OSAS? When Are We Saved?

eleos1954

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(CLV) Mt 24:13
Yet he who endures to the consummation, he shall be saved.

Shall be is future tense.

Endures what?

All (believers) who endure the trials and tribulations of this world and until ...

Matthew 24;21

21For at that time there will be great tribulation, unmatched from the beginning of the world until now, and never to be seen again.

Matthew 24:14

14And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come (the consummation)
 
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Joyous Song

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Yet he who endures to the consummation, he shall be saved. Mt 24:13

Shall be is future tense.

Endures what?

We always believe its "to the end" that Last Trumpet of Rev.11. It fits the High Holy Days at the Last Shofar comes the Wedding Feast after Yom Kippur the days of Affliction. He also said He'd shorten the time which is why there are seven Trumpets not ten.
 
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HARK!

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He also said He'd shorten the time which is why there are seven Trumpets not ten.

I haven't seen this before.

Would you expand on this?

Oh, and I haven't seen you before either.

WELCOME TO CF!
 
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eleos1954

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Behold

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(CLV) Mt 24:13

That verse is not talking to the born again, in the " time of the Gentiles."
How do you know?
Because a person is born again in the "time of the Gentiles", not by enduring, but by "all who call on the name of Jesus, shall be saved".

Salvation in the "time of the Gentiles'... is "Justification by FAITH".....not justification by enduring.
Salvation in the "time of the Gentile" is "The GIFT of Salvation".

Salvation is complete. It was completed by Jesus on the Cross, and its offered to "as many as will believe".
= "Faith is counted as Righteousness". Not enduring.
We are saved by the Blood of Jesus.... not by enduring.

The Gospel of the Grace of God...is not....>The Cross + Self effort
 
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HARK!

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Behold

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(Future tense.)
(Present tense.)

There seems to be a contradiction here.

Not at all.

"Christ in you the HOPE of Glory"......"Glory" is Heaven. Heaven in in our future, YET< the born again are "seated in heavenly places in Christ"....RIGHT NOW.

John say....>"that you can KNOW you have Eternal life... = Present. "know" = right now.

"the finished work of Jesus on the Cross", = All sin gone.....including our Past sin.

So, Salvation is not a part time situation or solution.
Eternal Life, is actually Eternal. And we have it if we are born again.

A lot of Believers feel that God started something that He requires them to finish.
This means they actually believe that what God started with the HOLY BLOOD OF HIMSELF< = God is Christ, on the Cross.....that they can now try to continue God's acceptance by their deeds..
This is the worst type of self righteous spiritual pride.
This is the "error of Cain"....This is a person trying to keep by self effort, what Only God's Blood can Accomplish and Complete.
 
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Mr. M

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Yet he who endures to the consummation, he shall be saved. Mt 24:13

Shall be is future tense.

Endures what?

We always believe its "to the end" that Last Trumpet of Rev.11. It fits the High Holy Days at the Last Shofar comes the Wedding Feast after Yom Kippur the days of Affliction. He also said He'd shorten the time which is why there are seven Trumpets not ten.
Romans 9:28. For he will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth.
Not sure about the trumpets though, I defer on that.
 
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Behold

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Romans 9:28. For he will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth.
Not sure about the trumpets though, I defer on that.

Well, its for certain that the God who began salvation in the born again, will Himself be Faithful to complete it.
The Llood of Jesus loses none it redeems.
Jesus who saved you, will keep you saved.
Believe it.
 
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Mr. M

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Well, its for certain that the God who began salvation in the born again, will Himself be Faithful to complete it.
The Llood of Jesus loses none it redeems.
Jesus who saved you, will keep you saved.
Believe it.
Acts 3:
17 Now brothers, I know that you acted in ignorance, just as your leaders did.
18 But what God foretold through the mouth of all His prophets—that His Messiah was to suffer—so He has fulfilled.
19 Repent, therefore, and return—so your sins might be blotted out,
20 so times of relief might come from the presence of Adonai and He might send Yeshua, the Messiah appointed for you.
21 Heaven must receive Him, until the time of the restoration of all the things that God spoke about long ago through the mouth of His holy prophets.
22 Moses said, ‘Adonai your God will raise up for you a Prophet like me from among your brothers. Hear and obey Him in all that He shall say to you.
23 And it shall be that every soul that will not listen to that Prophet shall be completely cut off from the people.’
24 Indeed, all the prophets who have spoken from Samuel on have announced these days.
25 You are the sons of the prophets and also of the covenant that God cut with your fathers, saying to Abraham, ‘In your seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed.’
26 God raised up His Servant and sent Him first to you, to bless you all by turning each of you from your wicked ways.
 
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BrotherDave

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(CLV) Mt 24:13
Yet he who endures to the consummation, he shall be saved.

Shall be is future tense.

Endures what?

All those Christ died for were saved at the cross and they have eternal life (EPh2). However, we are born into a sin cursed world, with a sin cursed body and spiritually dead soul. At some point in a person’s life he/she will hear the call of the gospel and Christ will replace their dead soul with a new resurrected one (reborn, Joh3:3, 1Pete1: 23) he paid for at the cross. However, the physical body is still sin cursed (Ro 8:10) until its death when the (saved) soul then goes to be with Christ. Only those who have been saved will endure (this life’s trial tribulations) until the end when salvation shall be completed with the resurrection of the body (1 Corinth 15:51-52).
 
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HARK!

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Jesus who saved you, will keep you saved.

"Saved" is past tense.

John speaks of the future:

(CLV) Re 12:10
And I hear a loud voice in heaven saying, "Just now came the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of His Christ, for the accuser of our brethren was cast out, who was accusing them before our God day and night.
 
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Mr. M

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"Saved" is past tense.

John speaks of the future:

(CLV) Re 12:10
And I hear a loud voice in heaven saying, "Just now came the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of His Christ, for the accuser of our brethren was cast out, who was accusing them before our God day and night.
Titus 2:
11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, [past]
12 teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, [present]
13 looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,[future]
14 who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works. [ongoing process, His work]

Final Redemption includes the often overlooked covenant doctrine of inheritance/reward.
Romans 2:the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God
6 who will render to each one according to his deeds:
7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,
9 tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek;
10 but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
11 For there is no partiality with God.

1 Corinthians 3:
11 For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw,
13 each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is.
14 If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward.
15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
16 Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?
17 If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are.

2 John 1:8 Look to yourselves, that we do not lose those things we worked for, but that we may
receive a full reward.

Acts 13:
38 Therefore let it be known to you, brethren, that through this Man is preached to you
the forgiveness of sins;
39 and by Him everyone who believes is justified from ALL things from which you
could not be justified by the law of Moses.
40 Beware therefore, lest what has been spoken in the prophets come upon you:
41 Behold, you despisers! Marvel and perish! For I work a work in your days,
A work which you will by no means believe, though one were to declare it to you.

This is the inner working of the Holy Spirit, justification by faith, not law.
Ephesians 5:
6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God
upon the children of disobedience.
7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them.
8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:
9 For the fruit of the Spirit is in ALL goodness and righteousness and truth;
10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.

Luke 21:

27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.




 
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Joyous Song

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I’ve been here for over a month’s time but I tend to spend most of my time on the Scripture message board where right now I’m uploading my husband’s and my work on Revelation, starting with chapter 1. It’s a tutorial of “How to Read Revelation” and can help remove some confusion in reading that difficult book. Also this study was done on three parts and this is part 1:

You said: That you “haven't seen this before” the concept that the Last Trumpet is the seventh one of Revelation. To answer your question we decided to first draw upon our Hebrew roots. HaShem, praise be He, created for us three Festivals of Ingathering that fit into the future events:
  1. Passover (Pesach) - Christ died and rose during the Feast of Passover (that would be Passover and the Feast of Unleavened Bread). During this feast barley was waved in the Temple, which became the source of grain during this Feast. Also note, barley represents Judah.
  2. Shavuot - The Lord sent down his Spirit, Ruach HaKadosh and Neshemah. Perhaps they came as the Arikh Apin to allow the Light to come down to Zier Apin to reach the earth (Mulkut) and its people, the disciples (Zohar). During this feast the wheat was waved. Sheaf of Wheat represents Yosef the younger brother and whose name means “He shall add.”
  3. The Days of Awe and Succoth - The final Feast of Ingathering. It’s a mixed harvest (Jews and Gentiles).
 
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Joyous Song

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Part II:

The Days of Awe are ten days in which we are called to inflict ourselves. On the first day, called Rosh HaShanah, the three books are opened: The Book of Life, The Book of In-between and The Book of the Dead. On Rosh HaShanah our names could be in any of those three books.

During the ten days of the Shofar blasts we are to discipline our egos, rid ourselves of sin and humble our hearts using self inflicted tribulations (inui), Lev.16.29,31; 23.26, 29, 32; and Num.29.7. We do this in hopes of getting our names, if they are in either of the latter two books, written into the Book of Life. In theory, our names remain in whatever book throughout the remaining year.

Yom Kippur comes on the tenth day. It’s a day of fasting, a shutting of all distractions, with the hope in allowing The Light of Arikh Apin reach through the screen down to us. Then we shall know with certainty that our names are indeed written in the Book of Life. This is because once one reaches and gains a flash of this Light of Bina; they will forever hunger for it again (thus, the trust we are indeed inscribed in The Book).

Yom Kippur ends with a feast (usually dairy). The Madrish says of this feast, “go and eat your bread joyfully, drink your wine in good spirit, for HaShem has accepted your efforts” Ecc.9.7 seems to match a passage in Revelation where the Spirit says: “blessed indeed, ... that they may rest from the labors, for their deeds follow them,” Rev.14.13.

Five (joyful) days after Yom Kippur comes Succoth (Succos), The Feast of Booths. We then physically leave the comforts of our homes to dwell within temporary, holely structures so we can discipline our bodies as well as our hearts and minds to truly trust in HaShem. Again, this seems to reflect the literal tribulation of Revelation in which trusting in HaShem will be of paramount importance. Furthermore, according to Zechariah, this holiday in the Hebrew calendar will be very important to the returning HaMoshiach, Zech.14.16-19.
 
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Joyous Song

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Part III:

We see Rosh HaShanah in the Sixth Seal. Indeed our chapter for this seal is named Rosh HaShanah of the World. In chapter seven, the names of the 144,000 are written into the Book of Life because they mourned and cried out over sin (Ez.9.4-6), and thus they are sealed within this Book and from the Tribulation’s harm (Rev.7.2-4). Then the seven trumpets sound. These trumpets each carry tribulations- the first two come down upon a nation of Ephraim (7-9), the next is when a comet strikes the entire earth (10-11), followed by the fourth when Kallah (the bride of Christ, the Church) cries out her woes (13).

Just as in the fall holidays and in the Days of Awe, the afflictions grow and through these afflictions HaShem is judging sinners and training those He loves to regain the love they had lost (Rev.3.18-19). Rev.10 is an outpouring of the Spirits, as described above by the sages, is what we are to seek from HaShem on the Days of Awe.

Zier Apin (Chesed/Kindness) through Yesod (Foundation) is the rainbow wrapped cloud of Malcut (Kingdom) and Arikh Apin (Chochmah, Bina, and HaDaat) is the Sun shining from His face. The two pillars of his feet are Judgment and Balance of the Tree of Life (Ertz Chiam), His legs upon sea and world/territory; Chesed (kindness/Mercy) is broken (Zech.11.10 cf Rev.14.13), so this detail also gives a time frame, thus linking it to chapter 14.

Then the two witnesses arise and those good men beneath Y’hosua’s feet (Zech.3.8-9; 4.7) arise along side them. It’s a three and a half year ministry, after which they will die (Rev.11.7). This is why we see the seventh Shofar, the Seventh Trumpet, as the Last Shofar because it follows the world’s Yom Kippur, the Wrath (3 1/2 days), with the wedding feast of the Lamb following as well (11.15-19).

Yet it’s only seven trumpets and not ten, which says clearly the days required have been shortened (Matt.24.22). This is how we came by that connection, by using our knowledge of Hahalacha as well as Hashem’s apparent plan beneath our Hebrew Traditions.

However, one complaint is that Christ comes in chapter 19, which He does but that is part of the cycle that starts after He comes in 11 at chapter 12. There are three cycles (possibly more) and each time we go through one we get more details on the Second Coming.
 
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Joyous Song

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visionary said I believe Revelation can only be read in the light of the feasts.

We agree they play a part, but they are one part of a whole. A more complete way to say this is Revelation, to make sense, must be read with Jewish eyes, see our posts on the Scripture message board Revelation..., they are a discussion into Revelation 1 which basically proves this case.
 
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