OSAS and re-baptism

[Azeotroper]

I read this and other forums on a fairly regular basis and it has been my general observation that people who claim that the Bible teaches the necessity of baptism "for the remission of sins" (as opposed to a view that baptism is symbolic) also claim that one may lose his salvation under certain circumstances.  Generally, though not always, these people tend to hold to a "restoration movement" type of theology, such as is taught in the Churches of Christ. 

My question is........for those who believe that one who is truly saved can actually lose his salvation, does that person then need to be rebaptised to regain salvation since it is "for the remission of sins"?

If not, why not based on the Church of Christ usual interpretation of Acts 2:38?

 

[LouisBooth]

Good question.

 

[Azeotroper]

I was really hoping to get an answer to this one. Oh well....

 

[ZiSunka]

these people tend to hold to a "restoration movement" type of theology, such as is taught in the Churches of Christ.

If not, why not based on the Church of Christ usual interpretation of Acts 2:38?

I'm not familiar with restoration movement theology. How DO they interpret Acts 2:38

 

[eldermike]

I am OSAS myself so I can't help you but I am intrested in the answer myself.

 

[ZiSunka]

Yeah, so am I. I don't even think I understand the question very well.

Can you rephrase it Azeotroper? You might get more response!

 

[ZiSunka]

Also, I think you might be confusing "Churches of Christ" and "Church of Christ."

The former is a restoration movement organization, and the latter is an evangelical church with orthodox theology.

 

[Azeotroper]

The Church of Christ that are all over Texas, Oklahoma and much of the south is who I am generally talking about. The Barton Stone/Alexander Campbell crowd. They are not a denomination, but act very much alike.

In an effort to rephrase my question:

If one is a true believer and then he loses his salvation (as Church of Christ people usually believe can happen), does the person have to be re-baptised to regain salvation? I ask this because Church of Christ people always insist that one must be baptised for the remission of sins in order to be saved.

I hope this makes more sense.

 

[LouisBooth]

I'm still wondering with all the Non-OSAS people in this forum, none of them have addressed this.

 

[The Bible is Right]

Originally posted by Azeotroper
I read this and other forums on a fairly regular basis and it has been my general observation that people who claim that the Bible teaches the necessity of baptism "for the remission of sins" (as opposed to a view that baptism is symbolic) also claim that one may lose his salvation under certain circumstances.  Generally, though not always, these people tend to hold to a "restoration movement" type of theology, such as is taught in the Churches of Christ. 

My question is........for those who believe that one who is truly saved can actually lose his salvation, does that person then need to be rebaptised to regain salvation since it is "for the remission of sins"?

If not, why not based on the Church of Christ usual interpretation of Acts 2:38?

I'll answer you question, but first tell me what your definition of truly saved is? 

 

[The Bible is Right]

Originally posted by Azeotroper
The Church of Christ that are all over Texas, Oklahoma and much of the south is who I am generally talking about. The Barton Stone/Alexander Campbell crowd. They are not a denomination, but act very much alike.

In an effort to rephrase my question:

If one is a true believer and then he loses his salvation (as Church of Christ people usually believe can happen), does the person have to be re-baptised to regain salvation? I ask this because Church of Christ people always insist that one must be baptised for the remission of sins in order to be saved.

I hope this makes more sense.

I'm glad that you know a little about The Barton Stone/Alexander Campbell crowd as you call it, and that we are not a denonimation, but I don't think you understand what is taught about losing one's salvation.

 

[Azeotroper]

Bible,

I would say that somebody "truly saved" has heaven as their ultimate destination. Somebody "not truly saved" would be on their way to hell. Simple I guess.

You are probably correct that I don't understand what the Churches of Christ teach about losing one's salvation. I would think, though, that somebody who lost their salvation would no longer be heaven bound. (But I personally don't think Christ loses those that He saves. And before you say it, I don't think the Bible teaches that either.)

 

[Azeotroper]

double post

 

[Azeotroper]

I don't mean to make this topic a grilling of the Church of Christ. Others who have similar beliefs feel free to jump right in.

 

[The Bible is Right]

Originally posted by Azeotroper
Bible,

I would say that somebody "truly saved" has heaven as their ultimate destination. Somebody "not truly saved" would be on their way to hell. Simple I guess.

You are probably correct that I don't understand what the Churches of Christ teach about losing one's salvation. I would think, though, that somebody who lost their salvation would no longer be heaven bound. (But I personally don't think Christ loses those that He saves. And before you say it, I don't think the Bible teaches that either.)

 I was asking to find out ("what the truly saved") done to become "truly saved"?

When we in the church of Christ say "lose one's salvation" we are saying that some one who has become a christian and lives as a christian for a while, then decide to go astray or just go's astray and dies in that state, that person has lost his/her salvation.  Heb.6:4-6.

But a person who go's astray and realizes that they are wrong by hearing from the word of the Lord or something happens to them and they come back to the Lord because of it, they must repent of their sins and remain faithful from that time on.  They do not have to be baptized again, they must repent and live faithful!  James 5:20

 

[Azeotroper]

 

In regards to what must one do to be truly saved.....nothing, as Jesus has done it all for us.  I guess the problem is in my saying "truly" saved.  I suppose only the person in question and God can know for sure.  But it seems to me that those who take the Church of Christ position can never be sure of their salvation, because they might die with an unconfessed and unforgiven sin.  If I correctly represent the CoC position, that is sad in my opinion, as joy and peace would seem to be hard to come by.

I know we won't come to an agreement on this, but it seems to me that your salvation is works based, and you might possibly believe that my salvation is too cheap.

 

[g_1933]

The Bible teaches that we are saved by the Grace of God through faith in Jesus Christ. If I could lose my salvation then I do not truely belong to Christ. Jesus said "I will never leave thee nor forsake thee" and I will take Him at His word. I don't think that we will really know the extent of Christs suffering on the cross for our sins until we get to heaven. But then we will know what a high price was paid for us. Our salvation was definately not cheap, not to God.

 

[The Bible is Right]

Originally posted by g_1933
The Bible teaches that we are saved by the Grace of God through faith in Jesus Christ. If I could lose my salvation then I do not truely belong to Christ. Jesus said "I will never leave thee nor forsake thee" and I will take Him at His word. I don't think that we will really know the extent of Christs suffering on the cross for our sins until we get to heaven. But then we will know what a high price was paid for us. Our salvation was definately not cheap, not to God.

In your above statement you said that you will "take him at his word" is this the only place where you would "take him at his word"?

How about Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be condemned.
Will you "take him at his word" in this statement?

 

[g_1933]

How about Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be condemned.
Will you "take him at his word" in this statement?

Of course I take Him at His word in that statement! Notice that those that do not believe are the ones that will be condemned, not someone who is not baptised. There are no works that I can do to earn salvation. If I had to be baptised then I could say that I was saved by Jesus and by baptism!

John 14:6 I am the way, the truth, and the life, no man cometh unto the Father but by me.

John 11:25 I am the resurrection and the life, he that believeth on me, though he were dead, yet shall he live.

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other, for there is none other name under heaven, given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Mark 16:16 speaks of the baptism of the Holy Spirit which is gained upon trusting in Christ.

John 1:33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.

 

[The Bible is Right]

Originally posted by g_1933
Of course I take Him at His word in that statement! Notice that those that do not believe are the ones that will be condemned, not someone who is not baptised. There are no works that I can do to earn salvation. If I had to be baptised then I could say that I was saved by Jesus and by baptism!

John 14:6 I am the way, the truth, and the life, no man cometh unto the Father but by me.

John 11:25 I am the resurrection and the life, he that believeth on me, though he were dead, yet shall he live.

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other, for there is none other name under heaven, given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Mark 16:16 speaks of the baptism of the Holy Spirit which is gained upon trusting in Christ.

John 1:33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.

At first you said you "take him at HIS WORD" but then you changed what HE said in Mark 16:16. Why?