• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.
  3. Please note there is a new rule regarding the posting of videos. It reads, "Post a summary of the videos you post . An exception can be made for music videos.". Unless you are simply sharing music, please post a summary, or the gist, of the video you wish to share.
  4. There have been some changes in the Life Stages section involving the following forums: Roaring 20s, Terrific Thirties, Fabulous Forties, and Golden Eagles. They are changed to Gen Z, Millennials, Gen X, and Golden Eagles will have a slight change.
  5. CF Staff, Angels and Ambassadors; ask that you join us in praying for the world in this difficult time, asking our Holy Father to stop the spread of the virus, and for healing of all affected.

Featured OSAS....= is Grace

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by DeepWater, Apr 22, 2019.

  1. Danthemailman

    Danthemailman Well-Known Member

    +1,120
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    Your straw man argument is nonsense.

    I have no man made doctrine to expose. Your question is an OXYMORON. Now why won't you answer my question? What are you afraid of?

    According to your logic, the apostle Peter shall have his part in the lake which burns with fire because he is a Christian who lied by denying that he knew Christ 3 times. (John 18:15-27)

    Show me the words, "no longer have eternal life" in 1 John 3:15. You are "adding" to God's Word. Whoever hates his brother is DESCRIPTIVE of unbelievers, not believers. (1 John 2:9-11; 3:10).
     
  2. JLB777

    JLB777 Newbie Supporter

    +1,117
    Non-Denom
    Married

    Born again Christians who are liars, and never repent, or confess their sin to God to be forgiven by Him, will have their part in the lake of fire.


    Same thing with any sin.


    We must repent, in order to be forgiven.


    Take heed to yourselves. If your brother sins against you, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him. And if he sins against you seven times in a day, and seven times in a day returns to you, saying, ‘I repent,’ you shall forgive him.” Luke 17:3-4


    • and if he repents, forgive him.


    If you are too proud to humble yourself before God, to confess your sin before Him, because you want to keep living in sin, then you will reap the wages of sin which is death.



    Those born again Christians who choose to walk according to the lustful desires of the flesh, and never repent, and are never cleansed of their unrighteousness, will not inherit the kingdom of God.



    Your doctrine promotes an immoral lifestyle that is not found in the Bible.




    JLB
     
  3. JLB777

    JLB777 Newbie Supporter

    +1,117
    Non-Denom
    Married

    Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15



    Here John teaches the foundation truth, that you reject, using to brothers in Christ, in His teaching.


    Whoever hates his brother... refers to a brother in Christ hating his Christian brother.

    Do Christians have eternal life?


    Yes or No?


    The answer is yes, Christians have eternal life.


    If a brother in Christ, for whatever reason, begin to hate another brother, then he is become a murderer, and no longer has the eternal life he once had.


    He must repent of his hatred and go before God and confess his sin to be forgiven and cleansed of his unrighteousness.



    JLB
     
  4. Danthemailman

    Danthemailman Well-Known Member

    +1,120
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    You need to stop confusing genuine born again Christians with "nominal" Christians who are not born of God. (Acts 11:17,18; 1 John 1:8-10; 3:7-10)

    How do you define repent? Moral self-reformation (which is not a substitute for regeneration) joined with confessing each and every sin that we commit as we commit them (keep a specific inventory of all sins) and if we overlook or forget a sin we are toast, is a flawed understanding of repentance and confession.

    The focus here is on forgiveness towards a brother who sins against you and repents and not repenting to get saved, as when we repent and believe the gospel:

    Matthew 21:32 - For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him. Mark 1:15 - Repent and believe in the gospel. Acts 11:17 - If therefore God gave them the same gift as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could withstand God?" 18 When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, "Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance unto life." Acts 20:21 - testifying both to Jews and to Greeks of repentance toward God and of faith in our Lord Jesus Christ.

    This does not describe me and your continued slanderous, false accusations are getting old. Your desperate attempt to seek confirmation of your straw man argument is also getting old. You remind me of the Pharisee in the parable of the Pharisee and the tax collector. (Luke 18:9-14)

    You just described children of the devil and not genuine born again Christians. John clearly draws a CONTRAST between children of God and children of the devil in (1 John 3:7-10). Do you even understand the difference?

    Not my doctrine. More slander. Continued straw man argument. Your doctrine (which is the result of bad semantics and flawed hermeneutics) promotes works salvation.
     
  5. Danthemailman

    Danthemailman Well-Known Member

    +1,120
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    I don't reject the teaching of John, only your flawed application of the text. *How about a little context:

    1 John 3:11 - For this is the message that you heard from the beginning, that we should love one another, 12 not as Cain who was of the wicked one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his works were evil and his brother's righteous. 13 Do not marvel, my brethren, if the world hates you. 14 We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love his brother abides in death. 15 Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.

    So according to your flawed logic, does this make Cain a brother in Christ? The one who does not love his brother/hates his brother exposes himself as an unbeliever/false brethren. *1 John 3:14 explains that love of the brethren is evidence that we have been born again. John continues the thought of he who "does not love abides in death." (unbelievers/not born of God)

    Elsewhere, in 1 John 4:7-8, we read - Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. He who does not love does not know God, for God is love. *He who loves/he who does not love. Two camps.

    1 John 2:9 - He who says he is in the light, and hates his brother, is in darkness until now. (You call that saved?) 10 He who loves his brother abides in the light, and there is no cause for stumbling in him. 11 But he who hates his brother is in darkness and walks in darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes. Children of God abide in the light and children of the devil walk in darkness and are in darkness until now.

    1 John 3:10 - In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother.

    The answer is absolutely yes. Genuine Christians have eternal life. (John 3:18; 5:24; 1 John 5:11-13) :)

    Where do we see the word's, "brother in Christ begins to hate another brother/no longer has eternal life he once had" etc.. in 1 John 3:15? You are "adding" your own commentary to God's Word and by doing so are ADDING TO GOD'S WORD! :eek:

    Once again, you are confusing children of God with children of the devil. This is what unbelievers must do. (1 John 1:8-10; 2:9; 3:10)
     
  6. JLB777

    JLB777 Newbie Supporter

    +1,117
    Non-Denom
    Married

    Can you show me the scripture that teaches us about “nominal Christians”?


    JLB
     
  7. JLB777

    JLB777 Newbie Supporter

    +1,117
    Non-Denom
    Married
    Are you trying to say it’s impossible for a brother in Christ to hate his brother?


    Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15


    Please show me the scripture that say it’s impossible for one brother in Christ to hate another brother in Christ.


    JLB
     
  8. Danthemailman

    Danthemailman Well-Known Member

    +1,120
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    Do you understand what a “nominal” Christian is? It simply means such people are (in name only) Christians, but are not genuine Christians. Scripture describes such people as false apostles, false teachers, false brethren, wolves in sheep’s clothing etc.. (Matthew 7:15-23; Acts 20:28-31; Corinthians 11:13-15; Galatians 2:4 etc..).
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2019
  9. Danthemailman

    Danthemailman Well-Known Member

    +1,120
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    According to scripture, whoever hates his brother is in darkness until now/walks in darkness/is a child of the devil/remains-abides in death/is a murderer who does not have eternal life abiding in him/does not know God/is not of God. (1 John 2:9,11; 3:10; 3:14-15; 1 John 4:8) The Greek word for "hates" is "miseo" - Strong's #3404 which means hate, detest, love less. The Thayer's definition is to pursue with hatred, detest, to be hated, detested. Hatred is seen in the eyes of God as murder. Hate is the seed that leads to murder, which was seen in the example of hatred that Cain had for Abel which resulted in his murder.

    Descriptive of someone who is not born of God/unbeliever/child of the devil.

    I showed you in scripture that whoever hates his brother is in darkness until now/walks in darkness/is child of the devil/remains-abides in death/is a murderer who does not have eternal life abiding in him/does not know God/is not of God. (1 John 2:9,11; 3:10; 3:14-15; 1 John 4:8) Now show me where scripture says otherwise.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2019
  10. JLB777

    JLB777 Newbie Supporter

    +1,117
    Non-Denom
    Married

    That is your man made term that you created to prop up your man made doctrine.


    The Bible was written to God’s people.


    All liars, Christian or otherwise will have their part in the lake of fire.



    But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”
    Revelation 21:8



    Christians who are “in Christ” then later are removed from Christ, will end being cast into the fire and burned.


    If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6


    Here is how we are instructed to remain “in Christ”.


    Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24




    JLB
     
  11. JLB777

    JLB777 Newbie Supporter

    +1,117
    Non-Denom
    Married

    If a born again Christian discovers that a member of his church has been committing adultery with his wife, and begins to hate that brother, and never deal with it, then he has become a murderer.


    Very simple.




    JLB
     
  12. Danthemailman

    Danthemailman Well-Known Member

    +1,120
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    I used scripture to back up my argument. The Bible talks about false apostles, false teachers, false brethren, wolves in sheep’s clothing etc.. which are (in name only) Christians, so the term "nominal" fits in describing such people.

    Yet not everyone who is being discussed in God's word are God's people, hence - false apostles, false teachers, false brethren, wolves in sheep’s clothing etc.. So much for your man made doctrine.

    Christians are not seen in the eyes of God as liars, murderers, fornicators, thieves, extortioners etc.. because their sins have been washed away by the blood of Christ (Romans 3:24-26; Ephesians 1:7) and their faith has been accounted as righteous (Romans 4:5-6; Philippians 3:9). :oldthumbsup:

    1 Corinthians 6:9 - Do you not know that the unrighteous (not the righteous) will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God. :oldthumbsup:

    Descriptive of the unrighteous/unbelievers.

    "Nominal" Christians are not in the body of Christ, but are "self attached to the vine." As Greek scholar AT Robertson points out - Two kinds of connections with Christ as the vine (the merely cosmic which bears no fruit, the spiritual and vital which bears fruit). The fruitless (not bearing fruit, mh peron karpon) the vine-dresser "takes away" (airei) or prunes away. Probably (Bernard) Jesus here refers to Judas. - John 15:2 Commentary - Robertson's Word Pictures of the New Testament

    The branches that bear fruit and remain are believers (like the remaining 11 disciples). The self-attached branches (cosmic connection) that bear no fruit and do not remain are not believers (like Judas Iscariot) and those who were offended by the words of Jesus and walked with Him no more (John 6:60-64). In John 15, Jesus mentions branches that bear no fruit and branches that bear fruit (verse 2) but Jesus says nothing about branches that bear fruit but then later stop bearing fruit.

    When Jesus spoke these words in John 15, how many people at that time, prior to Him being glorified, had received the Holy Spirit and were baptized by one Spirit into one body? - "the body of Christ?" (1 Corinthians 12:13) -- NONE.

    John 7:38 - He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water. 39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified. So "in me" is part of the metaphor of the vine, (in the vine) and not in the body of Christ under the new covenant which was not yet fully established. Without that vital union with Christ, there can be no spiritual life and no productivity. Those who profess to know Christ but whose relationship to Him is self-attached, Christ neither saves them nor sustains them. Eventually, the dead self-attached fruitless branches are cut off.

    Those who remain demonstrate they have that vital connection with the vine. Those who fail to remain demonstrate they don't have that vital connection with the vine. The word "abide" is from the Greek word "meno" which means to remain, tarry, not to depart, continue to be present. This is not something that only elite saints do. 1 John 4:13 - By this we know that we abide in Him, and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit.. 15 Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God.

    This is the demonstrative evidence that we abide in Him. 1 John 2:3 - By this we know that we have come to know Him -- (already know Him/already saved/demonstrative evidence) if we keep (guard, observe, watch over) His commandments. The Greek word for "keep" is "tereo" (Strong's #5083) which means to guard, observe, watch over) His commandments. *Nothing here about salvation by works.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • List
  13. Danthemailman

    Danthemailman Well-Known Member

    +1,120
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    Chapter and verse please. Why are you so determined to create a second camp of Christians who will be condemned? o_O Does it make you feel proud to believe that other Christians will lose their salvation, but surely, this would never happen to you?
     
  14. ace of hearts

    ace of hearts Well-Known Member

    +1,145
    United States
    Christian
    Private
    Isn't hate what denominations are really about?
     
  15. ace of hearts

    ace of hearts Well-Known Member

    +1,145
    United States
    Christian
    Private
    Essentially you've stooped to attacking another which means you have no valid argument.
     
  16. ace of hearts

    ace of hearts Well-Known Member

    +1,145
    United States
    Christian
    Private
    Straw man argument to support your doctrine.
     
  17. JLB777

    JLB777 Newbie Supporter

    +1,117
    Non-Denom
    Married

    No the term “nominal Christian” is not a biblical term.

    It’s a man made term to promote man’s doctrine.



    If a born again Christian discovers that a member of his church has been committing adultery with his wife, and begins to hate that brother, and never deal with it, then he has become a murderer.


    Very simple.




    JLB
     
  18. JLB777

    JLB777 Newbie Supporter

    +1,117
    Non-Denom
    Married

    Does it make you feel proud that Christians will go to hell because you are promoting a doctrine that will cause them to be removed from Christ?


    Why not teach Christians to abide in Christ?



    If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6


    Here is how we are instructed to remain “in Christ”.


    Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24



    JLB
     
  19. JLB777

    JLB777 Newbie Supporter

    +1,117
    Non-Denom
    Married
    The Bible was written to God’s people.


    All liars, Christian or otherwise will have their part in the lake of fire.



    But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”
    Revelation 21:8



    Christians who are “in Christ” then later are removed from Christ, will end being cast into the fire and burned.


    If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6


    Here is how we are instructed to remain “in Christ”.


    Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24




    JLB
     
  20. JLB777

    JLB777 Newbie Supporter

    +1,117
    Non-Denom
    Married

    Sin is hate.


    Hating God and hating His people.



    JLB
     
Loading...