orthodox understanding of forgiveness

[Maxelcat]

Hi All

I have been a 'protestant' of various colours most of my life. I have been taught over the years that somehow my sin creates a gap between me and God. Somehow, when I sin i owe him and that Jesus paid off my debt. This gives us a nice little formula to work with but I have to say that I am at the point where most of that soteriology doesn't make sense.

I am trying to learn more about orthodoxy. This morning I read in Acts 2 where Peter is preaching to the crowds and he says 'Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins'

What I have understood from my brief readings of the Fathers/Podcasts etc is that unification/theosis/healing are deeply ingrained into Orthodoxy. They do however talk about forgiveness of sins, but as I understand the debt motiff is not accepted by Orthodox Christians (though I might be wrong).

So how do the orthodox understand this idea of 'forgiveness of your sins'?

Thanks

M

 

[“Paisios”]

Hi Maxelcat,

I’m not Orthodox, and wouldn’t feel competent to answer your question, but I too have recently been exploring Eastern Orthodoxy, and have found that the people in The Ancient Way, especially St. Basil the Great’s Hall subforum have been extremely helpful, friendly and courteous in answering my questions. You might post this there, as well.

St. Basil the Great's Hall

If you haven’t read it, I found Bishop Kallistos Ware’s books, The Orthodox Way and The Orthodox Church to both be of value as an introduction to Eastern Orthodoxy for a westerner.

 

[Petros2015]

I'd definitely recommend St. Basil's as suggested, and The Orthodox Way is an excellent (and relatively short) book. It is richly spiritual and I highly recommend it. Have a pen handy to underline the parts that speak to you.

In a nutshell, salvation and transformation is an ongoing process initiated and made possible through Christ. One must be born again of Spirit, and that's not something I can do for myself. In and of my own, I don't get anywhere without his Spirit. We often speak of the remission of sins. We often speak of repentance (literally translates to 'a change of mind') and practice the sacrament of Confession as an outward expression to God and ourselves and another human being that we are serious about it. The Church's role is something like a hospital for sinners. We wound ourselves when we sin. We wound ourselves further when we kid ourselves about how wounded we are and hide it. In AA terms, "you are only as sick as your secrets". But when you acknowledge them and repent of them, you can move forward. The Church provides aid to do that through the sacraments - baptism, chrismation, confession, communion and others. These are the formal implementations of what is commanded and commended in the Scripture. So there is less of a legal debt motif (extreme Western) and more of a hospital motif (extreme Eastern). Sin itself translates to 'missing the mark' that one should be shooting for. Thanks to Christ, I know the target and the bullseye. I am not shooting for another target or into the crowd or at the referee. If I am or finding myself wanting to, I need to repent. Thanks to Christ, I know I am forgiven for what I have done.

1 John 1:7-9

What I don't confess, I don't repent of. What I don't repent of, I stay in. What am I staying in? Darkness and sin. It's pretty simple. I can get better through Christ, or I can get worse.

John 3:19-21

So we try to keep ourselves journeying deeper and deeper into the Light of Christ.

It's less about the actions that are done and more about the Spirit of the actor. Who is acting in me? Christ? Or the flesh? What is growing in me, the Holy Spirit or the Flesh?

Luke 11:11-13

Actions are just the symptom and outward expression of what is within. The flesh will be with me my whole life. The crucifixion of it must be ongoing. I don't think it's by coincidence that the first man Adam was placed in a garden. What do gardeners do?

They weed.

Mark 8:34

John 14:6

Christ made the Way and said to follow.

So, whatever you do, follow.

 

[Petros2015]

Collection of quotes and excerpts from The Orthodox Way you might also find helpful

The Orthodox Way Quotes by Kallistos Ware

 

[Albion]

Hi All

I have been a 'protestant' of various colours most of my life. I have been taught over the years that somehow my sin creates a gap between me and God. Somehow, when I sin i owe him and that Jesus paid off my debt. This gives us a nice little formula to work with but I have to say that I am at the point where most of that soteriology doesn't make sense.

I am trying to learn more about orthodoxy.

Have you attended, worshipped in, an Orthodox church a few times, or is your investigation still at the "reading about" stage? If it's the latter, it might be a good idea to experience Orthodoxy since it cannot really be understood from a distance, even while you are still dealing with such doctrinal matters as you've referred to here. Some other churches can be, but not Orthodoxy.

 

[Maxelcat]

Thanks to all for the replies. I studied some o Gregory of Nyssa's writings for a dissertation for an MA recently and they just blew me away. I will get that book you have recommended and check the forum.

As to visiting an Orthodox church I keep putting it off ..... I am pretty sure that it will break me!!!

 

[Maxelcat]

sorry