Do messianics, like other Christians, believe that "Christianity is the perfection of Judaism"? Or perhaps changed to "Messianic belief is the perfection of Judaism"?
[open]Is"Messianic belief the perfection of Judaism"?
- Thread starter Talmidah
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What a question. It's like a can of worms.
My personal observation...I believe it's the later.
Most Messianics believe that they can be Torah Observant and follow Yeshua..thus making Judaism perfect.
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I'd say that Christianity is not the perfection of Judaism.
I would say that a refined Messianic Jewish faith (included in that Messianic Gentiles who are true to their own cultural heritage and are part of the commonwealth of Israel.) is a more accurate continuation of Jewish faith.
I (we?) believe Israel (specifically Jerusalem) will be the 'capitol' of the world and Messiah Yeshua will rule as King over the earth. All the Nations must pay tribute to the King and observe certain feasts and appointed times. (Found in Torah.) That the Living Torah Himself will reign. (Thus, complete fulfillment.)
When Messiah comes (again) the fullness of what Torah foreshadowed will be revealed. The first time, He came to enlighten us through Torah teaching and be the sacrificial Lamb and First Fruits of the resurrection. Next, He will come to defeat Israel's enemies and rule as King.
A large portion of the Christian community believes that Christianity (a religion separate from Judaism) will be the ruling faith and the new Israel. Jews will convert to Christianity. They will accept a new religion, life style, etc. Some support Israel only because they think a Gentile Jesus is coming and they will all be whisked away and leave the Jews to battle out Armageddon.
Well, we think Yeshua will reveal Himself to all of Israel... and many will be surprised to find a JEWISH messiah ruling in a Jewish context. The Christian world might be slightly surprised when mass 'conversions' to a different faith don't take place- instead- Jewish believers remain Jewish and walk in 'completeness' :Torah & Messiah Yeshua.
When Israel sees Yeshua as her Messiah it will be a big "Ah-ha" moment. And a time of joy & sorrw. Not because they realize "We should have changed our religion and followed the Christian god." But more like, "We should have know our own Messiah!"
Many in the MJ community believe the number of believing Jews in Israel will greatly increase right before Messiah returns. And Israel herself will call upon Yeshua to save them- which He does.
I would say that a refined Messianic Jewish faith (included in that Messianic Gentiles who are true to their own cultural heritage and are part of the commonwealth of Israel.) is a more accurate continuation of Jewish faith.
I (we?) believe Israel (specifically Jerusalem) will be the 'capitol' of the world and Messiah Yeshua will rule as King over the earth. All the Nations must pay tribute to the King and observe certain feasts and appointed times. (Found in Torah.) That the Living Torah Himself will reign. (Thus, complete fulfillment.)
When Messiah comes (again) the fullness of what Torah foreshadowed will be revealed. The first time, He came to enlighten us through Torah teaching and be the sacrificial Lamb and First Fruits of the resurrection. Next, He will come to defeat Israel's enemies and rule as King.
A large portion of the Christian community believes that Christianity (a religion separate from Judaism) will be the ruling faith and the new Israel. Jews will convert to Christianity. They will accept a new religion, life style, etc. Some support Israel only because they think a Gentile Jesus is coming and they will all be whisked away and leave the Jews to battle out Armageddon.
Well, we think Yeshua will reveal Himself to all of Israel... and many will be surprised to find a JEWISH messiah ruling in a Jewish context. The Christian world might be slightly surprised when mass 'conversions' to a different faith don't take place- instead- Jewish believers remain Jewish and walk in 'completeness' :Torah & Messiah Yeshua.
When Israel sees Yeshua as her Messiah it will be a big "Ah-ha" moment. And a time of joy & sorrw. Not because they realize "We should have changed our religion and followed the Christian god." But more like, "We should have know our own Messiah!"
Many in the MJ community believe the number of believing Jews in Israel will greatly increase right before Messiah returns. And Israel herself will call upon Yeshua to save them- which He does.
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Christianity can't seem to get it together - and Judaism has a huge range of belief and practice as well.
We see in part, now, but when the Perfect comes, we will see fully.
No doubt HaShem is doing something in the world... we just need to be in tune with His Spirit and find out what it is.
We see in part, now, but when the Perfect comes, we will see fully.
No doubt HaShem is doing something in the world... we just need to be in tune with His Spirit and find out what it is.
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ORI
Regular Member
Let me say this: Judaism is independent of all. The Christian faith is built upon Judaism to a point. If Judaism were removed Christianity would collapse. Judaism is the first and only monotheistic religion. Read The Thirteen Foundations of the Ramba'm Judaism is perfected.
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insaneinthebrain
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Until Messiah returns to sort our religious mess out, I hardly think we can use any form of the word "perfect" in a description.
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Charles YTK
Well-Known Member
Yes,, HaShem and the spirit ARE doing something, and have been doing it for almost two millennia; and that is bringing into existance the Kingdom of God, where all men know God because the Spirit of God lives in them changing them from within to be a new creature who are sons and daughters, children of God.
Christianity merged with the Roman Empire and tried to take the world by force and create the Kingdom. This was a completely Godless work bringing forth only rivers of blood as a witness against the church, who was drunk on the blood of the saints. Today the little tender shoots of Kingdom life, (Natzars) are sprining up like when Moshe would jab his walking stick into the ground, "Spring up O Well and bring water" and the people were refreshed. All over the world the reality of God's Kingdom is springing up and refreshing the hearts and thirsty souls of men. In some of those places it is being snuffed out and buried by the traditions of men and in others replaced with a zeal to re-establish the Kingdom of Israel by creating a reformation in Judaism (The religion) rather than living as a new creature through the indwelling of the Ruah HaKdesh, the very thing that Yeshua prescribed, "Unless a man is born again he can not see the Kingdom of God!"
Yeshua said that the Kingdom of God is right here right now and is within us. We need only believe and begin walking in it. And at the appointed time He will return for the ingathering of the final harvest and to sit visibly upon His thone.
Shalom,
Charles
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