Orlando & the West....and my sin.

Orthodoxjay1

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Is it ironic that while I was watching coverage of the Orlando situation, I had 2 AK's on the floor and a .45 and was stripping and cleaning them? Is there some kind of gun penance? :sleep::sorry:

Repent, and you must do good works.. By turning all your guns over to me :D
 
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dzheremi

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I am still trying to figure out how an Afghani-American whose father has apparently made videos praising the Taliban would've been exposed to Fundamentalist Evangelical Christianity to the degree that this form of Christianity and not some form of Islam would be ultimately responsible for inspiring his actions. I don't think anyone can say that the "Christian Right" (to the extent that this is even a cohesive group; I wouldn't know) is gay-positive or whatever, but come on...it wasn't Orrin Hatch or Trent Lott in the nightclub shooting gay people. Could it have been? I guess so (I mean, not them specifically, but someone of that religious and political persuasion), but it wasn't. Some people are so committed to being 'open minded' towards anything and everything that is not Christianity that their brains are falling out at times like this. Do all Muslims everywhere have to atone for something they didn't do? No, of course not. But it would be silly to think that, given the immediate environment in which he was raised (in the Afghan diaspora, where Christianity of any kind is still a definite no-no), in order to avoid "blaming all Muslims" or whatever the right thing to do is therefore to blame a different religious group that is transparently not connected to this tragedy. That doesn't follow.

And I get what the guy is trying to say: "These people advocate for laws that treat gays like subhumans/would do this as well if they could" or some such (believe me; living in California as I do, I have been unfollowing 'friends' on Facebook all day who have been making this same non-point over and over again...and yet for some reason many of them seem to think it is a 'bold' stance, and preface their hack garbage by writing things like "I know I'll lose so-called friends over this, but if you don't agree, then you were never my friend anyway"; sounds like a great reason to stop having to interact with you...please, do go on...), which is probably true of some specific examples that people keep bringing up (Fred Phelps and the like), but then if these same people were honest they would treat Christianity as they do Islam and not use the worst specific examples they can come up with in order to demonize the entire religion, as though everyone marches in lock-step, waiting for our cue to start beating up or killing homosexuals or whatever...particularly when it's not even the religion of the person doing the thing they object to, as in this case.

Whether it's politically expedient or not to recognize it, there are simply not hordes of Afghan Evangelicals out there telling people to shoot up a gay nightclub because Jesus says so. Maybe Islam is to blame for this in some way (I don't particularly need convincing that Islam sucks, even if this event had never happened, but I guess when Islamists blow up dozens of Christians in Pakistan or behead dozens in Libya, then those people all deserve it, because they're Christians and Christians are the worst people, and responsible for every bad thing that happens everywhere; I guess Islam looooves gay people, right? Hahaha...أي المنطق؟)

I went to this guy's Twitter and, true to form, it's full of a bunch of calls to "stop exploiting LGBT issues to spread Islamophobia" (um...isn't the problem that this particular guy who was Muslim clearly had 'issues' with the LGBT community, not that people are recognizing that?) and links to some pastor captured on Youtube praising the Orlando shootings, and links to opinion polls that say 42% of American Muslims support gay marriage compared to 38% of Evangelicals...as though those statistics saved anyone's life in Orlando, or as though the bottom feeders in the most hateful corners of YouTube are Christianity in toto, but this guy in Orlando can't ever be connected to Islam -- despite the connection that he himself made -- because that would be "exploiting LGBT issues to spread Islamophobia", and darn it, that's wrong. That's the wrongest thing about this whole situation. Grr.

I wonder if Chris Strangio, the lawyer in question, can understand Arabic. I'm willing to bet that if he can he wouldn't like the things he would find when searching YouTube in that language for discussions on homosexuality/what the Islamic religion commands be done to homosexuals, nor the means of carrying out Islamic justice (it's not by trying to pass two or two hundred bills against the societal acceptance of homosexuality, that's for sure). But my goodness, that would almost put things in perspective, and we really can't have that. We've got to make sure the right people are blamed, reality be damned.
 
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Cappadocious

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Two terrible blights, blotches, stains on the Earth are homosexuals and Islam. This week we got two sinful entities entering each other's space. Watching all these men cuddling after the massacre made me want to vomit in my mouth a bit. They kept switching the camera from the Muslim nutjob's selfies to these effeminate guys hugging and holding each other stroking one another's hair. Truly tough to watch between the death, the Muslim, and the rainbow scenes.
No luck on Grindr lately?
 
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while I think cappacodious' response is a little over the top, I do think there's nothing wrong with men showing physical affection for each other. Now of course, I'm not talking about sexual affection, but, to say seeing men show physical affection made one to vomit a little is over the top too.

I think this whole aversion to men showing any kind of physical affection for each other and assuming that any and all of it is sexual is not healthy and contributes to the confusion and tension we have regarding this issue.

And... here comes the reaction to what I just said, lol!
 
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Orthodoxjay1

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while I think cappacodious' response is a little over the top, I do think there's nothing wrong with men showing physical affection for each other. Now of course, I'm not talking about sexual affection, but, to say seeing men show physical affection made one to vomit a little is over the top too.

I think this whole aversion to men showing any kind of physical affection for each other and assuming that any and all of it is sexual is not healthy and contributes to the confusion and tension we have regarding this issue.

And... here comes the reaction to what I just said, lol!

While I see your point, showing some emotion is OK, especially after a lot of loved ones have died. However I see where Gurney is coming from, there are too many men, who are not men that are wearing skinny jeans, overly emotional, effeminate, cowardly, limp wristed guys these days. It really like the homosexualization of the male, it was a really pitiful site on TV, watching these "guys" waving rainbow flags crying, and all touching each other, not like a fist bump, more like cuddling, total perversion on the news.
 
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Well, in certain contexts yes I understand and agree. There's certainly a masculine way of showing affection. I think it can extend beyond just fist bumping and can take place outside of intense emotional events.

Not all gay guys are effeminate. I've personally been hit on by guys I thought were not "gay". It was a mix bag of feeling repulsed yet flattered all at the same time, all the while thinking to myself, "why wasn't that a woman hitting on me?!" lol.

I think our society's general repulsion towards any physical affection between guys is extreme and does lead to confusion in many guy's minds. I think we could ease up on that a little.
 
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BadHabit

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Is it ironic that while I was watching coverage of the Orlando situation, I had 2 AK's on the floor and a .45 and was stripping and cleaning them? Is there some kind of gun penance? :sleep::sorry:

No, just good maintenance schedule. I clean my arsenal regularly, whether they've been fired or not.

Long live the fighters!
 
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Good to hear there's another gun guy in here! You sound as fastidious as me about keeping that Arsenal clean, 'you young pup!!'

Gotta keep your Gom Jabbar clean, too!

No, just good maintenance schedule. I clean my arsenal regularly, whether they've been fired or not.

Long live the fighters!
 
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I'm not playing the macho card. I'll hug and kiss my dad, hug my guy friends halfway, and in many ways I'm a softie. But watching these guys in tight-fitting, fruity shirts with their lips pursed and heads cocked talking like girls and caressing each other holding each other, sorry, Greg, it's just gross. I'm sick of this feminizing rainbow society of wimps, crybabies, and how everyone is a victim and thinks they're bullied. Society as a whole is rotten and weak....

I don't see anything wrong with being tired of hearing men talk like Richard Simmons. I liked things better when these folks listened to "Its Raining Men" and the Village People in the closet with headphones.

while I think cappacodious' response is a little over the top, I do think there's nothing wrong with men showing physical affection for each other. Now of course, I'm not talking about sexual affection, but, to say seeing men show physical affection made one to vomit a little is over the top too.

I think this whole aversion to men showing any kind of physical affection for each other and assuming that any and all of it is sexual is not healthy and contributes to the confusion and tension we have regarding this issue.

And... here comes the reaction to what I just said, lol!
 
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farout

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I am profoundly troubled this morning as I read the various social media reports and messages regarding the mass murder in Orlando. I have read many posts which call for us as Christians to pray for, love, and help those who have been victims of the shooting.

I am appalled that when I first heard of the shootings, I felt nothing. I am deeply troubled that I have such a cold and indifferent heart to human suffering, and am so unlike our Lord in having love for all sinners.

What does the West have to do with this? Precisely this:

I attended Southern Fried Fundamentalist churches for 13 years. I had just come out of a life of tremendous evil myself, yet through the preaching in these churches, I was made to feel that somehow I am now "better than those terrible sinners" who have not come to Christ. There is a kind of triumphalist preaching in Fundamentalism (you know - we are right and God loves us because we are right, and everyone else is going to the hell they deserve). This sort of preaching breeds contempt for others, not Christian charity.

And it finds a particularly warm and inviting home in the hearts and minds of people who are already quite broken and who latch onto this sort of preaching as a way of feeling better about themselves. The ultimate expression of this is, of course, the Westboror Baptist bunch.

Then I went to PCA Calvinism for the next 12 years. Again, that Western mindset crops up: we are "the elect," and all others who are not elect are God's enemies. And you can tell who are God's enemies by how much they love sin and how depraved their sins are.

Finally, the preaching of God's wrath against sinners (think Jonathan Edwards) in both of these denominations made it quite clear to me that I was right to hate and despise these sinners. After all, our pastor hated them, called them "sodomites" and spoke, sometimes with great relish, of their eternal torment in a deserved lake of fire forever.

Do you see what I have lacked for 25 years - anything to do with the love of God. Any idea that God loves every single human being, that God is love, and love is how we are to treat all men and women, was either not preached, tepidly mentioned, or sometimes made fun of. I remember sermons in which God was presented as the angry, vengeful God who hates sinners.

God hates? I thought the Bible says that God is love.

Anyway, because of deep psychological scarring in my own soul, this putrid way of thinking has taken deep root in my soul. I am stunned at how heartless I am, yet professing to be a follower of the One who is love incarnate.

Not much I can do except pray, ask for the Holy Spirit, and continue to repent of such thinking. But this poison runs deep, and I again blame the Western theological approach - the vengeful God who hates sinners and tosses them into hell with glee - as bringing me to such a terrible place in my life.


We often fail to see the souls of those deep in a very sinful flash it in your face type of people. I wonder if we did not know it was a gay bar how different we would feel. I too found my self asking myself why I was not as deeply hurt for the families left behind. The Lord convicted me and I feel much different now.
 
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You and I must be living in two different societies!?! Every time I turn on the news, all the men are effeminate or gay, bi, or metrosexual wimps being interviewed. Anderson Cooper is gay. Don Lemon is gay. Rachel Maddow is gay. TV shows have loads of wimpy characters who are fruity-acting. I live in the most conservative town in CA yet our mayor was lesbian. Everywhere I go now I see this stuff. We have gay and trans kids at our elementary school, lesbian mothers who look like they belong to the Sons of Anarchy.

Most of the men that work at Target here in town sound like they have lisps while they wear skinny jeans and faux Hawks. You see them hug other men and say things like "thanks girlfriend" to each other. My wife was commenting to me lately how so many men working at these restaurants sound super gay. There are gays at my gym here in the red state part of CA.

The dads at my school baby their boys now coddling them so much they're like little Elton Johns!

We live in a "participation award" wimpy society. I can't fathom how you think there's too much manliness!?! It's as if a giant satellite came to Earth sucking the testosterone straight out of the men...

.
I think our society's general repulsion towards any physical affection between guys is extreme and does lead to confusion in many guy's minds. I think we could ease up on that a little.
 
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grandvizier1006

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You and I must be living in two different societies!?! Every time I turn on the news, all the men are effeminate or gay, bi, or metrosexual wimps being interviewed. Anderson Cooper is gay. Don Lemon is gay. Rachel Maddow is gay. TV shows have loads of wimpy characters who are fruity-acting. I live in the most conservative town in CA yet our mayor was lesbian. Everywhere I go now I see this stuff. We have gay and trans kids at our elementary school, lesbian mothers who look like they belong to the Sons of Anarchy.

Most of the men that work at Target here in town sound like they have lisps while they wear skinny jeans and faux Hawks. You see them hug other men and say things like "thanks girlfriend" to each other. My wife was commenting to me lately how so many men working at these restaurants sound super gay. There are gays at my gym here in the red state part of CA.

The dads at my school baby their boys now coddling them so much they're like little Elton Johns!

We live in a "participation award" wimpy society. I can't fathom how you think there's too much manliness!?! It's as if a giant satellite came to Earth sucking the testosterone straight out of the men...
California is kind of known for its "fruits and nuts", isn't it? Come to Mississippi--we probably have some gays but they don't act like yours.
 
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Jesus4Madrid

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You and I must be living in two different societies!?! Every time I turn on the news, all the men are effeminate or gay, bi, or metrosexual wimps being interviewed. Anderson Cooper is gay. Don Lemon is gay. Rachel Maddow is gay. TV shows have loads of wimpy characters who are fruity-acting. I live in the most conservative town in CA yet our mayor was lesbian. Everywhere I go now I see this stuff. We have gay and trans kids at our elementary school, lesbian mothers who look like they belong to the Sons of Anarchy.

Most of the men that work at Target here in town sound like they have lisps while they wear skinny jeans and faux Hawks. You see them hug other men and say things like "thanks girlfriend" to each other. My wife was commenting to me lately how so many men working at these restaurants sound super gay. There are gays at my gym here in the red state part of CA.

The dads at my school baby their boys now coddling them so much they're like little Elton Johns!

We live in a "participation award" wimpy society. I can't fathom how you think there's too much manliness!?! It's as if a giant satellite came to Earth sucking the testosterone straight out of the men...
I hear you.

I often find it hard with homosexuals to "love the sinner, hate the sin", which we as Christians must do. We are constantly drawn to one extreme or the other. I hate the gay pickup culture (as I know many gays do). Yet I also find it difficult to stand up to the cultural inundation we all experience that tells us that homosexuality is normal and worthy of celebration.

We Orthodox should pray for an extra measure of grace to love these people now, in their weakness, yet also the grace to proclaim boldly that homosexuality is a disease, like any other sin, for which we know the antidote.
 
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grandvizier1006

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Isn't it a coffee shop?
It's some kind of gay dating website. There is also Tindr, which I believe is the heterosexual version. From what I gather it's more about hooking up than dates, but I don't use any of this stuff so I don't know for sure.
 
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So in other words Cappadocious is suggesting I'm a homosexual?

It's some kind of gay dating website. There is also Tindr, which I believe is the heterosexual version. From what I gather it's more about hooking up than dates, but I don't use any of this stuff so I don't know for sure.
 
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