Original sin.

[S.O.J.I.A.]

Adam and Christ were alike in that both entered the world without sin as ALL men do. The difference is Adam succumbed to temptation and sinned while Christ did not. Sinning therefore is a matter of choice and not how one was passively born with sin or sin nature. Yet if man is born with original sin and a sin nature and Christ was not, then Christ was not "made like unto His brethren", not "made in the likeness of men" and was not tempted in all points as man is. The bible would not be speaking truth is saying Christ, in all respects, was human with all human attributes. So either Christ was born a sinner and a sin nature or His humanity must be denied.

the simple answer to this would be that Christ was not born in adam but was conceived by the Spirit of God.

It is not possible for one to become a sinner at both places. If one becomes a sinner at conception then he cannot become a sinner at birth for he already is a sinner. So the contradiction continues. Furthermore Joh said sin is transgression of the law. What sin was committed at conception or birth to make one a sinner? Since there is not sin DNA or sin is not a substance as bacteria that is passed from one to another or sin is just not an idea that is passed one from another then a transgression must have occurred at conception or birth for sin to take place. Did the newly conceived/born lie? Steal? Murder?

As far as the NIV, I was pointing not the difference between being "born a sinner" per the NIV and "born in sin". The two are NOT the same. You used the term "born is sin" and that phrase does NOT necessitate one is born a sinner. Again, the world is full of sin and we were all born into that sinful environment but that does not make us born sinners.

Jesus was born human, born of a human woman and therefore was human is ALL respects and attributes. Therefore for the bible to be true that Christ was made in the likenesses of men, made in the likeness of His brethren then He must have been born with original sin and a sin nature if os/sin nature is true.

man's sin nature has little to do with bacteria or DNA and more to do with man's standing before God and his corrupt fallen nature.

it seems you would, in fact, hold to heretical position that the LORD's Holy nature would be in subjection to man's fallen nature in that Jesus being born of God would be overcome by the sin nature of mary.

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

If Romans 5:18a teaches universally that all men are unconditionally born sinners, then 18b teaches all men unconditionally will be made righteous and you are pushing the false idea of Universalism.

romans 5:18 would tell us that all those born in adam are born in sin.

Jesus was not born in adam.

 

[EmSw]

romans 5:18 would tell us that all those born in adam are born in sin.

Jesus was not born in adam.

If all men are condemned by Adam, then surely all men are justified by Jesus.

 

[Albion]

If all men are condemned by Adam, then surely all men are justified by Jesus.

That's not logical. It's what they call a non-sequitur because the conclusion does not follow predictably from the first statement. All that we can say about the descendants of Adam is that if they inherit a fallen nature, they need a Savior.

 

[EmSw]

That's not logical. It's what they call a non-sequitur because the conclusion does not follow predictably from the first statement. All that we can say about the descendants of Adam is that if they inherit a fallen nature, they need a Savior.

It's not logical for one to argue against logic. Perhaps all means 'all' in one part of Romans 5:18, and doesn't mean 'all' in another part. Is that your understanding?

 

[Albion]

It's not logical for one to argue against logic. Perhaps all means 'all' in one part of Romans 5:18, and doesn't mean 'all' in another part. Is that your understanding?

I see now. You've misunderstood Romans 5:18. That would explain it.

 

[EmSw]

I see now. You've misunderstood Romans 5:18. That would explain it.

Do you see? How is it I misunderstood Romans 5:18 and you didn't?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

We need salvation because we are sinners, and we choose sin. Yet it seems impossible for a person to choose to never sin-it seems like a paradox to me.. It seems our situation is different from Adam and the angelic race falling from grace. I think they had the potential to be sinless forever.

Just think most simply, like a little child coming to the truth/ Jesus/ the Father in heaven/ Creator of all ....

Instead of obeying the devil,

choose to obey God.

Tell God this.

Then do as He says.

 

[Albion]

Do you see? How is it I misunderstood Romans 5:18 and you didn't?

The more important point might be that we disagree on it, so there HAS to be a disagreement on someone's part, right? It can be misunderstood.

 

[EmSw]

The more important point might be that we disagree on it, so there HAS to be a disagreement on someone's part, right? It can be misunderstood.

I sure hope you aren't saying you are better than me, and that brings you understanding.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I sure hope you aren't saying you are better than me, and that brings you understanding.

What does Scripture say ?
Philippians 2:3 Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain ... - Bible Hub
biblehub.com/philippians/2-3.htm - Cached - Similar
Do not act out of selfish ambition or conceit, but with humility

.......................... think of others as being better than yourselves.

So you should be thinking of him as better than yourself, not him thinking he is better himself.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

If all men are condemned by Adam, then surely all men are justified by Jesus.

In Romans it is written who is justified - not at all who you expect.... (apparently)

 

[EmSw]

So you should be thinking of him as better than yourself, not him thinking he is better himself.

Do what?

 

[EmSw]

In Romans it is written who is justified - not at all who you expect.... (apparently)

Romans 5:18
So then as through one trespass unto all men to condemnation; even so through one act of righteousness unto all men to justification of life.

Where does it say that in this verse?

 

[Albion]

I sure hope you aren't saying you are better than me, and that brings you understanding.

I wasn't.

 

[hedrick]

If all men are condemned by Adam, then surely all men are justified by Jesus.

That's not logical. It's what they call a non-sequitur because the conclusion does not follow predictably from the first statement. All that we can say about the descendants of Adam is that if they inherit a fallen nature, they need a Savior.

I doubt he was claiming it follows logically. Rather, it's an analogy used by Paul. The passages imply more than that we need a savior. It says that we've got one, and that he saves all.

Perhaps you object to the original posting because it might imply univeralism. Paul's language often does. But that's probably not what he means. In 1 Cor 15:26 his enemies are put under his feet, with the last one, death, being destroyed. I think the implication is that all enemies are destroyed. Thus they aren't left to be part of the all that is redeemed.

 

[Albion]

Perhaps you object to the original posting because it might imply univeralism.

There you go.

 

[hedrick]

There you go.

If you think every "all" in Paul means universalism, you're going to have to ignore a lot of Paul.

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

If all men are condemned by Adam, then surely all men are justified by Jesus.

sure, if you choose to hold to univeralism.

 

[ICONO'CLAST]

No, the bible shows men are born sinless, innocent regardless of what men may say one way or the other.

Not even in the amplified bible,seriously.