every magazine that sits on the shelves of our local bookstore or airport gift shop has a perspective. And every movie that hits the silver screen has a worldview driving it.

    Nothing unbiblical or counter to discipleship with finding themes/principle in film - and again, thanks for doing that. Blessings :)
     
  10. Gxg (G²)

    Gxg (G²) Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7) CF Ambassadors Supporter

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    Truthfully - and I may take heat for this - but I'm not really hoping for much from Superman/Man of Steel.
     
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