[Open] Non-Christian Sticky

[Fish and Bread]

Vespers are an Orthodox tradition for which there doesn't seem to be an exact western equivalent (Other than what's in the breviary, which I am assuming is not actually the same thing). Since my background is western, I was wondering if someone might be willing to explain to me what vespers are, exactly. What is their theological purpose? Are there a similar number of attendees at vespers as at the divine liturgy or are they more in the category of a Catholic daily mass or Protestant Wednesday night bible study (i.e. optional things not attended by the majority of parishioners)? Practically, what would I see if I were to visit an Orthodox parish one Saturday evening? Is there a liturgy of sorts? Incense? Kissing of icons? How long does it last? Do people stand or sit?

 

[Happy Orthodox]

Vespers are an Orthodox tradition for which there doesn't seem to be an exact western equivalent. Since my background is western, I was wondering if someone might be willing to explain to me what vespers are, exactly. What is their theological purpose? Are there a similar number of attendees at vespers as at the divine liturgy or are they more in the category of a Catholic daily mass or Protestant Wednesday night bible study (i.e. optional things not attended by the majority of parishioners)? Practically, what would I see if I were to visit an Orthodox parish one Saturday evening? Is there a liturgy of sorts? Incense? Kissing of icons? How long does it last? Do people stand or sit?

I'm not sure about the theological purpose of vespers. I know that in Orthodoxy we have services every 3 hours, and besides vespers we have many more services like doxology, matins, morning hours in the morning, all-night vigils, and other various services. I'm not sure what each means, but we were commanded to pray as often as we could. Monasteries are usually better at keeping up with those. Some big churches also do every cervice. Parish churches don't do as much. I know that vespers marks the beginning of the new day (Bysantine time).

Vespers is just like any other Orthodox service. It's like Liturgy without the Liturgy of the Faithful. Various psalms and himns are sang, the priest does the Ektenias (those with the "Lord have mercy" sang after each sentence). The enterance with the Gospel is made. Everybody may stand, but that is not necessary. There is kissing of everything and everybody as usual. Insense and everything as ususal, but no, no food... Maybe a cup of coffee or tea.

Usually there is less people, and the church is filled with peace, contrition, reverence, quietness. I like it when it's dark outside and the church is only lit with candles and oil lamps. What a place to be at!

 

[nutroll]

As far as I know, there is a Western (Catholic) equivalent to Vespers, which is called Vespers. I think it is still performed in monasteries, not so sure about in parish practice.

In the Orthodox Church, it is the beginning of the liturgical day, and part of the preparation for the Liturgy in the case of Great Vespers. There are two practices that I have seen, one is Great Vespers on Saturday night, and then Orthros(Matins) on Sunday morning leading directly into the Liturgy. There is also Vigil, which is a combination of Vespers and Matins into one service the night before Liturgy is served. What you would see on a Saturday night might very well depend on where you go.

I wouldn't really call it similar to Saturday Mass (it's not a Eucharistic service) or to an evening Bible study (It is an actual service that is required as part of the liturgical cycle). Generally speaking, unless one attends a very active parish, there are far fewer people who attend Vespers than attend Liturgy the next day.

Vespers consists of Psalms, litanies, prayers, incense, and the people will kiss icons. There is no Gospel reading (unless you're at Vigil), no epistle, no communion. I would say it lasts about 45 minutes usually, and is a beautiful service which would be a good experience for a person new to Orthodoxy.

There is bound to be a fair amount of standing even if there are pews. If there are no pews, there would be no sitting. (There are probably a few chairs somewhere if you would really need to sit for some reason.

 

[Shubunkin]

Not that it has very much to do with Orthodoxy... but there was the Great Library at Alexandria, founded by Ptolemy of Egypt, that was lost through invasions and subsequent burnings and destruction, several times. I know many writings may have had a lot to do with the Romans engineering skills, but there were many collected writings of many scholars through the ages that were lost there. They recently found a shipwreck with a mechanical device, which was featured on The History Channel a few nights ago, and someone figured out how to build one like it. The sets of gears and the workings were phenomenally amazing for that period of time. I know the ancients were not dummies (as scientists try to make us believe, sometimes). They found diagrams and drawings that proved the Romans had a mileage machine that could mark the miles on the Appian Way, and other Roman roads. This man proved that the tools available to the makers of these machines could be made with practice in precision and attention to detail. He demonstrated how the brass or bronze could be fashioned into a gear with notches in it. Anyway, it was fascinating. They also had clocks which ran by water. Archaeology fascinates me... forgive me, I get carried away sometimes.