OSAS....= is Grace

DM25

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Why do you keep warming me when I clearly stated that I'm sitting on the OSAS side of the scale. Check your motivation here, it seems a bit self serving.



A Christian can commit blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. It simply means that one crosses the line between light and darkness by so far that recovery is impossible. Not because he can't be forgiven, but because he is so lost in himself, he's reached the point of no return.
You are not on the side of OSAS if you think that. NOTHING no sin not works NOTHING can separate a believer from him when he gets born again. A Christians CAN'T commit the blasphemy of the holy spirit. Are you kidding me? You think if you sin too much that's blasphemy of the holy spirit? You think you can lose your salvation if you sin too much when we ALL sin?
 
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Carl Emerson

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The entirety of the old testament sacrificial system was solely for sins of ignorance. There was no atonement under the law for mortal sin.
Jeremiah is speaking of the New Covenant to come - it has Zero to do with OT law.
 
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Romans 8

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You are not on the side of OSAS if you think that. NOTHING no sin not works NOTHING can separate a believer from him when he gets born again. A Christians CAN'T commit the blasphemy of the holy spirit. Are you kidding me? You think if you sin too much that's blasphemy of the holy spirit? You think you can lose your salvation if you sin too much when we ALL sin?

I'm not sure if your problem lies in that you're not reading people's posts, or if you're just not understanding them. Go back and read my posts before replying, you keep missing the target.
 
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DM25

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Truely born again believers have given up the 'rights' in their lives to Him. They have preferred to say Thy will be done - rather than my will be done.
If you are referring to works, there are carnal Christians who exist. 1 Corinthians talks about them. I've never met any personally, every born again free grace believing Christian I met are awesome people, but they do exist and God will discipline them accordingly. If we meet one we need to in love come to them and tell them their errors and to mature in Christ, just as Paul did to the people in the book of 1 Corinthians. Not judge them or claim they are not saved. Salvation is by one person, Christ, not us or our works. But if they keep living in wickedness there surely will be consequences here on earth and loss of rewards in heaven.

1 Corinthians 3:15
"If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire."

This means they will barely be saved from hell fire, lowest in the kingdom and loss of rewards. Plus there are the consequences on earth.

Matthew 5:19 – Some are called "least in the kingdom of heaven" because they sin and cause others to sin, while others are called "great in the kingdom of heaven."

Luke 8:11-15 – "Some who believe do not grow because of the distractions of worldly temptations and pleasure"


Believers who live in wickedness may receive consequences on earth. These are earthly temporal consequences. Also lack of growth and sin makes people feel separated from God so their have an unhealthy spiritual life and can suffer anguish from their spiritual sickness. It's not something we ever want to encourage people to do, which is why Paul instructs baby Christians and those believers who are carnal in 1 Corinthians. We want a healthy spiritual life and solid relationship with God not an unhealthy one. God disciplines and chastises his children only like a loving parent would, and he would cause early death to his children because he doesn't want to see them live in a way that leads them to destruction in this life. But he doesn't give up on them and throw them in the fire and kill them.... Like a loving parent wouldn't.

UNBELIEVERS who live in wickedness may live a great life here though. Look at all the rich celebrities and politicians and all the things they have of this world. But because they refuse to come to Jesus, in the next life they won't go to heaven but go to hell and perish and be eternally separated from God.

As you can see, the state of the next life and your eternal life is dependent on if you accept the free gift by believing in Jesus Christ and that salvation is by him and him alone. Not your works. Works are important as I noted above, but they don't give you eternal life, only Jesus does. We are only justified and made righteous through Jesus Christ. It's important you guys realize that. And no, you cannot lose salvation. We are secured eternally and sealed until the day of redemption. Once saved always saved is true, simple as that.
 
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Romans 8

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If you are referring to works, there are carnal Christians who exist. 1 Corinthians talks about them. I've never met any personally, every born again free grace believing Christian I met are awesome people, but they do exist and God will discipline them accordingly. If we meet one we need to in love come to them and tell them their errors and to mature in Christ, just as Paul did to the people in the book of 1 Corinthians. Not judge them or claim they are not saved. Salvation is by one person, Christ, not us or our works. But if they keep living in wickedness there surely will be consequences here on earth and loss of rewards in heaven.

1 Corinthians 3:15
"If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire."

This means they will barely be saved from hell fire, lowest in the kingdom and loss of rewards. Plus there are the consequences on earth.

Matthew 5:19 – Some are called "least in the kingdom of heaven" because they sin and cause others to sin, while others are called "great in the kingdom of heaven."

Luke 8:11-15 – "Some who believe do not grow because of the distractions of worldly temptations and pleasure"


Believers who live in wickedness may receive consequences on earth. These are earthly temporal consequences. Also lack of growth and sin makes people feel separated from God so their have an unhealthy spiritual life and can suffer anguish from their spiritual sickness. It's not something we ever want to encourage people to do, which is why Paul instructs baby Christians and those believers who are carnal in 1 Corinthians. We want a healthy spiritual life and solid relationship with God not an unhealthy one. God disciplines and chastises his children only like a loving parent would, and he would cause early death to his children because he doesn't want to see them live in a way that leads them to destruction in this life. But he doesn't give up on them and throw them in the fire and kill them.... Like a loving parent wouldn't.

UNBELIEVERS who live in wickedness may live a great life here though. Look at all the rich celebrities and politicians and all the things they have of this world. But because they refuse to come to Jesus, in the next life they won't go to heaven but go to hell and perish and be eternally separated from God.

As you can see, the state of the next life and your eternal life is dependent on if you accept the free gift by believing in Jesus Christ and that salvation is by him and him alone. Not your works. Works are important as I noted above, but they don't give you eternal life, only Jesus does. We are only justified and made righteous through Jesus Christ. It's important you guys realize that. And no, you cannot lose salvation. We are secured eternally and sealed until the day of redemption. Once saved always saved is true, simple as that.

If you believe that every believer has been sealed with His Spirit, why are you telling believers they're condemned for not believing OSAS? If they believe in their heart, and confess with their mouths that Jesus is Lord and died on the cross, was resurrected, and is now seated at the right hand of God, they are saved. I don't believe your argument is congruent. This inconsistency is referred to as a contradiction which means there's a breakdown in your logic.

Also, you're lecturing Carl on works in your last post, in response to his statement about our will vs God's will. It's a different subject.

You've contributed to this thread which should be acknowledged but take something away from here as well. Listen to others because you're very loud and seem to read what you want as if you have grooves already formed and you just drop the needle and let your ideas play.
 
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Romans 8

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No, losing your salvation is a false teaching that leads to hell. In fact I'm at the point in my walk where I am mature enough to break fellowship with anyone who doesn't believe in OSAS. It really is part of fundamental core doctrine all Christians must agree on. If you don't, you aren't saved. Because you don't trust Jesus alone and think you can do something to get saved or lose salvation. Your teaching is heresy from the pit of hell, and I rebuke it in Jesus' mighty name.

This is what I'm talking about. You're using the same tactics as the devil by telling people they aren't saved. If people are *believers*, they are saved. That's it. You're the one putting conditions on their salvation. The devil wants us to think we're not saved. As you said yourself, this is the point of teachings that go against OSAS. And this is exactly what you're doing. You need to repent for this. You're a hypocrite, a Pharisee.
 
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DM25

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This is what I'm talking about. You're using the same tactics as the devil by telling people they aren't saved. If people are *believers*, they are saved. That's it. You're the one putting conditions on their salvation. The devil wants us to think we're not saved. As you said yourself, this is the point of teachings that go against OSAS. And this is exactly what you're doing. You need to repent for this. You're a hypocrite, a Pharisee.
How can someone be saved if they don't trust Jesus is enough? If they feel they can lose their salvation over something they do? I'm not saying who is saved or who sin't only God knows that. I just don't know how someone who believes in the finished work of Jesus Christ can deny eternal security.
 
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Romans 8

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How can someone be saved if they don't trust Jesus is enough? If they feel they can lose their salvation over something they do? I'm not saying who is saved or who sin't only God knows that. I just don't know how someone who believes in the finished work of Jesus Christ can deny eternal security.

You're building a strawman and a false dichotomy. Just because some people don’t believe OSAS, doesn’t mean they fit into your box, meaning they are relying on them selves for salvation. Ask any of them and they’re going to tell you that Jesus saves us not themselves. Let’s be honest with what’s being presented.
 
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DM25

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You're building a strawman and a false dichotomy. Just because some people don’t believe OSAS, doesn’t mean they fit into your box, meaning they are relying on them selves for salvation. Ask any of them and they’re going to tell you that Jesus saves us not themselves. Let’s be honest with what’s being presented.
As I said before, despite it being wrong, I don't think someone thinking they lose salvation over simply choosing to no longer believe is as big of an issue (although that would be wrong too). It's the idea that you can lose your salvation over sins or your works that's troublesome. But whatever I'm not gonna determine who's saved or who isn't that's God's job. I just urge everyone to put their trust in Jesus alone, not their works for justification.
 
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Monk Brendan

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I hope everyone had a blessed Easter.
Jesus is risen, and isn't this Good News.

We might add to our prayer time a prayer for those who were injured in Sri Lanka, and of course for their families.
--------------------------------------

So, i wanted to ask you... Have any of you ever heard of OSAS?
This concept is an interesting outcome of salvation, and a prime result of Grace.
Its a "man made" idea, and similar to the word "Trinity", its not found in any Greek Text, or in any Translation of Scripture that make up any New Testament, extant.

Now, about "Grace".
I like this word "Grace", as this word describes the nature of God, and gives us an understanding of what the Love of God is like. His love is Grace.
I guess we could say that a combination of words like (charity, compassion, mercy, hope, goodness, forgiveness), and similar could barely try to help us understand God and His nature of Grace, because its Salvation that really spotlights, "Grace", as this is God giving the life of His Son, for the undeserving, and in this we see......Grace.......The Grace of God.

If we consider that Jesus is the heart of God, and when we have seen Jesus, we have seen the Father, then Grace also accurately describes ......Jesus.
Jesus, literally IS Grace.
This could be explained or demonstrated by the idea that God Himself, wrapped in human flesh, born of a virgin, was "manifested as a man, as a Savior, to take away the sin of the world"......and He did.
Jesus bore the sin of the world, but the application of this Grace, is not executed into/unto a person, unless they meet the one requirement that God requires for Him to give to you the "Righteousness of Christ:....and your FAITH, is the one "work" that God requires for you to receive the imputed Righteousness of HIMSELF.
No other work will He accept from you, to save you, and recreate you as "born again" for eternity.

The Blood Atonement is Grace.......and Salvation is a product of God's Grace.
The Cross, the blood of Jesus, the resurrection, these are all examples of Grace as a literal reality, regarding how the Love of God is expressed towards all of His creation, as perfect love and mercy and hope.

Another truth and perfect way to express Grace/Salvation, in the Christian context, would be......OSAS.

So, what is this, exactly? As there are many deceits written about it in books, and pamphlets, and on forums like this one, and many denominations are probably originally birthed as some type of resistance to the very idea of what they think it means.
What i can tell you, is that the KJV and the idea/subject of OSAS, get insulted more by Christians, then any of the cults you find, such as JW's, and Mormons, and others.
Yes, the KJV and OSAS, endure more mean spirited carnal ridicule, by people who say they are born again, then any true false religious cult, or all of them, combined.
And this is fascinating, as the reality is, most, maybe 90 % of the people who have such hatred in their heart for both the KJV and idea of OSAS, actually have a very skewed and misinformed understanding of both.........and its to this point, i'll write a brief bit of clarification, regarding only one......OSAS.

So what is it?......What is OSAS?......... well, simply put its God's Grace.
Thats what it is.
First, its an understanding that you are born again only once, and that you can't be "unborn again".
Just as you can't go back into your mother's womb, you also can't stop being 'in Christ".
You can't be "unborn" as a heavenly Son of God, just like you can't be unborn from the Mother who birthed you into this earthly existence.
Born is Born.....done is done........"It is finished", once it is applied to you..(Blood Atonement).
So, OSAS, is an understanding-comprehension of Salvation and of the Blood Atonement, that realizes that the mercy of God that saved you, is the same mercy that keeps you saved.
Its the SAME. = He who saved you, will keep you saved., and you have no part in this...none.
Its an understanding that the Law that once judged you as a sinner, has been abolished by the Cross, and thereby has no more power or authority to judge you ever again. This is why the scripture says that "Grace came by Jesus", and we are "Under Grace" now, and no longer under (being judged by) the Law.
Romans 4:8...study it.

And this means that God judged Himself on a Cross, as guilty for our sin, and this judgment will never fall again on a born again Son of God in Eternity/Heaven, as it already fell on Jesus The Christ, on earth.
If you, the reader, are not saved, if you are not born again, and you die, you will meet God as your Judge, and you can realize what happened to Jesus on a Cross, to honestly evaluate what you are up-against, for eternity, if you die as a Christ Rejector.
But if you are born again, then you will never meet God as Judge in heaven, as Christ has already met the Judge for you, on earth.
You will only meet your God as your Father, ......IF you are born again.

Then there is this part. A person who realizes that OSAS, is just giving God full credit for saving them and keeping them saved, also understands that they are to "be ye holy, as God is holy"...>"present your body a living sacrifice"..... everyday, every minute... without FAIL.
See...
OSAS, is not a "license to sin", as it is portrayed by liars and similar.....not at all.
OSAS, is simply the understanding of "born again"....which gives GOD and Christ full credit, for Salvation...for saving us and keeping us saved.
A person who understands that God saves once, and that "born again" happens once, and
"God is the author and finisher of our faith, and that the God who started Salvation in us, is faithful to complete it".....OSAS =believes this truth, and does not try to add their self effort (works) in place OF this truth.... that God alone saves you and keeps you saved.
Philippians 1:6
Hebrews 12:2

OSAS, defined....= simply gives God full credit for Salvation......the beginning of it, and the ending of it.
Thats it.
Simple.

And finally, a person who understands that Grace, is OSAS...(they are the same), that Salvation itself is explained perfectly by OSAS.....WE understand also a very important understanding.
And this is where the problem starts for legalists, as its this one misunderstanding, that if they could come to understand this one theological fact, and grasp it, they could come to see the Light, that Grace is actually OSAS.

Here is their issue.......... A Legalist, or someone who hates OSAS, does not understand that our Christian Discipleship, is something we do because we ARE saved, and never something we do to try to save ourselves or keep ourselves saved.
In other words....Salvation, is all of God, applied to us...and then, ONCE WE HAVE IT.... we try to live a lifestyle (Discipleship) that reflects what we have become, that is caused and kept ONLY by God and the Blood of Jesus.
The legalist, has the idea that God started salvation, and they finish it by their lifestyle, and if they get this wrong, or don't do enough, then, God will remove them from the Book of Life, and Jesus will find a way out of their body, and take the Holy Spirit with Him.
Which of course, is impossible, but that is what would have to happen, if you could "lose it".(lose your salvation). And so, OSAS, understands that this is not possible. Its not possible for Jesus to exit you once He is living IN YOU and you are "in Christ"..= "unborn again". However the legalist will insist that this can happen if you dont continue in a lifestyle that they feel QUALIFIES you to stay saved and inherit heaven by works, ONLY if you continue.....

So, one thing to add... and for you to consider.
Every work, you can do for God... commandment keeping, confessing sins, missionary work, joining a church, living a holy lifestyle.... Listen, all of these DEEDS, can be done, even if Jesus never hung as God on a Cross.
Now think about that...
In other words, all that a legalist is doing to "stay saved".. all of it, can be done by ANYONE, and Jesus never had to come down here as God and die, if any of this could save you.
So, a question for you legalist....= Would any of those works you are doing that you can do, before the Cross was given, or after.......If there was NO CROSS, would any of your works, works, works, save you?
NO !!
Then why would you believe that if none of those can save you, and only Jesus Saves, .. would you believe that what won't save you without the Blood Atonement, the CROSS......why would you think any of these works, if not done after you are SAVED, that this could cause you not to be saved?
This type Legalist mentality, is not only missing truth, its missing Logic.
So, a legalist believes that what can't save them...is able to take away their salvation, if they dont do the LIST of works, whatever that is, (till they die) as its a different list for each legalist.
> Wild.

So, the OSAS person, understands that all that legalism junk, is not something they will ever be found dead worrying about, because they understand that the God who saves us, keeps us saved, and that is OSAS.......thats what it means.
It means to give full credit to God and Christ for Salvation....Both saving us and keeping us saved, as this is GRACE, and GRACE is OSAS.

Philippians 1:6
Hebrews 12:2
There's a difference between being saved and a conversion experience.
 
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Kenny'sID

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Grace is the Holy Spirit, who empowers us to live and practice a lifestyle of love and righteousness.




JLB


I understand what you're saying, and though that's not the general definition, what you say does explain a lot of what really goes on in keeping us going.
 
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Kenny'sID

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Well said.


For me personally, I have found that I need His grace to do these things.




JLB

I definitely agree. Because someone was so kind to us when we did not deserve it, it makes it much easier to do as they ask of us, so that would be an integral part of it, but in the end, it's all up to us if we want to do that, or make up excuses why we need not do that as OSAS does.
 
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Romans 8

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I would suggest you see the definition of Grace, i6t is not defined as the Holy Spirit.

You made that up, that is unless you can show me where the bible states such?

I don't think he's too far off. Grace is essentially the power of God and the Holy Spirit somewhat works in a verb type of way in the Trinity.
 
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Romans 8

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As I said before, despite it being wrong, I don't think someone thinking they lose salvation over simply choosing to no longer believe is as big of an issue (although that would be wrong too). It's the idea that you can lose your salvation over sins or your works that's troublesome. But whatever I'm not gonna determine who's saved or who isn't that's God's job. I just urge everyone to put their trust in Jesus alone, not their works for justification.

I agree with you and the others in this thread whom are for OSAS. Like I said, I was on the wrong side of the fence up until a few days ago when I was reading through "Spiritual Man". After stumbling on this thread I'm definitely on the proper side now and so I thank yourself and everyone for putting in the time.
 
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Kenny'sID

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I don't think he's too far off. Grace is essentially the power of God and the Holy Spirit somewhat works in a verb type of way in the Trinity.

You're right, I changed my post once I understood what he was saying. :)
 
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Ttalkkugjil

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Mat 25:32 - “All the nations will be gathered before Him...

It says "all the nations". Nations throughout the bible refers to gentiles so it cannot possibly refer only to Israel. To say "all the nations" might well include Israel but it certainly doesn't mean Israel alone.

And it plainly states that some people will be rewarded for the things they have done, while others will be condemned for not doing those things.

Now, you claim that all of that only applies to some people at some future time and that it means something other than what it plainly states in the simplest of language.

You're not convincing me.

All the nations = people groups. This includes, of course, the people group that is infants. This is another witness to the power of infant baptism.
 
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JLB777

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Maybe someone can explain how a person who is in Christ, then later is no longer in Christ, still has eternal life, even though they are cast into the fire and burned.


If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6




JLB
 
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