Ironhold

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It's a good thing that Hollywood made its money in the past couple years with the likes of Endgame, the new Star Wars, Joker, and some others. Because 2020's lineup of upcoming films looks bleak. As for Joker and the Irishman..Yes, Phoenix will probably win best actor for his portrayal.

I haven't finished watching the Irishman though. It's a very long movie.

I know the feeling.

Trying to work my way through "The Seventh Seal" so I can do a retro review, but I can maybe only make it 20 minutes at a time before I start nodding off; it's just that dreadfully slow. I was wanting a good Max Von Sydow under my belt, but I may have to consider another film.
 
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SummerMadness

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1. I did in fact see 1917 just the other week. I didn't put it in my list for consideration because I just wasn't impressed with the cinematography (if you know what to look for you can tell all of the cuts and edits) and felt that the other films were a bit better in being character pieces.
Perhaps you're looking at the movie differently than the filmmaker intended? The point of the film is not about whether you can see where the cuts/edits are, it's more about why they choose to shoot in that style. You mention that you have no background in film or art and it shows; you may call people elite for studying that, but there is a reason people study medicine, law, science, journalism, etc. In film, you learn about the building blocks of filmmaking, including scripting, shot composition, lighting, editing, etc. The more you know and understand the subject, the more you can reliably critique and discuss a film.

Less than 10 feature length films have been edited as a single shot, 1917 is one of two lasting about 2 hours (the other is Birdman). If your only critique about the cinematography is you know where the cuts/edits were, that's a rather superficial critique. Was the editing sloppy? Were there many continuity issues? Do you believe it was not an effective storytelling tool? How would shooting this in a conventional style (i.e., with multiple camera angles) have changed the story? I'm not asking for a full review, but when your complaint is you know where the edits are, it sounds like you don't have any real criticism.

2. IRL, I have a spinal condition. This limits my ability to turn my head, which in turn means I have a hard time safely navigating on-ramps / off-ramps if I'm driving by myself. I need someone riding with me who can help me check traffic, and finding someone whose schedule matches my own isn't as easy as it sounds... let alone finding someone as enthusiastic about going two towns over to watch a movie that's not a sure thing.

For example, Heights had a Lionel Richie concert scheduled to air just in time for my birthday last year, but it turns out I'm the only one in my family who likes him. Since my birthday was right around Thanksgiving, it meant the friends of mine who would have been open to seeing it had plans to already be out of town by the scheduled screening date. So... I'm going to have to wait for Redbox.

In contrast, the main highway through town is just an old-school highway without any such things for me to worry about. It has traditional intersections and the businesses are right on it, and so my mirrors are more than adequate to compensate.

This presumes I even want to bother with the highway given how congested it can be, as the way the town is laid out I can get to the local theater just by going through residential zones.

So yeah -> I can literally go to the theater here in town every day of the week if I so desire, but hitting Killeen or Heights is a special trip I have to arrange ahead of time.
I'm sorry your condition prevents you from having more mobility. Nonetheless, if you're going to bill yourself as entertainment writer/film critic, you can't exclude films simply because you haven't seen them. The films critics I read and watch still talk about films they haven't seen, of course not rating the films, but they are at least aware of the films that have been released, what circuits they've been shown in (i.e., wide release, limited release, film festivals, etc.), as well as awards they have won, and why any such films are receiving any buzz. That's not an "in-crowd" thing, that's simply doing diligence in reporting entertainment news.

When your entertainment writing only revolves around what you personally like, it's really just a blog, not a entertainment column. I would encourage you to expand your film base a little more, especially since you can watch several nominees on streaming services. I would also say talk about the films more and less about the actors or entertainment writers you dislike. If you're in the business, talk about the films rather than whether someone called you a hater.
 
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Ironhold

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Perhaps you're looking at the movie differently than the filmmaker intended?

In other words, I'm doing my job then by viewing it from other angles.

Simply put, it's not realistic to presume that a film made for one single demographic will only ever be seen by that demographic. Anyone who presumes otherwise does not understand this simple fact.

The point of the film is not about whether you can see where the cuts/edits are, it's more about why they choose to shoot in that style.

Think about the people who post pictures of what they eat online. Look at the people who make it a point to show off their most artistic food in the most artistic method possible. Do they actually talk about how it tasted, if they felt full afterwords, or if it fouled their stomach? Or do they just leave it at the pictures.

That's what's happening with a lot of these films nowadays.

For example, the "Jem & The Holograms" movie may have had all sorts of glitz and glamour, but it was less progressive than the original 1980s cartoon. (1) They basically took the generic teen musical movie formula and slapped an existing brand on it without understanding what made that brand such a hit in the first place.

Or the "A Wrinkle In Time" film may have been a visual feast with the computer effects used, but it's a soulless adaptation of the source material that completely disregards the philosophical points the material was trying to make.

This is in contrast to, say, films like "Upgrade" (a bloody but well-written who-dunnit with a legit shocking twist and some very pertinent questions about technology) or "No Escape" (a worthy successor to the original "Assault On Precinct 13" in terms of selling everyday people thrust into horrific circumstances) that delivered the goods but were critically lambasted for one thing or another.

Was the editing sloppy?

Quite jarring, actually.

It's enough to take a person out of the film during the transition bits.

Nonetheless, if you're going to bill yourself as entertainment writer/film critic, you can't exclude films simply because you haven't seen them.

Did you really just tell me that I need to be talking up films I've never actually seen? Because that's how it's coming across.

The films critics I read and watch still talk about films they haven't seen, of course not rating the films, but they are at least aware of the films that have been released, what circuits they've been shown in (i.e., wide release, limited release, film festivals, etc.), as well as awards they have won, and why any such films are receiving any buzz.

Yes, you did.

By that same logic, I could easily go on about movies that were pivotal, influential, or otherwise worth discussing in regards to such-and-such area of film-making, deliberately pick films a lot of folks - including you - likely never heard of if they haven't been following a particular niche or genre, and then level the same accusation of unprofessional behavior if no one knows what I'm talking about.

Consider, for example, the film "Robot Carnival", a 1989 science fiction anthology movie: Robot Carnival - Wikipedia . This film played a pivotal role in making anime globally popular, but here in the United States it's been largely forgotten about because the license was left in legal limbo after importer Streamline Pictures suddenly went bust; it was 20 years before Discotek did a proper license rescue and began releasing it again. Even though it's arguably a niche film, I could - following your logic - turn around and accuse anyone who had no knowledge of the film of being unprofessional.

Or you've got "Heavy Metal Parking Lot", a 1986 documentary short feature: Heavy Metal Parking Lot - Wikipedia . The film was a major influence on the underground and indie documentary scenes, and reportedly influenced bands such as Nirvana. It also served to demonstrate the power of the "keep the tapes circulating!" mindset among fans of cult classic material, as the film was not legally available for most of the first decade of its existence due to rights issues.

I have two different versions of the former in my collection (a circa 2004 Southeast Asian bootleg that was being sold in the US via Canada, and the first Discotek DVD release), and the latter is readily available online. Should I feel superior to other critics for having seen them?

When your entertainment writing only revolves around what you personally like,

All critics are influenced in some way, shape, or form by their own tastes. I've literally seen critics pass or fail films on the sole basis of whether or not the work under review agrees with their socio-political views.

And no, I don't pick and choose movies to review solely based on personal interest. For new movie reviews, I've gone in to see films simply because they were the only new release of the week or because someone really wanted me to go see the film with them even if I wasn't keen on it. For my "retro" reviews of older movies, a *lot* of what I have in queue is there simply because I could get my hands on it cheaply, including things I got from $1 bins.



(1) In the original cartoon:

*It was an adult Jerrica who was vying for control of Starlight, not her boyfriend.

*Rio was Rio Pacheco, one of the few non-stereotypical Hispanic characters on television at the time.

*Pursuant to the above, the relationship between Rio and Jerrica was one of the first inter-racial relationships depicted on American children's television, coming only a year or so after "Robotech" gave us Roy Fokker (Caucasian of German descent) and Claudia Grant (either African-American or actually from Africa depending upon which source you go by) and the "G. I. Joe" cartoon gave us Quick-Kick (Chinese-American) and Amber (Caucasian).

*Sunbow being Sunbow, they frequently used the series as a platform to talk about social issues and then-current world issues with their famously deft hand, breaking things down so that kids could understand without being preachy.

The movie paved that over completely.
 
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SummerMadness

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In other words, I'm doing my job then by viewing it from other angles.
What angle is that? You have said nothing about the actual story, you did the equivalent of pointing out continuity issues.

Simply put, it's not realistic to presume that a film made for one single demographic will only ever be seen by that demographic. Anyone who presumes otherwise does not understand this simple fact.
Who said the film is made for a single demographic? Your complaint amounted to "I know where the edits were" and said little about the film itself, that's not looking at something from a different angle. That's simply sounding like a movie mistakes website (sites that still look at the overall story when rating a movie).

Think about the people who post pictures of what they eat online. Look at the people who make it a point to show off their most artistic food in the most artistic method possible. Do they actually talk about how it tasted, if they felt full afterwords, or if it fouled their stomach? Or do they just leave it at the pictures.

That's what's happening with a lot of these films nowadays.
I really have no idea what you're trying to say here.

For example, the "Jem & The Holograms" movie may have had all sorts of glitz and glamour, but it was less progressive than the original 1980s cartoon. (1) They basically took the generic teen musical movie formula and slapped an existing brand on it without understanding what made that brand such a hit in the first place.

Or the "A Wrinkle In Time" film may have been a visual feast with the computer effects used, but it's a soulless adaptation of the source material that completely disregards the philosophical points the material was trying to make.

This is in contrast to, say, films like "Upgrade" (a bloody but well-written who-dunnit with a legit shocking twist and some very pertinent questions about technology) or "No Escape" (a worthy successor to the original "Assault On Precinct 13" in terms of selling everyday people thrust into horrific circumstances) that delivered the goods but were critically lambasted for one thing or another.
What on earth are you talking about? The two films you said were poor and the one film you said was great all mirror consensus among critics.

Jem and the Holograms (2015) - 22%
A Wrinkle in Time (2018) - 42%
Upgrade (2018) - 87%

Quite jarring, actually.
What was sloppy? Explain. You previously said, "f you know what to look for you can tell all of the cuts and edits," which suggests it's not clearly visible to the casual viewer. I'm reminded of reading the goofs and mistakes in The Matrix. Literally, if you know what to look for, you'll see the errors, but it is still a great movie. You seemingly allude to the idea that the film is so poorly sequenced and constructed that it is unwatchable.

It's enough to take a person out of the film during the transition bits.
How so? Explain how you were taken out by transitions. Did you lose sense of time? Were the transitions confusing? Did you lose a sense of where you were in the story?

The film has 9 film editing and 19 cinematography nominations. If the industry professionals with technical expertise recognize this film and you, with a background in insurance, are saying the exact opposite, I don't think it's elitist to dismiss your claims because it's quite obvious you're well versed in the topic.

I feel the sense that your critique doesn't quite match the industry. Like if I wanted an analysis of CGI, I would be comfortable looking at the Corridor Crew, who can find mistakes, but still see when it doesn't distract from the overall film. Somehow, you're distracted, but the professionals, who would know where the errors are, are not distracted.


Did you really just tell me that I need to be talking up films I've never actually seen? Because that's how it's coming across.

Yes, you did.
No, I didn't say you need to talk up films you haven't seen, you simply can't say films are excluded based on the most asinine reasons like, "It did not play at my local theater." Several of those films on your exclusion list were released on streaming platforms, thus your reasoning is plain ridiculous. It's also sloppy because it demonstrates you didn't even do the research about what films are out there. And yes, you can mention other films you haven't seen that appear to be doing well, it's not talking up a film, it's simply reporting the facts. "This sports team is in first place, they have a 10-1 record," that's not "talking up" a team. It's making people aware of how different teams are doing that season.

By that same logic, I could easily go on about movies that were pivotal, influential, or otherwise worth discussing in regards to such-and-such area of film-making, deliberately pick films a lot of folks - including you - likely never heard of if they haven't been following a particular niche or genre, and then level the same accusation of unprofessional behavior if no one knows what I'm talking about.
You could spend time researching and discussing films that are overlooked by mainstream venues. You can discuss their impact, the directors and actors involved as well as the markets they are connected to. What you should not do is bash an industry and things you haven't seen and then proclaim you're excluding things based on lazy reasoning. If you had seen most of the films nominated this year, I would have no problem with you saying, "Hobbs & Shaw was by far the best movie of the year." But you ignore most of them while pointing to yourself as an entertainment writer. Most entertainment writers I know look at most everything (they cover all wide releases and most limited releases).

Consider, for example, the film "Robot Carnival", a 1989 science fiction anthology movie: Robot Carnival - Wikipedia . This film played a pivotal role in making anime globally popular, but here in the United States it's been largely forgotten about because the license was left in legal limbo after importer Streamline Pictures suddenly went bust; it was 20 years before Discotek did a proper license rescue and began releasing it again. Even though it's arguably a niche film, I could - following your logic - turn around and accuse anyone who had no knowledge of the film of being unprofessional.
You're referring to something that was not distributed in the United States at its release, thus a reviewer in the 1980s that is not aware of them is not unprofessional for not knowing something that is difficult to come by. No, unprofessional is ignoring most films that are relatively easy to access and then complaining about the industry overall. There's a big difference between not seeing a film due to license issues versus "I don't feel like driving 20 minutes away."

Or you've got "Heavy Metal Parking Lot", a 1986 documentary short feature: Heavy Metal Parking Lot - Wikipedia . The film was a major influence on the underground and indie documentary scenes, and reportedly influenced bands such as Nirvana. It also served to demonstrate the power of the "keep the tapes circulating!" mindset among fans of cult classic material, as the film was not legally available for most of the first decade of its existence due to rights issues.
Again, you're talking about something that you find on bootleg as opposed to simply driving 20 minutes. If I were to call myself a professional in an industry, I'd figure out a way to see those films... they're not really hard to see.

I have two different versions of the former in my collection (a circa 2004 Southeast Asian bootleg that was being sold in the US via Canada, and the first Discotek DVD release), and the latter is readily available online. Should I feel superior to other critics for having seen them?
This is not about feeling superior, this is about looking ignorant by claiming to be an entertainment writer but then not seeing most of the films, yet when you see many films you haven't seen are highly acclaimed, you attack the industry as being the problem. Maybe you should talk to your theater about carrying a wider variety of films? I still find it ironic that you're lambasting critics when your top film was also liked by most and received the most nominations. Oh no, these two guys don't like Joker, so it says something about Hollywood... er, the same Hollywood that just nominated the film for 11 Academy Awards and has already given Joaquin Phoenix several awards for his performance?
 
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Ironhold

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What angle is that?

I can look at multiple angles at once.

As far as 1917 goes... you're basically wanting me to give you my whole review for free.

What on earth are you talking about? The two films you said were poor and the one film you said was great all mirror consensus among critics.

"Wrinkle In Time" was one of those "Love it or you're a racist!" film that people were screaming about online.

No, I didn't say you need to talk up films you haven't seen, you simply can't say films are excluded based on the most asinine reasons like, "It did not play at my local theater."

"I am comprising this list based solely on what I've seen, as I've not seen most of the films on the official nominations roster this time around."

How is that so hard to comprehend? I'm not saying "these films don't count", but rather "I'm going off of this set, specific, and limited reference pool."
 
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SummerMadness

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I can look at multiple angles at once.

As far as 1917 goes... you're basically wanting me to give you my whole review for free.
No, we don't need your entire review, you already tried to talk about the film from a technical angle and I can tell you're an unreliable source. When industry professionals recognize the technical expertise of a film that you attack as poorly done, I chalk it up to naiveté on your end.

"Wrinkle In Time" was one of those "Love it or you're a racist!" film that people were screaming about online.
Again, this is another case of you complaining about some external bogeyman. Most critics gave the film low marks and it did not do well at the box office. Rather than just talk about the film itself, you resort to complaining about something you saw online; the movie did not perform well, why are you getting hung up on some people online (who are usually far from the public consensus)?

"I am comprising this list based solely on what I've seen, as I've not seen most of the films on the official nominations roster this time around."

How is that so hard to comprehend? I'm not saying "these films don't count", but rather "I'm going off of this set, specific, and limited reference pool."
"These <list of films> all did not (bold and marked in red to emphasize their lack of appearance) open at the theater here in town, nor did it show any of the foreign or documentary nominees. So they're automatically excluded from any list."

You just said the films don't count. There's a huge difference between the above and saying "here is what I've seen and liked so far." And since your previous posts in this thread spend so much time lambasting Hollywood, attacking other reviewers, and portraymyourself as the everyman who gets the shaft from the artsy elites, your tone sounds less offering a humble opinion and more attacking the "elite" nominations. Considering that "The Irishman", "Marriage Story", "The Two Popes", "I Lost My Body", "Klaus", "American Factory", and "The Edge of Democracy" are all nominated films that you can simply stream on Netflix now, it makes your list look more than a little sloppy.
 
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Ironhold

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Considering that "The Irishman", "Marriage Story", "The Two Popes", "I Lost My Body", "Klaus", "American Factory", and "The Edge of Democracy" are all nominated films that you can simply stream on Netflix now, it makes your list look more than a little sloppy.

Except... I don't have Netflix.

I've got a whole slew of DVDs and other matters to plow through first for the sake of "retro" reviews so that I can get them out of the house, and so unless I can take a Netflix subscription as a business expense there's no sense in my spending the money right now.

Yes, I have everything from the original "The Manchurian Candidate" to an obscure 1980s Italian zombie movie (bet you never expected those words all together, eh?) all lined up to watch, review, and sort.
 
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Ironhold

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For those just tuning in, I'll sum up:

IRL, I'm an entertainment writer. As part of it, I do one review a week.

I'm too far below the radar for most entertainment companies, so I don't get the usual promotional copies or private screenings. However, I'm just high enough that if I break with the pack in reviewing something I catch heat; I'm told, often in very obscene language, that there's something wrong with me.

Additionally, because I don't get the usual promotional screenings or copies, when I go to do a review of a new movie I go to the theater like everyone else. Thing is, I have a medical condition that limits my ability to drive under certain circumstances. This means that two of the local movie theaters are out of the question unless I can find someone willing to go up with me, which is very rare. So for all intents and purposes, I'm limited to whatever the movie theater here in town has available.

Why is this a big deal?

For one reason or another, the general trend is that at least half of the films that wind up getting awards nominations are films that never opened locally. Perhaps the studio regarded us as too small to bother with. Perhaps there weren't enough prints to go around, and we got shorted (yes, that's happened). Perhaps the theater chain itself didn't order any prints. Or perhaps Hollywood forgot about us when getting things in circulation.

Couple that with my having to pick one release out of each week to review (as I'm only reimbursed for one a week), and there's perhaps only a handful of Academy Award nominees I'll have actually seen during the official release year. As such, I generally don't pay attention to the awards show itself and merely read the results later. Furthermore, when people ask me what I'm rooting for, I briefly mention how few of the nominees I've managed to see and note my personal listings for the year based on what I have in fact seen.

It's possible that, down the road, I'll finally see the other nominees. But there's no guarantee. I just have that many films I need to watch, everything from classic masterpieces to obscure foreign niche material.

As we've seen, however, some times that's just not good enough for some people.
 
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