OSASers must believe that God created human robots!

[nobdysfool]

You're turning this into a job! The message being sent is you have to work your hind end off to stay saved! Dawn is pointing out the things you want to gloss over. You want to make this all about us, and Scripture clearly makes it all about God! And talk about dogma! The Catholic church has a ton of it!

 

[catholichomeschooler]

You're turning this into a job! The message being sent is you have to work your hind end off to stay saved! Dawn is pointing out the things you want to gloss over. You want to make this all about us, and Scripture clearly makes it all about God! And talk about dogma! The Catholic church has a ton of it!

And yet both of you have completely ignored the scripture I posted.

Is this the message?

Romans 12
1Therefore I urge you, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies a living and holy sacrifice, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service of worship. 2And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect.

 

[nobdysfool]

And yet both of you have completely ignored the scripture I posted.

Is this the message?

Romans 12
1Therefore I urge you, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies a living and holy sacrifice, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service of worship. 2And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect.

No one is ignoring that scripture. Rather insulting that you think we are. No one is saying that we can live any way we want after initial salvation. That's the common assumption by the works crowd. We realize our obligation to live as God has said we should. We take it seriously. We just don't obsess over whether or not we are saved at any particular moment, because we trust in God's Grace and His Love. We know that if we walk in the Light as He is in the Light, we are cleansed from our sins, and by that, we know that we are safe.

I honestly am beginning to wonder if the works crowd suffers from OCD.

 

[A New Dawn]

I just did.

Who endures? God, or us? What if we don't endure?

Grace gives us the strength and ability to endure. If we don't, we were never saved to begin with.

What if we don't choose the narrow gate?

God chooses who will go through the narrow gate, so if we don't enter the narrow gate, it is because we weren't chosen.

What if we aren't prepared when the bridegroom comes?

If we are saved, we will be.

What if we aren't ready for the thief in the night?

If we are saved, we will be.

I have showed you multiple scriptures but it seems like you didn't read them.

Here are more:

1 Timothy 4:1 "But the Holy Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons".

2 Peter 2:20-21 "They were made free from the evil in the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. But if they return to evil things and those things control them, then it is worse for them than it was before. Yes, it would be better for them to have never known the right way than to know it and to turn away from the holy teaching that was given to them."

John 15:4-6 "Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you, unless you abide in Me. I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me, and I in him, he bears much fruit; for apart from Me you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch, and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned".

Hebrews 10:26-27 "For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries."

Hebrews 10:29 "How much worse punishment do you think will be deserved by those who have spurned the Son of God, profaned the blood of the covenant by which they were sanctified, and outraged the Spirit?"

James 1:14-15 "But each one is tempted when he is lured away and enticed by his own desires. Then when that desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death".

Hebrews 10 is talking about a specific incident, the Jews who were converted to Jesus and went back to the old Jewish ways due to peer pressure, which included making blood sacrifices, even though they knew that the law was fulfilled in Christ. As for the rest of the verses, none of the say that enduring to the end is what saves you. That is what you read into it. It is grace through faith which saves us, so we can't boast of saving ourselves. If you want the burden of having to save yourself, and of standing before the judgment bar and telling God why you don't trust in His Son's finished work, that is on your shoulders. But you should stop trying to convince others that that is best for them, because it isn't.

 

[Marvin Knox]

Did it ever occur to you that maybe it's not what you're saying, but how you're saying it? I for one do not argue with the idea that we must follow the Spirit, listen to Him, and walk daily with Christ. I don't think anyone here argues with that. What some of us take issue with is an emphasis which focuses more on 'how to lose your salvation', than 'how to keep your salvation'. It's unbalanced. Losing salvation (if that's even possible) is not, and should not be easy. But some who advocate for and want to focus on that, make it sound like every Christian is in moment-by-moment danger of losing their salvation, even after 43 years of walking with Him (my own length of time). Such a view diminishes God's Grace, and magnifies the devil's abilities. As I said, it's unbalanced.

No one is ignoring that scripture. Rather insulting that you think we are. No one is saying that we can live any way we want after initial salvation. That's the common assumption by the works crowd. We realize our obligation to live as God has said we should. We take it seriously. We just don't obsess over whether or not we are saved at any particular moment, because we trust in God's Grace and His Love. We know that if we walk in the Light as He is in the Light, we are cleansed from our sins, and by that, we know that we are safe.

I know of many Godly men and women who believe that it is possible to walk away from the Lord and be lost again. All of them would agree that it is a relatively rare thing.

I disagree with their position. But I do understand where they get the idea from the scriptures. I believe their motive in preaching that doctrine is pure.

They are still my brothers and in some cases dear friends.

But the doctrine espoused here has been beyond the pale IMO. I have said it before and I'll say it again. Much of the rhetoric from those teaching here against OSAS runs perilously close to preaching another gospel.

 

[JLB777]

Look, you do not need to post a primer on how to be saved, or what it means to be saved. That's still avoiding what I actually said. I have been walking with the Lord since 1971. I know exactly when and where He apprehended me. He had been planting seeds and working on me for a while, and there was a moment where He said, 'It's time', and regenerated my heart so that I could believe. It's as vivid and real to me as if it just happened. I know what happened, and how it happened. My only part in it was to yield and believe. The faith was itself a gift from Him. All I did was use it. There were no words, no interaction with anyone else, it was just God, and me. I could tell you more, but in my experience, most people will not believe it. Why? Because they don't believe that anything beyond the 'natural' happens anymore, they are happy with their dry, dead letter faith, based on a book and ritual. The Book is important, the ritual is wood, hay, and stubble.

Thank you for sharing.

I believe God moved upon you and you were saved.

This thread is about Once saved always saved.

That is the mindset I am addressing, not whether you were saved or how you were saved.

I have my own testimony.

If I were to go by just my own experience, and ignore what the scriptures teach then that might be different.


We BECOME a partaker of Christ, if ...

What we BECOME is the result of holding steadfast to the end.

We have the right to BECOME sons of God... John 1:12

We are to BECOME the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus. 2 Corinthians 5:21 For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

Those who endure to the end, will be saved. Mark 13:13

The end of our faith is the salvation of our soul.

Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him. James 1:12

but Christ as a Son over His own house, whose house we are if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end. Hebrews 3:6

This is the message that is clearly presented by Jesus and His Apostles.

He will never leave us nor forsake us, we are to cling to this hope and remain steadfast in faith and confidence to the end.

We are told not to allow the deceitfulness of sin harden us so that we would turn away from Him, but rather we are to exercise godliness and keep ourselves in the love of God, building ourselves up on our most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit.


Those who cling to the false hope of OSAS see no need to obey the commands of the Apostles to exercise yourself towards godliness...as they have come to believe that a Christian can live anyway they chose even denying the Lord, and confessing Allah as Lord, and still be saved.


7 But reject profane and old wives' fables, and exercise yourself toward godliness. 8 For bodily exercise profits a little, but godliness is profitable for all things, having promise of the life that now is and of that which is to come. 1 Timothy 4:7-8



JLB

 

[nobdysfool]

I know of many Godly men and women who believe that it is possible to walk away from the Lord and be lost again. All of them would agree that it is a relatively rare thing.

I disagree with their position. But I do understand where they get the idea from the scriptures. I believe their motive in preaching that doctrine is pure.

They are still my brothers and in some cases dear friends.

But the doctrine espoused here has been beyond the pale IMO. I have said it before and I'll say it again. Much of the rhetoric from those teaching here against OSAS runs perilously close to preaching another gospel.

My point exactly! Thanks, bro!

 

[catholichomeschooler]

No one is saying that we can live any way we want after initial salvation. That's the common assumption by the works crowd. We realize our obligation to live as God has said we should.

What if you don't?

 

[catholichomeschooler]

Hebrews 10 is talking about a specific incident, the Jews who were converted to Jesus and went back to the old Jewish ways due to peer pressure, which included making blood sacrifices, even though they knew that the law was fulfilled in Christ. As for the rest of the verses, none of the say that enduring to the end is what saves you. That is what you read into it. It is grace through faith which saves us, so we can't boast of saving ourselves. If you want the burden of having to save yourself, and of standing before the judgment bar and telling God why you don't trust in His Son's finished work, that is on your shoulders. But you should stop trying to convince others that that is best for them, because it isn't.

God is quite clear that we can't save ourselves. He is also quite clear that he won't save us without our cooperation.

 

[nobdysfool]

What if you don't?

Why focus on the negative? If I don't continue to follow, trust and serve Him, it could legitimately questioned if I was ever truly saved. Is that what you want to hear? The fact is, all true Christians will persevere to the end. All of them.

I wonder sometimes if you really understand what regeneration really is, what it does, and just how changed a person is after they have experienced it. It's not a decision, the decision comes after regeneration. If regeneration does not happen, all the decisions in the world won't save you.

 

[catholichomeschooler]

Why focus on the negative? If I don't continue to follow, trust and serve Him, it could legitimately questioned if I was ever truly saved. Is that what you want to hear? The fact is, all true Christians will persevere to the end. All of them.

I wonder sometimes if you really understand what regeneration really is, what it does, and just how changed a person is after they have experienced it. It's not a decision, the decision comes after regeneration. If regeneration does not happen, all the decisions in the world won't save you.

Focus on what the bible says. Much of it is a warning, which you seem to consider negative.

Our actions matter according to Jesus and Paul.

Please try to answer the question.

You said:

We realize our obligation to live as God has said we should.



Question: What if we don't?

 

[nobdysfool]

Focus on what the bible says. Much of it is a warning, which you seem to consider negative.

Our actions matter according to Jesus and Paul.

Please try to answer the question.

You said:

We realize our obligation to live as God has said we should.



Question: What if we don't?

I answered you. Read it again.

 

[A New Dawn]

God is quite clear that we can't save ourselves. He is also quite clear that he won't save us without our cooperation.

You have had numerous opportunities to support your statement, but you keep posting things that have nothing to do with us cooperating in our salvation (without reading things into the verse, that is.) You suggest, without support, that enduring to the end is what saves us. You are relying on a position of silence to reach your conclusion instead of relying on what the Bible actually says.

 

[Tzaousios]

I see that the paranoid, anti-Calvinist robot trope is alive and well.

 

[extraordinary]

You (CHS) suggest, without support, that enduring to the end is what saves us.

This is my personal favorite ... hope you like it too ...

Matt 10:22 (also see Matt 24:13, Mark 13:13)
“And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake.
But he who endures to the end will be saved.”
.

 

[A New Dawn]

This is my personal favorite ... hope you like it too ...

Matt 10:22 (also see Matt 24:13, Mark 13:13)
“And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake.
But he who endures to the end will be saved.”
.

So you believe in salvation by works?

 

[Hammster]

Justification is by faith, not regeneration.

 

[nobdysfool]

To gain salvation, a BAC must be willing to co-operate with the Holy Spirit in removing sin. God's Spirit will lead him to repent daily of his sins (1 John 1:9), and other important things, e.g. no BAC will be saved who has unforgiveness or ANY unrepented-of habitual sin in his life.

Where does Grace fit into this? Whn you say the BAC must repent daily of his sins, do you mean the ones already forgiven, too? By virtue of the fact that he is a BAC, are his sins not already forgiven?

 

[nobdysfool]

It would be nice to get back to the OP, ridiculous as it is....

 

[nobdysfool]

Attacking someone's sig? Unreal! It accurately expresses what i believe, the misrepresentation by others notwithstanding. that only proves they don't understand it. If someone doesn't like it, too bad.