[Open] tags-a read and respond thread for all

[visionary]

We are including MG (gentiles) aren't we?

We better be under the Messianic Judaism.. even if we are not Messianic Jews.

 

[Tishri1]

ok do you all like Shimshon's MJO tag? I can create one that will show up in the title with a drop down menu I think for clarity we will have "MJ only" as the tag though

 

[ChavaK]

ok do you all like Shimshon's MJO tag? I can create one that will show up in the title with a drop down menu I think for clarity we will have "MJ only" as the tag though

Makes sense to me.

 

[yedida]

Okay I guess that would be fine. I'm still not sure what we're talking about, so from this point on, I'll leave my agreement (or disagreement) in the hands such as Anisavta and Visionary, as they know what all this is. Thanks...

 

[ChavaK]

Okay I guess that would be fine. I'm still not sure what we're talking about, so from this point on, I'll leave my agreement (or disagreement) in the hands such as Anisavta and Visionary, as they know what all this is. Thanks...

It just means that if someone uses the MJ only tag, no one other
than Messianics should/can post there. It will keep Jews and Christians from posting in the thread.

Anything that does not havethat tag means others can post in it (while still following forum rules,
of course).

This gives people who do not wish to have non-Messianics post in their
thread the option to do so.

 

[Tishri1]

ok done MJ only Testing for MJ tag

 

[Shimshon]

What about Messianic Gentiles?



Not sure I understand, can you explain?

The reason I did not specifically mention Gentiles is because it is presumed that they are 'equal' in the body of Messiah. As the the forum title states Messianic Judaism - A forum for Messianic Jews and Gentiles.

There is a seat for Gentiles right next to Jews in this body. All this is Messianic 101 in my world. So the special identification for Gentiles is not needed. In my world.

In this forum, many Gentiles take on the image of the Jews. In this world I would imagine identification is required. But I don't live in that world.

As to the icon issue, I'm referring to the stark difference between Jews who were born into a form of Judaism and now accept the Gospel of Yeshua, and the Gentiles who were born into a form of Christianity and now reject that to embrace Torah observance as Israel. There are two extreme ends to this forum, Jewish Christians and Torah observant Gentiles (one law). The two can never meet, as they are diametrically opposed in their theologies. YET, we hold the same icon.

So, when you solve this issue, and separate out the two with individual icons, this situation will continue ad nauseum. Like it does over at CARM.

I find that Christian forums have yet to respect the divisions between those of the Messianic faith. This has been my main focus of complaint. I don't fight to have one eradicated, I want respectable fences. Wow, and look who desires a 'fence'?

 

[Shimshon]

ok done MJ only Testing for MJ tag

Cool, I didn't like the brackets anyway.

 

[yedida]

It just means that if someone uses the MJ only tag, no one other
than Messianics should/can post there. It will keep Jews and Christians from posting in the thread.

Anything that does not havethat tag means others can post in it (while still following forum rules,
of course).

This gives people who do not wish to have non-Messianics post in their
thread the option to do so.

As Steve P (I think) stated, that won't solve the problem. Why in the world would we not want you guys to join in with us? I love it that you guys are here, I've learned soooo much from all of you.

 

[Tishri1]

The reason I did not specifically mention Gentiles is because it is presumed that they are 'equal' in the body of Messiah. As the the forum title states Messianic Judaism - A forum for Messianic Jews and Gentiles.

There is a seat for Gentiles right next to Jews in this body. All this is Messianic 101 in my world. So the special identification for Gentiles is not needed. In my world.

In this forum, many Gentiles take on the image of the Jews. In this world I would imagine identification is required. But I don't live in that world.

As to the icon issue, I'm referring to the stark difference between Jews who were born into a form of Judaism and now accept the Gospel of Yeshua, and the Gentiles who were born into a form of Christianity and now reject that to embrace Torah observance as Israel. There are two extreme ends to this forum, Jewish Christians and Torah observant Gentiles (one law). The two can never meet, as they are diametrically opposed in their theologies. YET, we hold the same icon.

So, when you solve this issue, and separate out the two with individual icons, this situation will continue ad nauseum. Like it does over at CARM.

I find that Christian forums have yet to respect the divisions between those of the Messianic faith. This has been my main focus of complaint. I don't fight to have one eradicated, I want respectable fences. Wow, and look who desires a 'fence'?

well we have the two forums.....Lets start a new thread and add a poll to see if we need two separate icons though ok? we already have two.... for MJ and non Trin MJ.... what would happen if we lose the non trin MJ and had Hebrew Christian and MJ?

But the bigger question is how would that help?help with what issues?

What happens over at CARM?

 

[yedida]

The reason I did not specifically mention Gentiles is because it is presumed that they are 'equal' in the body of Messiah. As the the forum title states Messianic Judaism - A forum for Messianic Jews and Gentiles.

There is a seat for Gentiles right next to Jews in this body. All this is Messianic 101 in my world. So the special identification for Gentiles is not needed. In my world.

In this forum, many Gentiles take on the image of the Jews. In this world I would imagine identification is required. But I don't live in that world.

As to the icon issue, I'm referring to the stark difference between Jews who were born into a form of Judaism and now accept the Gospel of Yeshua, and the Gentiles who were born into a form of Christianity and now reject that to embrace Torah observance as Israel. There are two extreme ends to this forum, Jewish Christians and Torah observant Gentiles (one law). The two can never meet, as they are diametrically opposed in their theologies. YET, we hold the same icon.

So, when you solve this issue, and separate out the two with individual icons, this situation will continue ad nauseum. Like it does over at CARM.

I find that Christian forums have yet to respect the divisions between those of the Messianic faith. This has been my main focus of complaint. I don't fight to have one eradicated, I want respectable fences. Wow, and look who desires a 'fence'?

I agree wholehearted with you. As far as I'm concerned there is no division between a Jewish believer and a gentile believer. I was just wanting to make sure that this thinking applied.
And you're right. This part of the forum is gonna stay unsettled until we can settle that one issue.

 

[ChavaK]

As Steve P (I think) stated, that won't solve the problem. Why in the world would we not want you guys to join in with us? I love it that you guys are here, I've learned soooo much from all of you.

Well, thank you. I don't get it either, but some prefer to only converse
with Messianics. For those, they use the MJ only tag, and no one
other than Messianics can post there. It gives people options as to
who (or is it whom? I always forget...) they wish to converse. If you
don't use the tag, Jews can post in the thread.

 

[Shimshon]

well we have the two forums.....Lets start a new thread and add a poll to see if we need two separate icons though ok? we already have two.... for MJ and non Trin MJ.... what would happen if we lose the non trin MJ and had Hebrew Christian and MJ?

But the bigger question is how would that help?help with what issues?

What happens over at CARM?

To be fair, i'm not for the icon split, as opposed to using the two forums at the top the way they were intended.

I think you need to leave the titles alone and let the Torah observant Messianic Believers forum be for one law theology. Let the Messianic Hebrew Christian forum be for 'faith only' theology. Mind you, I use the term faith only to identify the way they see it, not me. I do not see it as faith only. But you should understand what I'm getting at.

If you use these forums the way they were intended this would eliminate the need to created another icon and divide out the people more. These divisions (forums) were placed here years ago, and should be used.

You don't want to know what happens over at CARM. I think contra said something about it months back that I chuckled over. Something about 'doing time' over there. It's and endless circle of one law arguments.

 

[Tishri1]

ahhhhh ok

well tell me if Im hearing you right.....are you talking about subjects then...should we have threads moved that discuss Grace (Christian law)into the Hebrew Christian forum and threads that discuss Torah(MJ law) into the Torah observant forum?

Thoughts everyone?

 

[Shimshon]

If you
don't use the tag, Jews can post in the thread.

Mind you, don't think it's only Orthodox Jews that are being censored. It's also Cross bearing icon memebers too (Christians). If you'll recall there are many times where certain posters here get all bent out of shape that 'Christians' are posting in their 'MJ' forum.

It's not all about limiting only Rabbinical Jews in threads, it's also about censoring Christian input as well.

Remember, certain members identify themselves outside of mainstream core beliefs, and appear to want the privilage to be outside, from within.

 

[anisavta]

So it should only be used as a safety valve if we need it. And most of us here know the respectful balance we've worked hard for - who posts on a regular basis and who may come in just to upset that balance. I think we all are mature enough not to use it as a punishment.

 

[Shimshon]

ahhhhh ok

well tell me if I'm hearing you right.....are you talking about subjects then...should we have threads moved that discuss Grace (Christian law)into the Hebrew Christian forum and threads that discuss Torah(MJ law) into the Torah observant forum?

Thoughts everyone?

I don't think subjects are going to cut deep enough into this problem. It's way deep in the theology of the person. You may want to keep us all in one group but I don't think you can succeed where thousands of years of theological divisions have failed.

I mean, you can call it subjects, but the real issue is those subjects are touchy because they touch on the persons core beliefs. Which differ from the stated core beliefs of the movement.

you can't gloss over the utter contrast of beliefs by thinking it's only a problem when you bring up the subject. Don't ask, don't tell comes to mind.

But I think we all need to be honest here, and give each other places of sancuary. Because as you have agreed, there is a serious division here in the MJ forums. And unless you give each other a place were they feel free to be, in accord with the whole of CF, there will remain strife and fighting in this forum.

Why do I say this, because I've seen it for almost 10 yrs. Can we move on, and grow? Or will we be just like CARM, and remain a divided bickering forum because we have two opposing theologies living under one roof?

 

[Tishri1]

there are two forums

 

[Lulav]

I haven't read through this whole thread so I hope it won't be closed before I can respond when I am more awake tomorrow.

But why do we need so much segregation?

 

[visionary]

ahhhhh ok

well tell me if Im hearing you right.....are you talking about subjects then...should we have threads moved that discuss Grace (Christian law)into the Hebrew Christian forum and threads that discuss Torah(MJ law) into the Torah observant forum?

Thoughts everyone?

I like that idea.. then it is clear where everyone stands by where it is a welcomed post.