• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.
  3. Please note there is a new rule regarding the posting of videos. It reads, "Post a summary of the videos you post . An exception can be made for music videos.". Unless you are simply sharing music, please post a summary, or the gist, of the video you wish to share.
  4. There have been some changes in the Life Stages section involving the following forums: Roaring 20s, Terrific Thirties, Fabulous Forties, and Golden Eagles. They are changed to Gen Z, Millennials, Gen X, and Golden Eagles will have a slight change.
  5. CF Staff, Angels and Ambassadors; ask that you join us in praying for the world in this difficult time, asking our Holy Father to stop the spread of the virus, and for healing of all affected.

Original holy sabbath

Discussion in 'Non-denominational' started by rwc109, Feb 18, 2002.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. rwc109

    rwc109 Active Member

    902
    +5
    Engaged
    It is indeed Biblically true that Jesus did not command anyone to keep sabbath directly,

    it is certainly more important to do good than to rest from labour on sabbath,

    the ordinance to be KEEPING sabbath put on [ONLY] Israel is certainly blotted out by right of Christ to bring in the new covenant,

    and nobody should judge anyone of anything, least of all keeping sabbath !

    .....all these things are true and recorded in the bible

    Also in the bible is the fact that [Gen 2:3] the sabbath was BLESSED and made a holy [SEPARATE to God's purpose, distinct, inviolate,unalterable] day of rest,

    whilst all other days of the week are for labour.

    The BLESSING was not BY ANY COVENANT, but is UNCONDITIONAL

    [thus it is for any man at all who keeps it by knowing when it is and resting from work to be receiving its blessing with God in the spirit - as Jesus said the sabbath was MADE FOR MAN]

    - Gen 2:3 is a long time BEFORE the old covenant and even Israel existed !!

    so sabbath itself is certainly not part of what was nailed to the cross at all -
    [what was nailed to the cross was the COMMANDMENT TO KEEP sabbath under pain of death [for Israel failing their agreement with God]
    - once Israel too come into the new covenant they will not have to keep sabbath, but also may do so to receive the blessing......
    So we CAN keep sabbath if we CHOOSE TO FREELY and receive its UNCONDITIONAL BLESSING, as can any man who knows when it is.

    Careful inspection of the bible also reveals that God assigned the sabbath as a PERPETUAL sign
    between Him and His people
    and this separately from the old covenant too!

    -the sign is still just as valid today and its being a sign never was part of the old covenant ,
    but sabbath actually remains a shadow of things to COME,

    i.e. it is not YET FULFILLED and so cannot pass away!
    sabbath points forward to the eventual rest of God
    {completion of redemption of creation}
    in the new heaven and earth,
    {as well as backward to creation completed}

    thus it certainly is not yet fulfilled and is indeed yet to come

    Traditional doctrines just aren't careful enough, we have to study ourselves with the spirit of truth to guide us and go beyond traditions of men.

    I believe this hidden blessing [manna] may indeed be critical in our survival against Satan as the antichrist in the dry times to come
    - since Satan cannot stop us partaking the spirit this way except by hiding when sabbath is
    [which he has done a very elaborate job of doing!

    .... that in itself should seem significant to you, I certainly find it so]

    Jesus showed us WHEN sabbath is by acknowledging the Jews keeping sabbath [one thing they managed to do was keep count to seven, as the Bible actually records that they did and Jesus confirms]

    Thus we KNOW it is a HEBREW day {NOT a Roman one like Saturday , Sunday ,etc]

    and that it thus starts at SUNSET in Jerusalem [on the 'day' many call Friday] ending at the next sunset Jerusalem

    We also know that God never defined a dateline or any timezones when He defined time and sabbath,

    so God's way of timekeeping has time the same for everyone everywhere,
    what we call absolute time,
    so EVERYONE WORLDWIDE has sabbath at the SAME time exactly

    [avoiding ALL the PARADOXES and inconsistences of mankind's very recent abominations, International timezone times]

    We can find what time our HOME CLOCKS will say at sunset Jerusalem by e,g. the website at US Naval Laboratory (Astronomical Applications Dept} ,

    we only need to know our timezone
    and the location of Jerusalem which is [31 47 North,35 10 East]
    and they give a list of the local time for us at sunset Jerusalem for a whole year.

    Then we have the opportunity to (freely) choose to keep the [original] Holy Blessed Sabbath , Sign of God,
    and be in the spirit in His celebration day of His eventual rest for all mankind,

    this will inevitably add to our accepting His peace through freedom from conflict within our own hearts,
    another sort of rest from the world caused by doing love and realising it is the only way of life

    .....so being prepared to keep asking for grace and mercy when we fail
    whilst we learn to do more lovingness in the world.

    EVERYONE WORLDWIDE is invited to freely join in the blessing by celebrating real sabbath AT THE SAME TIME with our God of love in defiance of Satan's many attempts to hide the blessing from us.
     
    We teamed up with Faith Counseling. Can they help you today?
  2. Wildfire

    Wildfire Member

    454
    +1
    Exodus 20:8 says,
    Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
    Six days shalt thou labour and do all thy work:
    But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God.

    Jesus speaks of the sabbath in Mark chapter 2 saying to the Pharisees;
    The sabbath was made for man, and not man made for the sabbath. Therefore the son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

    It IS important to keep the sabbath. It is on the seventh day of every week. Saturday. The first day of the week is Sunday. The catholic church changed the laws long ago, by proclaiming that Sunday would be a christian day of celebration since the sabbath was spent in lamentation; and unfortunately, many other faiths followed this belief, and the true sabbath day was forgotten.
     
  3. SenseiPiccolo

    SenseiPiccolo Well-Known Member

    +0
    well....
    since were not promised tomorrow--
    every day should be considered the Lords day (the sabbath)
    :)
     
  4. AngelAmidala

    AngelAmidala Legend

    +617
    Methodist
    Single
    Interesting way of looking at it!!
     
  5. charlesj

    charlesj Member

    78
    +0
    Sabbath Keepers. (Two Basic Types)

    A Sabbath keeper is one who worships on the 7th day of the week. We call this day Saturday. There are many “brands” of Sabbath-keepers.. Their names are legion.(There is a directory of Sabbath-keeping groups called “Sabbath-Observing Groups,” published by The Bible Sabbath Association, Fairview, Oklahoma 73737. I purchased my copy in 1974 and has 258 pages showing many groups, probably over 200 and by now it may be 250 or 300.) (I know it has one less group in Waco, David Karesh)

    A good majority of Sabbath-keepers have “grown up” in that environment, that is, their parents and their parents were Sabbath-keepers. They have known nothing else. Most consist of small groups.
    Today’s Sabbath-keeper may not only keep the Sabbath, but also the feast days. Some even teach that you must be circumcised.
    Although the Sabbath-keepers have many “brands,” they can be broken down into two groups:
    (1). Some worship on the “DAY” part of the Sabbath, that is, they only worship twelve hours.
    (2). The majority of Sabbath keepers worship for twenty-four hours, from sunset Friday to sunset Saturday sunset.
    These people take the Sabbath instructions from the Old Covenant that which was given to the Jews only, strip it of some of its penalties, and apply it to everyone, even the Gentiles who never had the Sabbath. Some go as far as making the Sabbath a “seal of God” to identify the “his children,” that is, Christians.

    In other words, some Old Testament Sabbath keepers tell us that if we(Christians) don’t keep the Sabbath then we will also take the “mark of the beast” because we are not “sealed” as God’s children.

    TWENTY-FOUR HOUR SABBATH KEEPER.

    The twenty-four hour Sabbath keeper uses some of the following scriptures to prove their position:
    Lev 23:32 It is a Sabbath of rest for you, and you must deny yourselves. From the evening of the ninth day of the month until the following evening you are to observe your Sabbath.”
    (Of course no one points out that this was a special Sabbath in Lev 23:32, it is the “day of atonement”.)

    The next scripture they point out, shows that there is a preparation day to the Sabbath, that is, Friday.
    Luke 23:54 It was Preparation Day, and the Sabbath was about to begin.


    Neh 13:19 When evening shadows fell on the gates of Jerusalem before the Sabbath, I ordered the doors to be shut and not opened until the Sabbath was over. I stationed some of my own men at the gates so that no load could be brought in on the Sabbath day.

    TWELVE HOUR SABBATH-KEEPER.

    The twelve hour Sabbath keeper looks out his window about six o’clock Saturday morning and watches the “Sabbath DAY” begin. He uses the following scriptures for his position:

    Ex 20:8 “Remember the Sabbath DAY by keeping it holy.
    Ex 20:9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work,
    Ex 20:10 but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your animals, nor the alien within your gates.

    1. The 12 hour Sabbath keeper points out Exodus 20:8, “remember the Sabbath DAY”
    2. In case his 24 hour Sabbath brother doesn’t understand
    what a “day” is, then he will explain to him from
    Genesis:

    THE “DAY” EXPLAINED: (from the 12 hour Sabbath-keeper)
    Gen 1:3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.
    Gen 1:4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the
    light from the darkness.
    Gen 1:5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning-- the first day.

    3. The ol’ 12 hour Sabbath keeper will show that darkness
    is called “night” and the light part is called “day.” (Gen. 1:5)
    a. light = day.
    b. darkness = night.
    c. The first day consisted of an evening and a
    morning, two light parts of a day. That is,
    an evening(light part) and a morning(light
    part).
    4. Then, he will point to Jesus who will define the period of
    a day:

    John 11:9 Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world. (KJV)

    Also, there is a parable of which a farmer goes out and hires laborers. On the first hour of the day, he hires a man. He hires men to work throughout the day. At the last hour, the eleventh hour, the end of the day, he hires a laborer. The others complain that the man hired on the 11th hour received the same wages as the one hired the first hour.

    Matt 20:9 And when they came that were hired about the eleventh hour, they received every man a penny. (KJV)
    The main point of this parable is not how long a day is, but you can see that a day is twelve hours long according to the story.

    Some other scriptures that split the day and night:
    Job 2:13 So they sat down with him upon the ground seven days and seven nights, and none spake a word unto him: for they saw that his grief was very great. (KJV)
    Jonah 1:17 Now the LORD had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah. And Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights.
    Matt 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. (KJV)
    John 20:19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you. (KJV)

    The 12 hour Sabbath-keeper points out John 20:19. Even though it was evening, it was still the “same day.” Therefore, they say, an evening to evening Sabbath couldn’t be correct.

    So, should we worship on the Sabbath day, twelve hours or twenty-four hours?
    Or, should we be observing the Sabbath at all? Or, do the ones worshipping on Sunday, the Lord’s day, the first day of the week, worship on the Sabbath too?
    The Greek phrase for the first day of the week is, “mia ton Sabbaton”
    (mention eight times in the New Testament) means “first of the Sabbaths.” (Or, as we know it, the “First day of the week”)

    So, now we have another question, should we worship on the 7th of the Sabbaths, and if so, should we worship only 12 hours or should we worship the full 24 hours from sunset Friday to sunset Saturday... or should we wait one day more and worship on the “first of the Sabbaths?”
    Where does all this end? Why does man come along and confuse everybody?

    Worship the Lord God through His Son Jesus. When a person has a "spiritual birth," and is born from above (born again), John 3:3,5, he or she enters into the church of firstborn, the city of God
    unto " mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel." -Heb 12:22ff
    You enter into a new world, a new city, made without hands.

    This is the city Abraham could see afar off (Heb 11:13ff).
    This city is made up of all the saints from Adam's time to the present and is growing. It is a city that can't be seen (Jn 3:3) or entered into(Jn 3:5) unless one is "born again."

    Praise God and may He bless you as you study and serve Him.

    Your servant in Messiah, Jesus, (or Yeshua)
    charlesj
     
  6. AngelAmidala

    AngelAmidala Legend

    +617
    Methodist
    Single
    Thanks for sharing all that!!
     
  7. Wildfire

    Wildfire Member

    454
    +1
    Hi Charles,
    The parable you are referring to has another meaning I believe. Matthew 20; is explaining the kingdom of heaven; in time, but over ones own lifetime. (of finding God) Because they all worked for different lengths of time, and yet still recieved the same amount, some were upset over this. And we are told that this is Gods will.
    There are many parables like this; Matthew 13 is an excellent chapter to identify with. Soup
     
  8. rwc109

    rwc109 Active Member

    902
    +5
    Engaged
    Beloved people,
    Sabbath was created by God , not by Roman law, God's days start at SUNSET [and are thus mostly not even 24 hours long], so that the Hebrews kept and current Jews keep days from sunset.
    Thus sabbath CANNOT be any Roman day like Saturday, Sunday, Monday,etc....it starts as it always did at sunset in the Holy Land [for the whole world at the same time - God's absolute time]
     
  9. rwc109

    rwc109 Active Member

    902
    +5
    Engaged
    The bible also says six days [that are not sabbath of God] shalt though labour, but to each his own, it is Israel , not necessarily us that were COMMANDED to KEEP sabbath.
    For us, distinct holy weekly sabbath of our God is an OPTIONAL UNCONDITIONAL blessing [Genesis 2:3], that we may take up to honour the sign of our God or ignore, or even keep pagan Roman days instead, it is indeed our free choice without judgement of man on us whatever we do.
    Jesus said it was made for us, it is up to us to avail ourselves of the blessing by keeping it or to ignore it, but we can hardly expect a blessing from keeping any Roman day!
     
  10. charlesj

    charlesj Member

    78
    +0
    I would like to start a new thread in response to this thread. I
    am going to call it "New Testametn Pattern." I will write it in about in four or five writings, due to the size limits we have on this forum. Thanks to all and we love you to Roger.

    your servant in Messiah, Jesus,
    charlesj
     
  11. charlesj

    charlesj Member

    78
    +0
    I wanted to post this morning, but my message exceed the amount of characters allowed. By the way, my new thread will be "New Testament Pattern," not "New Testametn Pattern."
    :)

    tks,
    charlesj
     
  12. charlesj

    charlesj Member

    78
    +0
    Jesus said John 11:9 "Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world."

    If you think there are 24 hours in a day, then argue with Jesus. I don't have enough authority.

    The parable I quoted in the thread earlier in Matthew 20 certainly wasn't meant to teach times or season of a year and this is what I said. But, you can look at the parable and see that our Lord is saying a man's wages was paid for a days work and that day was 12 hours long. Again, if you have a problem with the Roman 24 hour day, then argue with Jesus. If He is wrong, He will say "uncle" to you.

    your servant in Messiah, Jesus,
    charlesj
     
  13. rwc109

    rwc109 Active Member

    902
    +5
    Engaged
    In Yeshua's time the day was divided into watches and these subdivided into hours, thus the daylight was indeed 12 hours, but they weren't the EQUAL hours we know as from clocks, the best time measuring devices then were the Greek sundial and the Egyptian water clock....none very good at discriminating hours, but the day was divided into notional hours through the watches...your post is anachronistic!

    Gen 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

    Gen 1:8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

    All the Holy days of God start at sunset and end at sunset [in the Holy Land or near that meridean] - as recorded in the OT and kept by the Hebrews and the modern Jews [but changed by the Romans to their false standard that we keep by their tradition, not God's tradition as [selectively] kept by the Jews[even the Jews made mistakes in their tradition, so we have to prove each one from the Bible]
    The very first day started at evening and lasted to the next evening and this is usually NOT 24 hours as we measure hours today
    Sorry if my post confused you over the different bases by which man has defined hours [and days] throughout history.
    You are clearly going to have evn more problems when we get on to discussing calendars ! :D
     
  14. charlesj

    charlesj Member

    78
    +0
    Hi Roger:
    Thanks for your imput on time. I've looked at this over the years.
    If you will notice, in my earlier post, "two types of Sabbath keepers," I am showing what these two types of Sabbath keepers believe and say. I don't defend either group(s).

    After keeping the Sabbath for many years and going through all the "don't touch, don't eat, don't .......(fill in the blanks)," I left the 7th day Sabbath keeping in the early 70's. I am a new covenant
    child of God and don't worry about the keeping of days etc.

    Along with the Sabbath comes the dietary laws etc. Most Sabbath keepers follow the dietary laws of Moses and some even
    keep the feast days. Samuele Bacchiocchi is bringing some of the Sabbath keepers closer and closer (through his writings) to keeping most of the feast days.

    When one obeys the terms of the New Covenant, he (or she) is
    translated from the kingdom of death to the kingdom of His dear Son. We are no longer under the headship of Adam, but under the headship of the Second Adam, Jesus. It is no longer "fleshly," but is spiritual.

    I enjoy your writings, keep it up.

    your servant in Messiah, Jesus
    charlesj
     
  15. rwc109

    rwc109 Active Member

    902
    +5
    Engaged
    Yo friend Charles,beloved child of God,
    i have read some of S.B.....he doesn't even appreciate the effect of introducing timezone time less than 400years ago had on sabbath-keeping and seems to have little patience or interset for the problems it causes people near the two variable man-made date-lines....that is people who wish to keep sabbath who get confused when they get two days sabbath or no sabbath by crossing the dateline at the wrong(?) time(!) {or anything from 0-2 days, even in any number of bits....horrendous paradoxes and confusion}
    I think Yeshua was the only one to keep the old covenant and so bring in the new, even Israel will soon be wholly converted to the realisation that the new covenant is the only way forward for sinners, but you make a big mistake i think in not seeing that there is a lot more in the OT than the old covenant [the new covenant is there for one thing!]
    We certainly don't need the Levitical priest bit and all those sacrifices are but shadows where we have a real high priest who can deliver the effective request that God send us the spirit of truth.
    Thus with the rent veil of the temple, there are no earthly priests now until the immortal royal priesthood is set up at Christ's return,[God only set up the Levite and the Melchisedec Orders, none other!]
    we are the temple and we need no earthly priests [in us as-it-were], we have Christ as high priest to intercede for our sins and our Father to teach us through the spirit of truth...it is enough...so we can adore our God, learn His truth without corruptions of traditions of men, and through that love our fellow man...all too wonderful for me, I am overwhelmed with this grace through love,praise our beauteous God for the love He is..and we can deserve none of it...so we accept our suffering for a little while longer with rejoicing in confidence in love itself, looking toward the antichrist [satanical christ look-alike] soon and then the return of our beloved champion, our saviour in power of perfect truth
    Now that sabbath thing is a shadow of our eternal rest in God, it really isn't fulfilled yet, so it is still available as an optional unconditional blessing made for any man who chooses freely to avail himself of the sign of our God.....why not?

    Why? :-

    Isa 56:4 For thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant;
    Isa 56:5 Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.
    Isa 56:6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;
    Isa 56:7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.
    Isa 56:8 The Lord GOD, which gathereth the outcasts of Israel saith, Yet will I gather others to him, beside those that are gathered unto him.

    Isa 58:12 And they that shall be of thee shall build the old waste places: thou shalt raise up the foundations of many generations; and thou shalt be called, The repairer of the breach, The restorer of paths to dwell in.
    Isa 58:13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:
    Isa 58:14 Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.
    Isa 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
    Isa 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
    Jer 17:23 But they obeyed not, neither inclined their ear, but made their neck stiff, that they might not hear, nor receive instruction.
    Jer 17:24 And it shall come to pass, if ye diligently hearken unto me, saith the LORD, to bring in no burden through the gates of this city on the sabbath day, but hallow the sabbath day, to do no work therein;
    Jer 17:25 Then shall there enter into the gates of this city kings and princes sitting upon the throne of David, riding in chariots and on horses, they, and their princes, the men of Judah, and the inhabitants of Jerusalem: and this city shall remain for ever.
    Isa 56:4 For thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant;
    Isa 56:5 Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.
    Isa 56:6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;
    Isa 56:7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.
    Isa 56:8 The Lord GOD, which gathereth the outcasts of Israel saith, Yet will I gather others to him, beside those that are gathered unto him.

    Isa 58:12 And they that shall be of thee shall build the old waste places: thou shalt raise up the foundations of many generations; and thou shalt be called, The repairer of the breach, The restorer of paths to dwell in.
    Isa 58:13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:
    Isa 58:14 Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.
    Isa 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
    Isa 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
    Jer 17:23 But they obeyed not, neither inclined their ear, but made their neck stiff, that they might not hear, nor receive instruction.
    Jer 17:24 And it shall come to pass, if ye diligently hearken unto me, saith the LORD, to bring in no burden through the gates of this city on the sabbath day, but hallow the sabbath day, to do no work therein;
    Jer 17:25 Then shall there enter into the gates of this city kings and princes sitting upon the throne of David, riding in chariots and on horses, they, and their princes, the men of Judah, and the inhabitants of Jerusalem: and this city shall remain for ever.
     
  16. charlesj

    charlesj Member

    78
    +0
    Roger:
    Hang on... I will have to find time to answer your post.. BTW. thanks for your post, even though I don't agree with it.

    your servant in Messiah,
    charlesj
     
  17. charlesj

    charlesj Member

    78
    +0
    Roger and all:

    Send me your email address. What I have written is to large to place on this forum. I will also send you the full writing on the study on the Sabbath (I only clipped part out on "two types of Sabbath keepers.).

    Anyone else that would like these two studies, please send me
    your email address.
    My email is: [email protected]

    your servant in Messiah,

    charlesj

    ....thee things the Lord wants of us:
    1. to do justly,
    2. to love mercy,
    3. to walk humbly with the Lord. -Micah 6:6
     
  18. charlesj

    charlesj Member

    78
    +0
    Roger and all:
    Go to page 5 of this forum and read what I wrote on "Literal or
    Spiritual." It is in the form of an attachment.
    thanks,
    Your servant in Messiah, Jesus
    charlesj

    p.s. on an earlier post, above this one, I meand to say "three things the Lord wants of us," not "thee ...." :)
     
  19. rwc109

    rwc109 Active Member

    902
    +5
    Engaged
    Dear brother Charles,
    It appears that the bit about needing to observe the original timekeeping of God got missed in your text.....just as S.B. failed too recognise this major consideration in keeping the sabbath sign of God as He
    made it origiinally for man as a holy blessing.
    Have sent my e-mail, but reccomend that you use the private message facility on this site in future rather than make your e-mail address public [not everyone on the internet will necessarily respect your address as private]
     
  20. charlesj

    charlesj Member

    78
    +0
    Hi Roger:
    I finally took time to write a little on Isaiah 56 -- This is a very popular reference for Sabbath keepers as they think this applies for us today. I've seen this used for almost 30 years now. Back then we didn't have the internet as we do today, maybe this new speed of communication will help get closer to His Word. (By the way, I was with RCA Data Services and was one of the first to use the internet on a commercial basis. .... old huh?)


    Jehovah the Lord talks about the “better days to come,” (Isaiah 2:2,3; 42:6; 49:6,7; 54:1-3) the times of the New Covenant.
    In Isaiah 56 He speaks of them in particular. The setting is the Old Covenant period of time and one needs to understand when reading Isaiah that the Lord will speak and use terms that they understand. For example “in the latter days” of Isaiah 2 is the
    latter days of the Old Covenant. It was in the “latter days” that the New Covenant was established. Those that obey the gospel take on a new everlasting name and enter into a city “made without hands.” (Heb 12:22ff)

    Again, having mentioned that other nations would be in these “better days” to come Jehovah now speaks of them in particular, that is, Isaiah 56. Jehovah naturally assesses their loyalty to Him in terms of Judaic obedience. What other speech would have made sense then? He wants these outsiders assured that they have a place in the blessings to come.

    Isaiah 56:1-5
    Verse 1 – Jehovah tells them to keep judgment and do justice, and then The Lord tells the Jew that His Salvation is near to come and His righteousness is to be revealed. This statement along with Isa 46:13(“I bring My righteousness near, it shall not be far off; My salvation shall not linger. And I will place salvation in Zion, For Israel My glory.”) all point to the coming of Messiah, a blessed time for all.

    Verse 2 – Those that obey the Mosaic law, keeping the Sabbath and not doing evil will be blessed at that time (time of Messiah, the time His righteousness is revealed, that is, Jesus.)

    Verse 3- Even the Gentile who has obeyed the Old Covenant terms and joined himself to the Lord is not to worry as he will not be separated from the Lord’s people (Eph 2:12,13), Israel.
    Verse 4,5,6,7 speak of the time to come, the New Covenant time.
    a. The eunuchs that obey the Mosaic law and become a proselyte (take hold of his Covenant) will be blessed.
    b.The son of the stranger (Gentile) that takes hold of His Covenant and obeys the law will not be sorry.
    c.Those that obey Him will be given a new everlasting name.
    d.Those obedient will be brought to His Holy Mountain.

    This period of time has passed. It was like a "transistion" from Old to New Covenants. IN Isaiah 56, Jehovah assured those that obeyed the Mosaic Covenant, both Jew and the stranger(Gentile), that they would be blessed.
    The Sabbath keeper today only sees these verses as evidense that New Covenant people of God are to obey the Mosaic law (Sabbath commandment), but this is an error.
    The Lord Jehovah has revealed His Righteousness, Jesus, and those that obey the gospel are added to the church of the Living God and enter into a city made without hands. This city is made up of all the saints from Adam's time to the present and is growing. They are no longer under the headship of the first Adam, but have a new headship, The Lord Jesus Christ. We obey Jesus, not Moses. We are to hear His Son (Heb 1:1ff).

    your servant in Messiah, Jesus,
    charlesj
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...