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Sign Of The Fish Burger

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I thought this might be an interesting discussion.

I've recently gotten into the HBO series titled Big Love about a polygamist Mormon family in Utah.

Just wondering what everyone's views are??

Polygamy is talked about through the OT- so when did it stop? Why did it stop and why is it so frowned upon?
 
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PaladinValer

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There may come a time in this country when you see it. Every single argument made on behalf for homosexual marriage can be directly transferred to polygamy.

Since homosexuals are asking to have their monogomous relationships and unions recognized, your claimed equation is worth diddly.
 
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invisible trousers

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There's a heck of a lot more biblical precedent for polygamy than there is for same sex marriage. Personally I think it would just be a hassle and a waste of time and energy.

There may come a time in this country when you see it. Every single argument made on behalf for homosexual marriage can be directly transferred to polygamy.

Can you tell me about polygamy in nations and states which have legalized same sex marriage?

edit: there's another name for that argument, it's called slippery slope.
 
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ShermanN

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Actually polygamy never stopped. It was practiced by the Jews until the 11th Century (if memory serves me correctly). It was practiced in both Old and New Testament times. And it is still practiced around the world in various cultures, especially in the Middle East. Polyandry (a woman with multiple husbands) is much rarer but is also practiced in a culture in Nepal/Bhutan.

There was a rabbinical debate concerning polygamy during the time of Christ. Supporters of polygamy pointed out that the patriarchs were polygamous, that the Law does not forbid polygamy, and in fact the Law actually regulates specific polygamous relationships thus indirectly allowing polygamy.

Rabbinical opponents of polygamy pointed to the flood and especially to creation. When speaking of creation they would quote Gen.2 from the Septuagint, "and the TWO shall become one flesh." They quoted the Septuagint because the Hebrew scripture actually says, "and THEY shall become one flesh".

It is significant to note that Jesus when speaking with the Pharisees concerning the "Any Matter" divorce debate actually quotes from the LXX saying "and the TWO shall become one flesh." Thus it can be said that Jesus endorsed monogamy as part of the divine ideal of marriage, the best, what God originally intended. However, one can not say that Jesus legislated monogamy, or implied that monogamy was the only viable family structure.

Since the fall of mankind, various cultures have found polygamy to be helpful, even necessary, particularly when war killed off many of the men. Not only that, but men naturally do not loose the biological drive/desire to procreate until very late in life, if ever. Whereas women loose the biological drive/desire to procreate mid-life. (Of course I'm speaking in broad generalities.)

So if Jesus endorsed monogamy, but did not legislate monogamy much less forbid polygamy, where did the church pick up the doctrine of monogamy? It came predominantly from the churches Greco-Roman "heritage."

The first great division in the church was between Jews and Gentiles. Jewish Christians were persecuted by the Romans for being Jewish, and by the Jews for being Christians. And thus by 200 A.D. the Jewish branch of the church had been persecuted almost from existence, whereas the Gentile branch flourished. Largely due to this persecution, the Gentile branch increasingly and quickly disassociated itself from Judaism, including changing the day of worship and forsaking completely the Law. By 400 A.D. the church had fully disassociated itself from anything Jewish.

Anyhow, this great divide left the church relying very heavily upon it's own culture, the Greco-Roman culture to draw from for it's values and philosophies. One area that it drew from most was the family. Platonic thought permeated and still permeates much of the Western church. Concerning family, marriage, and sex, Plato, Greco-Roman thought was pretty messed up. In the early Gentile church, sex actually came to be looked on as evil even within marriage. And monastic life became the preferred way of life. The seeds of this can be seen as early as in 1 Cor. when Paul addresses the problem of Christians prefering singleness to the point of even divorceing their spouses if necessary.

Anyhow, the traditional doctrine of MDR (including the legislation concerning monogamy) arose out of a combination of these errant attitudes and beliefs concerning family, marriage, and sex of the early Gentile church; and a misunderstanding of what Jesus said concerning MDR.

Jesus endorsed monogamy, but He didn't forbid polygamy. And the Law regulated polygamy, but it too did not forbid polygamy.

Please don't misunderstand me, I too endorse monogamy as the best and healthiest family structure. But I would not expect an Arab with 4 wives to divorce 3 of his wives in order to become a Christian. And if I lived in a country/culture that allowed polygamy, I might consider polygamy (if my wife would let me!) :D

Blessings,
Sherman
 
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dayhiker

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There may come a time in this country when you see it. Every single argument made on behalf for homosexual marriage can be directly transferred to polygamy.

In my reading about peoples lives had l have found that there is actually a lot of polyigamy in America right now. Its not published that much. The people involved don't advocate for it very much. The name it goes by is polyamorus, meaning many loves. Those participating view it as as a way of maturing because they have to learn so well the comunication skills to deal with the issues. To deal with the issues the have to know themselves very well. Know their emotions, how to talk about them and how to set aside harmful emotions.

The few poly I have got to talk with are very open to talk about their life. They have an honest that I often don't fine even in Christians. By that I mean they will be honest about a wide range of topics. Christians I have found in my 40+ years as a Christian are honest about a narrower list of topics and often avoid talking about quite a few topics. As always there are some exceptions who I seek out to be freinds with.

Noticing that about half of the American population fail at living monogamy in one of several ways. Having had a marriage failed because we couldn't talk about a number of issues without there bring a major seperation even tho my ex wanted honesty; I'd much rather try a woman that wants to live a poly lifestyle than a monogamous one the next time around. Time will tell.

those are my thoughts on this topic.
Oh, if you know real poly people, you will learn sex is down the line in importance. If you think sex is why ther is poly relationships it really showd some niativity(sp).

dayhiker
 
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Solidlyhere

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I have no problems with Polygamy.

I am plenty pleased to have just one spouse, but I don't care if others wish to have 2 (or more).

My only "problem" with it is worrying about that 2nd wife, and how she must deal with her feelings of jealousy about the "other" one.

So, when I hear about Mormons (in the USA) with multiple wives, I feel for the wives.
And, for other countries, I know it happens, but I don't hear about it: Out of sight, out of mind.

Certainly God doesn't have a problem with Polygamy either.
If He did, God would have announced that fact (or, Jesus would have said something, or Paul).
So, there is NO Biblical problem for any Christian to marry and re-marry.
(The ONLY problem arises when a man divorces a wife, and marries another one.)

Yet, many people sneer at the idea of having "extra" wives (and it's Illegal).
We also have laws about not marrying Cousins either (Political Correctness).
 
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JDIBe

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There's a heck of a lot more biblical precedent for polygamy than there is for same sex marriage. Personally I think it would just be a hassle and a waste of time and energy.



Can you tell me about polygamy in nations and states which have legalized same sex marriage?

edit: there's another name for that argument, it's called slippery slope.

Well blow up your inner-tube, my friend...We're about to go for a ride....

Civil unions not good enough...

http://www.stamfordadvocate.com/new...4,0,245988.story?coll=hc-headlines-local-wire


Polygamy

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11786790/site/newsweek/

My favorite quote:
Activists point to Canada, where, in January, a report commissioned by the Justice Department recommended decriminalizing polygamy.
 
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invisible trousers

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Of course civil unions aren't good enough if they don't offer the same rights as marriage.

Regarding the polygamy party, could you tell me how cult mormons, who've always wanted polygamy legalized, are related to the movement which wants equal rights for gay people?


If you're going to argue that gay marriage leads to polygamy, you need to provide evidence that gay marriage leads to polygamy. Right now you've shown me two unrelated events that are happening on different sides of the country.
 
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JDIBe

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Of course civil unions aren't good enough if they don't offer the same rights as marriage.

Regarding the polygamy party, could you tell me how cult mormons, who've always wanted polygamy legalized, are related to the movement which wants equal rights for gay people?


If you're going to argue that gay marriage leads to polygamy, you need to provide evidence that gay marriage leads to polygamy. Right now you've shown me two unrelated events that are happening on different sides of the country.

You mean the group of people who want equal rights for polygamists? Don't tell me your a "polygophobe"? :)

My opinion is that all of the arguments that one could try to make for gay marriage can be logically applied to polygamy as well. Someone asked for evidence for evidence of polygamy activity in a country where gay marriage is accepted, and I provided it for them.

As for them being unrelated, if you would read the articles, you would see the polygamists specifically mention the gay marriage movement as a legal driving force, and the gay marriage movement specifically mentions the polygamy movement. I hardly think you can make a case they are unrelated at this point.

I'm still not convinced gay marriage is a good thing. Please provide me a good reason for gay marriage (and if it wouldn't also apply to polygamy that would be great as well, since your contention is they are completely unrelated.)
 
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ShermanN

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Regardless of what the Bible says, I refuse to believe that a man can "spread" his love across several women.
"Regardless of what the Bible says," -- hmmm, interesting, reminds me of the attitude of my teenagers. They know everything too.
 
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dayhiker

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The more I think about how I ran my eariler life based on how I understood the church and society modelling things. The more I'm not interested in doing that again.

I've moved a lot in my life and have always found freinds where I moved to. I got married in college, moved and wefound some freinds in church because one guys always made freinds adn invited people to his house. We moved again and didn't find a situation were freinds developed much beyond the church and SS services. So I ended up with few real friends in real life.

Anyways all that to say I now know I need several good freinds to live a healthy life. Those freindships are about love. Having kids is about love. My sisters is about love and my parents and grandparents are about love. We can love a lot of people. Yet our western society says we can only love on wife or husband. Doesn't add up to me. In general it seems to me the more relationships the more love goes round if one doesn't stab them in the back ... or to say it an other way if one does the relationship work.

But I find it easy to get along with people. So maybe I look at life differntly.
dayhiker
 
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dayhiker

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I think it was the mormons that liked Jesus' saying that He had other sheep.

I'd have not problem if Jesus had another bride. I don't have a clue who that would be tho. Yet Jesus did give the parable of the 10 virgins .. so He didn't have a problem in talking about a man taking more than one wife.

Also God in the Major Prophets is refered to as having two wives: Judah and Isreal. So God does use that idea in His word.

dayhiker
 
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JDIBe

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I think it was the mormons that liked Jesus' saying that He had other sheep.

I'd have not problem if Jesus had another bride. I don't have a clue who that would be tho. Yet Jesus did give the parable of the 10 virgins .. so He didn't have a problem in talking about a man taking more than one wife.

Also God in the Major Prophets is refered to as having two wives: Judah and Isreal. So God does use that idea in His word.

dayhiker
Good point, but for clarification, the 10 virgins were bridesmaids, not the brides.
 
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