OSAS....= is Grace

[Romans 8]

If one of His sheep wander away from Him and become lost, don’t they need to repent, and return to Him in order to be found?


“What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:4-7

• I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.

One of His sheep, that becomes lost, has returned to being a sinner in need of repentance, in order to be justified, in order to be reconciled back to Him.


Do the lost need salvation?




JLB

I suggest you do some more research on the matter. And think about this:

If you have one guy who's OSAS, and one guy who's not. They both seek God, sin, repent, seek God, sin, repent, as the pattern goes. The guy who believes OSAS has faith that's unwavering, he's not questioning his salvation every 5 minutes. His relationship with God is more secure and he shall grow faster.
The non OSAS guy questions his salvation each time he sins, and now he believes he needs to repent, not to keep in good standing with God, but in order to regain his salvation. So how many times by the end of his life has this man actually been saved? The Bible doesn't speak of more than one salvation. We get saved once, after which His Spirit witnesses with ours, this is when regeneration begins. When we become saved, God sees us as perfect in Heaven because he references Jesus Christ. Here on earth we are not yet perfect, but we are being regenerated, like a tractor beam, pulling us slowly towards Christ to become like him.

 

[Ttalkkugjil]

You must use the KJV if you want the accurate version. Other versions will of course twist verses like these, along with many other verses.

I believe that the accurate version is the WYC.

 

[GodsGrace101]

I'v been contemplating this exact topic recently. I read in a Watchman Nee book that we are BORN of God (born again), and this is how we become His children, not through mere adoption. But then I looked up the word adoption in Greek and it seems to mean adoption as in our contemporary understanding.

I've been very against the notion of OSAS but your argument is logical. I'm interested in how this conversation goes. Thank you for taking the time to post on this topic of utmost importance.

What let's the statement of the O.P......logical?

 

[GodsGrace101]

The doctrine of losing salvation stems from unbelief in the gospel

Where in the gospel does it say salvation cannot be lost? It speaks of being lost many times....

 

[GodsGrace101]

I suggest you do some more research on the matter. And think about this:

If you have one guy who's OSAS, and one guy who's not. They both seek God, sin, repent, seek God, sin, repent, as the pattern goes. The guy who believes OSAS has faith that's unwavering, he's not questioning his salvation every 5 minutes. His relationship with God is more secure and he shall grow faster.
The non OSAS guy questions his salvation each time he sins, and now he believes he needs to repent, not to keep in good standing with God, but in order to regain his salvation. So how many times by the end of his life has this man actually been saved? The Bible doesn't speak of more than one salvation. We get saved once, after which His Spirit witnesses with ours, this is when regeneration begins. When we become saved, God sees us as perfect in Heaven because he references Jesus Christ. Here on earth we are not yet perfect, but we are being regenerated, like a tractor beam, pulling us slowly towards Christ to become like him.

You apparently don't know what repent means.
You don't REPENT every time you sin.
I sometimes wonder if we're all reading the same bible.

What you state at the end of your post is called sanctification or progressive justification. This is our walk with God throughout our life...INCLUDING when we sin. Because we sin does NOT mean that we turn away from God...it means we fell, we get up and keep going.

REPENTANCE, instead, means changing our mind, turning in the other direction. We only repent ONE time in our life (maybe two)...this happens when we decide to stop serving satan and start serving God.
We have changed our mind...we have stopped walking toward satan; we turn the other way and walk toward God. This is justification, totally a work of grace and totally done by God.

Where did you learn that every time you sin you lose your salvation? This is nonsense.

 

[GodsGrace101]

It’s a difficult transition. I've been meeting with a Baptist Pastor for Bible studies every week for the past couple months. He’s been telling me that I’m saved and I’ve not fully believed him until more recently.
It’s a very difficult thing for some of us to believe it’s that easy. That we don’t have to do anything at all in order to receive salvation by grace. I’m finally starting to get it, but I still can't quite fathom it. It's just antithetical to everything I've learned in life. Like, there's a certain level of submitting needed in order to accept this gift. We need to give up our need to control and attempts to steer our own destiny.

To receive salvation by grace you only need to believe in Jesus and His saving work and His resurrection.

To remain saved you'll need sanctification and this will require your cooperation with God. This idea that God "does it all" is a modern idea and is not correct.

2 Thessalonians 2:13
13 But we ought always to thank God for you, brothers and sisters loved by the Lord, because God chose you as firstfruits to be saved through the sanctifying work of the Spirit and through belief in the truth.

Sanctify: to be set apart for service to God.

 

[tampasteve]

MOD HAT ON
​

This thread has had a clean of flaming/goading posts, and posts in reply or in conjunction with said flaming/goading posts. Please refrain from these actions, keep it civil and clean.

​

MOD HAT OFF​

 

[GodsGrace101]

There's a difference between being saved and a conversion experience.

Sorry,,,,did you tell us the difference??

 

[JLB777]

I suggest you do some more research on the matter. And think about this:

If you have one guy who's OSAS, and one guy who's not. They both seek God, sin, repent, seek God, sin, repent, as the pattern goes. The guy who believes OSAS has faith that's unwavering, he's not questioning his salvation every 5 minutes. His relationship with God is more secure and he shall grow faster.
The non OSAS guy questions his salvation each time he sins, and now he believes he needs to repent, not to keep in good standing with God, but in order to regain his salvation. So how many times by the end of his life has this man actually been saved? The Bible doesn't speak of more than one salvation. We get saved once, after which His Spirit witnesses with ours, this is when regeneration begins. When we become saved, God sees us as perfect in Heaven because he references Jesus Christ. Here on earth we are not yet perfect, but we are being regenerated, like a tractor beam, pulling us slowly towards Christ to become like him.

Are you going to examine and discuss the scriptures that I have posted in this thread?


Here they are again -

He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4


again


Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15


again



If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6


Christians who do not remain in Christ, are gathered up and cast into the fire and burned.


Here’s how the Bible instructs us to remain in Christ.


Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24



JLB

 

[DeepWater]

In Hebrews 6:4-8 we've the reason why growth cannot be thought of in certain people's case. We must examine this passage closely if we want to grasp the meaning.

Priscilla declares that it's an impossibility for certain persons to be renewed,

All legalists live in Hebrews, Matthew, James, and the Old Testament.
And if you care, (reader) to do a bit of "rightly dividing", i'll show you something.

1. "Church Doctrine", "sound doctrine", is what you learn from Paul.
2. Not all the apostles had the same revelation, regarding Salvation = Grace Thru Faith...at the same time. A case in point, is Acts 10, which is about 10yrs after Jesus ascended.....Peter still does not know, 10 years after the Cross, that everyone can be saved, and not just the jews. So God teaches him, by revelation.. So, this shows us, that not every apostle had exactly the same revelation, as others, at the SAME TIME. So, when you read a scripture that an apostle wrote, that SEEMS to contradict Paul, then realize that this is because that apostle does not have a certain revelation fully realized, yet, at the time he is writing his letter.

3.) When God wants a book in the NT, to be understood as given to the Church, which means, it was written to and for the benefit of .... the born again.. Then the apostle will greet the particular born again person or the Church with a GREETING. (Chapter 1, first verses) But, when the book is not directed to a born again person, or the Christian church.....then there is no "Church greeting", as you find with the book written to the HEBREWS (unsaved Jews)...So, you have to read the verses carefully, so that you understand that the apostle is not always talking to the believers.
For example. Hebrews ... "If we sin willfully, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sin"..
So, this verse is twisted by legalists that try to subvert your Salvation in Christ, and put it on you, to save yourself, and keep yourself saved..
Now watch this.... " if we sin willfully"....(if we reject CHRIST)......there remaineth, no more sacrifice for sin".....>(there is no other way to be saved)....
Paraphrase......if you die as a Christ rejector, then you die with no way for your sin to be forgiven.... as you have not been BORN AGAIN.
= Sinning Willfull, and dying.....as there is NO OTHER SACRIFICE for your sin, then Christ, and if you willfully sinfully reject the GOSPEL, and die UNSAVED... then you have rejected the CROSS, or "trodden it underfoot", and have done "despite to the Spirit of Grace".....= You have rejected the wooing, and drawing, and call of the HOLY Spirit....You have resisted the convicting power of the Holy Spirit, when you heard the preaching of the Cross.... = This is Hebrews, in Chapters 4-6-10....where the Apostle is preaching to UNSAVED HEBREWS.......and not to the born again.
So, this HEBREWS verse that speaks of "sinning willfully", (rejecting Christ as messiah), can't be talking to the Church, or a group of believers, because no Apostle is going to be trying to get the born again to receive Christ... or warn them what will happen if they reject Christ....as they are already born again "In Christ".

This is "rightly dividing" these verses found in Hebrews... a book that is dedicated to the HEBREWS, and not the Christian Church.

 

[Romans 8]

You apparently don't know what repent means.
You don't REPENT every time you sin.
I sometimes wonder if we're all reading the same bible.

What you state at the end of your post is called sanctification or progressive justification. This is our walk with God throughout our life...INCLUDING when we sin. Because we sin does NOT mean that we turn away from God...it means we fell, we get up and keep going.

REPENTANCE, instead, means changing our mind, turning in the other direction. We only repent ONE time in our life (maybe two)

We should repent every time we sin. Otherwise we keep on sinning. If our addiction is alcohol, we can have relapses. If we don't repent (do the opposite of drinking), then we simply keep on drinking. So we must confess our sin and repent no matter how many times the enemy temps us to get back into our sin. This is a very simple concept, there's no reason to make it complicated.

...this happens when we decide to stop serving satan and start serving God. We have changed our mind...we have stopped walking toward satan; we turn the other way and walk toward God. This is justification, totally a work of grace and totally done by God.

This is called being reborn. This only happens once. We don't keep getting reborn every time we sin.

Where did you learn that every time you sin you lose your salvation? This is nonsense.

And you are the ones saying it. You're saying that we can lose our salvation if we fall away. How do we fall away? Through sin. So then, if not every time, then when will we lose our salvation? Every second sin? Third? What's the formula?

 

[JLB777]

All legalists live in Hebrews, Matthew, James, and the Old Testament.
And if you care, (reader) to do a bit of "rightly dividing", i'll show you something.

How about Romans?


Here is who will receive eternal life at the end of the Day.

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality

God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:6-8



Or maybe you prefer John -


all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—

• those who have done good, to the resurrection of life,
• and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation

Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 5:28-29



Let me know if you need some more, because there is plenty more from Galatians, Ephesians, 1 Corinthians...




JLB

 

[JLB777]

We should repent every time we sin. Otherwise we keep on sinning. If our addiction is alcohol, we can have relapses. If we don't repent (do the opposite of drinking), then we simply keep on drinking. So we must confess our sin and repent no matter how many times the enemy temps us to get back into our sin. This is a very simple concept, there's no reason to make it complicated.



This is called being reborn. This only happens once. We don't keep getting reborn every time we sin.



And you are the ones saying it. You're saying that we can lose our salvation if we fall away. How do we fall away? Through sin. So then, if not every time, then when will we lose our salvation? Every second sin? Third? What's the formula?
I don't like your attitude so far in this thread you've got more problems than just a simple theological mix up. You smell bad. You need to change your diaper and clean up afterwards too.

How about His sheep, who wander away and become lost?


Do the lost need salvation?


Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’



What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:4-7

• I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.

Do you see that one of His sheep who wanders away and becomes lost is a sinner in need of repentance, just as they were before they were saved?


The 99 remain “just”.



JLB

 

[Monk Brendan]

Sorry,,,,did you tell us the difference??

No, I didn't.

 

[Romans 8]

Are you going to examine and discuss the scriptures that I have posted in this thread? He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4

This is essentially Romans 8 where Paul lives by the Spirit of Life, rather than the Law of sin and death. We cannot keep His commandments. Only He can as He works through us. This has nothing to do with salvation. Next!

Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15

This is a teaching for non-believers. Did you know that Apostle Paul both hated and killed Christians before Damascus? Do you think Paul was forgiven for his sins? Next!

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6

These are verses for non-believers. You're taking everything out of context.

Christians who do not remain in Christ, are gathered up and cast into the fire and burned.

This is not true. Please take the wisdom out of this thread that many have already dolled out. OSAS is the truth. God is not dangling our salvation from a hook and string.

Here’s how the Bible instructs us to remain in Christ.
Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24

This is a born-again believer. We cannot keep His commandments without the Holy Spirit. It's not possible. We do not have to DO anything. The Holy Spirit does it for us. That's what this verse means.

 

[Romans 8]

How about His sheep, who wander away and become lost?
Do the lost need salvation?
Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’
What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:4-7

• I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.

Do you see that one of His sheep who wanders away and becomes lost is a sinner in need of repentance, just as they were before they were saved?

The 99 remain “just”.

JLB

This is one of the most beautiful verses of the bible. This is about His children (Christians) and how much He cares for us. The lost sheep are those that have backslidden, have gotten lost and are in the hands of the enemy. This does not mean they are unsaved. God goes looking for His sheep when they are lost, knowing the rest of the sheep are safe. With His Word and by the Holy Spirit He brings us back. He cares for us that much.
To sum it up, this verse tells us that the Holy Spirit is regenerating even those that seem to be so lost as to have no hope. We are all being reconciled and brought to good standing with God, even those that are lost.

 

[JLB777]

This is essentially Romans 8 where Paul lives by the Spirit of Life, rather than the Law of sin and death. We cannot keep His commandments. Only He can as He works through us. This has nothing to do with salvation. Next!

His Spirit, working in us to walk in righteousness, is what all Christians are called to do.



There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. Romans 8:1


For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Romans 8:5-6



Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. Romans 8:12-13





JLB

 

[JLB777]

This is one of the most beautiful verses of the bible. This is about His children (Christians) and how much He cares for us. The lost sheep are those that have backslidden, have gotten lost and are in the hands of the enemy. This does not mean they are unsaved. God goes looking for His sheep when they are lost, knowing the rest of the sheep are safe. With His Word and by the Holy Spirit He brings us back. He cares for us that much.
To sum it up, this verse tells us that the Holy Spirit is regenerating even those that seem to be so lost as to have no hope. We are all being reconciled and brought to good standing with God, even those that are lost.

His sheep who become lost, are sinners in need of repentance.



Do the lost need salvation?




JLB

 

[Romans 8]

His sheep who become lost, are sinners in need of repentance.



Do the lost need salvation?




JLB

The lost sheep are already saved. God isn't chasing down non-believers, they are not of His flock, they are of the enemy.

EDIT: I got this wrong. This verse is about God chasing down no-believers. Christians are already part of His flock.

 

[Romans 8]

His Spirit, working in us to walk in righteousness, is what all Christians are called to do.



There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. Romans 8:1


For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Romans 8:5-6



Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. Romans 8:12-13





JLB

Romans 8 is all about living according to the Spirit so that we don't sin anymore. Romans 8 is the pinnacle of the Bible, the point we all should aspire to reach. Romans 8 is beyond salvation, it's the highest point we can reach while here on earth.