Osama's Game

[Loukuss]

Making a nuke isn't as easy as stealing a scientist, it takes quite a few very advanced, very precise, very heavy, and very expensive machine tools.

A few article that would disagree with your argument. I dont like USAtoday, so if you dont either, I can find others that say the same thing.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/2003-02-27-make-a-nuke.htm
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2003-02-26-nuke-threat-cover_x.htm

You completely missed the point. North Korea is a very close society, and Kim is pretty paranoid about outsiders.

So you know Kim as well as Putin? You are a man of extraordinary relationships. Can you tell me HOW you know he's a very paranoid man, besides using the MSM?

Why is he going to let Osama Bin Laden just waltz into the nation and buy a bomb?

They both want the same thing. They both would like to see America nuked. Do you think it really matters to Kim if Osama helps get the job done? I dont think so.

What contacts does Osama have that could get him in touch with Kim?

I'm sure he has more than a few contacts. Osama can probably buy a few contacts, if he wants to, with all the money he has. I'm not going to say that he has contacts in NK, because I dont know. But neither do you.

When has North Korea ever associated itself with Islamic terror?

Strawman. Just because they never have, does not mean they never will.

I already cleared this up. The article doesn't say that they don't believe Al-Qaeda exists, because it mentions the existance of the group Al-Qaida many times.

Considering that we've been talking about Al-Qaeda quite a bit now, I think common sense would indicate to you that I believe in it.

Well, you're using material from writers who believe that Al Qaeda doesnt in fact exist, yet you do. Do you not see the painful irony in that? You are using someone else's work to prove your point, yet your conclusions are so far apart. Seems a bit strange to me, but thats just me..

This argument is the most absurd I've seen thus far. The Army, and National Guard are the services that are tied down in Iraq. The Coast Guard and the Department of Homeland Security aren't touched by the military's deployments in Iraq, and are seperate agencies.

I love it when someone calls my argument 'absurd', and then comes back with an argument that defines absurd.
How can you honestly argue that the DHS and the CG arent affected by the war in Iraq? Do you know how much money is being pumped into the war in the ME? Do you not understand that that money doesnt come out of thin air?? DHS and CG have most definetly lost funding because of the war abroad. This is considered 'untouched' by you? Great argument!

Handling security in (way more than) 22 ports isn't touched by the fact we have to wage a war in Iraq.

Whatever gets you to sleep at night, buddy.

 

[LogicChristian]

A few article that would disagree with your argument. I dont like USAtoday, so if you dont either, I can find others that say the same thing.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/2003-02-27-make-a-nuke.htm
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2003-02-26-nuke-threat-cover_x.htm

Yeah, I know what newspapers say, and I also know that newspapers tend to inflate threats and make people afraid to *gasp* sell more newspapers.

So you know Kim as well as Putin? You are a man of extraordinary relationships. Can you tell me HOW you know he's a very paranoid man, besides using the MSM?

Let's see, he doesn't allow foreign media inside his nation for the most part, North Korea is a police state, Kim decided to pump much if not most of the nations GDP into the military even during a famine, etc etc etc.

They both want the same thing. They both would like to see America nuked. Do you think it really matters to Kim if Osama helps get the job done? I dont think so.

Is that the sound of doublespeak? I think so. Weren't you just chastising me for claiming to know the intent of Putin or Kim, and now you're claiming to know both Kim and Osama Bin Laden?

If Kim wanted America nuked, how come he hasn't already done it? There's plenty of US bases he could hit, and he could probably also get a bomb into Anchorage or Jeaneau.

I'm sure he has more than a few contacts. Osama can probably buy a few contacts, if he wants to, with all the money he has. I'm not going to say that he has contacts in NK, because I dont know. But neither do you.

If he can buy so many contacts, why has he failed multiple times to buy a nuclear weapon when he has tried?

How would he have contacts in North Korea? That's all I want to know. It's not like Osama or one of his agents can just walk into North Korea or one of its embassies abroad, and its not like you see large North Korean populations in the streets of any nation Al-Qaeda has a presence in.

Strawman. Just because they never have, does not mean they never will.

What?! I asked a question, I didn't even make an argument and you're saying I used a strawman.

I think you need to take a couple of deep breaths and chill out dude. Here, maybe a hug will help.

Well, you're using material from writers who believe that Al Qaeda doesnt in fact exist, yet you do. Do you not see the painful irony in that? You are using someone else's work to prove your point, yet your conclusions are so far apart. Seems a bit strange to me, but thats just me..

Where does the article I posted say or imply Al-Qaeda doesn't exist?

If it doesn't say that anywhere, your argument is moot.

I love it when someone calls my argument 'absurd', and then comes back with an argument that defines absurd.
How can you honestly argue that the DHS and the CG arent affected by the war in Iraq? Do you know how much money is being pumped into the war in the ME? Do you not understand that that money doesnt come out of thin air?? DHS and CG have most definetly lost funding because of the war abroad. This is considered 'untouched' by you? Great argument!

Actually, it was a great argument, because DHS funding has been increased each year since the agency was founded. BTW, all that wartime spending goes into the deficit, as a percentage of GDP, the US is still lower than most of Western Europe and Japan.

DHS was budgeted $19.5 billion in 2002, $37.7 billion in 2003, and $37.6 billion in 2004, $47.4 billion in 2005, and $49.9 billion for 2006.

In other words, reality doesn't match up to the fantasy quoted above. Sorry about that Lucas. Here's another hug.

 

[AnotherAlias]

strawman
n 1: a person used as a cover for some questionable activity [syn: front man, front, figurehead, nominal head, straw man] 2: a weak or sham argument set up to be easily refuted [syn: straw man] 3: an effigy in the shape of a man to frighten birds away from seeds [syn: scarecrow, straw man, bird-scarer, scarer]

LC asked a reasonable question that can be answered: Never, because Kim has never had any dealings with Osama. He isn't using a strawman. Just my .02 cents


I'm not sold on the idea that Kim would put himself into position to be indirectly responsible for the murder of millions of Americans, by "selling nukes" to al Qaida. He doesn't come across as a "madman." He would lose too much standing in the International community, I feel.

 

[JPPT1974]

IMO, I would put North Korea's Kim
In the list of evil leaders like Huessan, Hitler, Stalin, Mussoloni, etc!
Countries like that are runned by mad men!

 

[kathaksung]

It may happen like what the author said. Only the mastermind is the intelligence of US and Israel. They may detonate a dirty bomb for another Mid-East war. Just like what they have done with 911.

Experts Claim Official 9/11 Story is a Hoax
Mon Jan 30, 11:37 AM ET
(PRWEB) - Duluth, MN (PRWEB) January 30, 2006 --

Here are some of the kinds of considerations that these experts and scholar find profoundly troubling:

* In the history of structural engineering, steel-frame high-rise buildings have never been brought down due to fires either before or since 9/11, so how can fires have brought down three in one day? How is this possible?

* The BBC has reported that at least five of the nineteen alleged "hijackers" have turned up alive and well living in Saudi Arabia, yet according to the FBI, they were among those killed in the attacks. How is this possible?

* Frank DeMartini, a project manager for the WTC, said the buildings were designed with load redistribution capabilities to withstand the impact of airliners, whose effects would be like "puncturing mosquito netting with a pencil." Yet they completely collapsed. How is this possible?

* Since the melting point of steel is about 2,700*F, the temperature of jet fuel fires does not exceed 1,800*F under optimal conditions, and UL certified the steel used to 2,000*F for six hours, the buildings cannot have collapsed due to heat from the fires. How is this possible?

* Flight 77, which allegedly hit the building, left the radar screen in the vicinity of the Ohio/Kentucky border, only to "reappear" in very close proximity to the Pentagon shortly before impact. How is this possible?

* Foreign "terrorists" who were clever enough to coordinate hijacking four commercial airliners seemingly did not know that the least damage to the Pentagon would be done by hitting its west wing. How is this possible?

* Secretary of Transportation Norman Mineta, in an underground bunker at the White House, watched Vice President Cheney castigate a young officer for asking, as the plane drew closer and closer to the Pentagon, "Do the orders still stand?" The order cannot have been to shoot it down, but must have been the opposite. How is this possible?


* A former Inspector General for the Air Force has observed that Flight 93, which allegedly crashed in Pennsylvania, should have left debris scattered over an area less than the size of a city block; but it is scattered over an area of about eight square miles. How is this possible?

* A tape recording of interviews with air traffic controllers on duty on 9/11 was deliberately crushed, cut into very small pieces, and distributed in assorted places to insure its total destruction. How is this possible?

* The Pentagon conducted a training exercise called "MASCAL" simulating the crash of a Boeing 757 into the building on 24 October 2000, and yet Condoleezza Rice, among others, has repeatedly asserted that "no one ever imagined" a domestic airplane could be used as a weapon. How is this possible?

Their own physics research has established that only controlled demolitions are consistent with the near-gravity speed of fall and virtually symmetrical collapse of all three of the WTC buildings. While turning concrete into very fine dust, they fell straight-down into their own footprints.
These experts and scholars have found themselves obliged to conclude that the 9/11 atrocity represents an instance of the approach--which has been identified by Karl Rove, the President's closest adviser--of "creating our own reality."

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UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA
James Fetzer
http://news.yahoo.com/s/prweb/20060130/bs_prweb/prweb339303_5