[open] hurtful words

[BigNorsk]

I'm just pointing out that the hurt can be in the ear of the listener. Is something not intended to hurt, hurtful, if the speaker intended no hurt but the listener felt hurt? Sounds like you and your husband have that discussion quite a bit. Sounds like each of you have concluded that it is not hurtful when you say it but it is when you hear it. How's that working for you?

There's lots of relationships out there destroyed both by hurtful speakers and by people that get hurt by almost anything.

If the person is intending to hurt, then that must be dealt with, the very question of why he or she wants to hurt the very people that he or she would claim to love.

If, on the other hand, the listener takes offense at basically anything. Then while the speaker can be admonished to be careful, the basic problem that needs to be worked on is why does the listener take everything in a bad manner?

Relationships with a person who seems determined to take offense go downhill because the other doesn't know what can be said. The two ways many respond are trying to say as little as possible and avoid to the greatest extent, or to actually lash out and start to speak in an intentionally hurtful manner, it's almost like when I tried to be nice she was hurt so why try?

Often by the time they seek help it's almost impossible because the hurts have piled so deep that you often end up with two people seemingly doing their best to hurt and be hurt and usually blaming the other as if they had nothing to do with it. Each tend to be so on edge that a simple statement like "Nice day isn't it?" is probably greeted with some sort of "Why, what do you care?" type of comeback.

One can attempt to assign blame but about all that gets you is a big counseling bill and a bad marriage.

Both need to stop trying to hurt. And both need to stop assuming the other is trying to hurt them. If they do so, they can make their relationship much better in a pretty short time. Often, one or both is not willing to stop dwelling on the past and continuing to blame the other and then not much of anything changes.

Marv

 

[Digit]

This is mostly a question to the husbands but ladies feel free to comment as well. Guys when you say things that could be heard by your wife as hurtful do you realize it or are you oblivious?

I would like to think I realise it. In fact, I've been doing this a lot lately without even meaning too, and it comes mainly from just not thinking before I speak. I don't think I ever say things which are directly hurtful, it's more I am aware of certain issues for instance, where we have difficulties, and then I say something in regards to a seperate issue or event, which just so happens to link neatly into the others too, and before I know it, I feel terrible and so does my wife. So in that respect, yeah I think I realise it, and I do my best to repair the damage and reinforce that little wall which stops me speaking before thinking.

No doubt my wife has a different stance on it, and I am sure she will be along shortly to tell you the real story, as she is actively stalking me on these boards.

*glances left...*
*glances right...*
*makes a dash for the window!*

Digit

 

[ImaginaryVoyager]

I disagree with this - I think depending on tone of voice, personality and some other factors the wife may very well be "in her right mind" and still draw that conclusion. It may be hard for you to imagine, as a man, but it can happen without the wife being oversensitive. Maybe oversensitive compared to men, but women are more sensitive overall - that does not mean we're over sensitive, just MORE sensitive.

Well, the "other factors" would be totally outside the realm of the conversation given. There's no logical link between "He thinks I don't know how to do anything! He wants to keep women financially disabled and incompetent in his mind. He doesn't want to support me in my efforts and contributions to the family. The least he could do is say 'wow, I'm glad you found an opportunity" and "It's a scam." The reaction has nothing to do with the statement he made. The reaction is pure fantasy concocted in the wife's mind. She might just well have thought, "He thinks there are invisible pink unicorns dancing in our garden". In this case, if she really thought that, and doesn't tell her husband, she is the one at fault for feeling hurt. I suppose she could use a pejorative like "oblivious" to describe her husband's actions, but the obliviousness would be perpetrated entirely by her own failure to communicate that her reaction was based on factors totally independent of the conversation at hand.

But see, this is what the OP is about. "Nobody would able to guess" except another woman, to which the interpretation might seem totally obvious.

I really wonder if many women would make a logical connection between the wife's reaction to the statement "It's a scam." There's no logical basis for the reaction in the example you gave.

The man, in the case above, did not bother to listen to her extensive research, but instead chose to cling to his unsupported emotional conclusion. He chose to put his opinion above the possibility of fact, and high above her own opinion. So that small rejection of her idea represented a much broader statement.

In the example, the wife did not present any extensive research. She only said that she had researched it for two days, and that the price was "only" $200.

Plus, it is very common knowledge that a lot of these "businesses" that require an up front payment in these amounts are scams, so it is not accurate to say the husband was clinging to an "unsupported emotional conclusion". He was basing it on well known facts.

Now, I agree with you that the husband could've handled this better. There's no doubt about that. His first response should have been to ask her all about the business and the research she did. So, the wife does have a legitimate complaint in that the husband jumped to a conclusion too quickly.

But, from the example given, I think it is completely unrealistic to pin some kind of misogynistic conspiracy to "keep women financially disabled and incompetent." on the husband. That's out of line.

 

[c1ners]

I'll give you a couple examples of hurtful words that may not be intended to hurt, but do.

Situation 1: Wife meets friend of husbands for first time.
Friend: Wow your wife is really beauitful! Why didn't you tell me she was so beautiful? why have you been keeping her such a secret?

Husband: She's not beauitful, she's just my wife.
Ouch!
Now understand this: Husband didn't like his friend making such a big deal out of his wife. He may have felt threatened, but his words cut like a knife.

Situation 2:Last year our daughter got into a tremendous amount of trouble. Things went from bad to worse, and mom/wife had no idea what to do to help daughter. When school finally ended, daughter went out of state for a month to visit family. In the meantime, mom found out things that made her heart break, and decided that the best thing for daughter would be for her to stay where she was at instead of coming back home. The decision was not made lightly, nor was it made out of anger. But instead it was made out of love and concern for the daughter. Mom misses daughter something awful, but everytime she mentions it to husband he gets mad and tells her that it's her own fault for sending her away. That he doens't want to hear about it anymore.
Mom did everything she could that year to save her daughter. She had no help from the husband/dad. She didn't want to send her away. Especially not to live with the people husband chose for her to live with. But everytime mom/wife gets sad about missing the daughter she gets those words thrown in her face. "It was you who sent her away!" That hurts, and it's totally uncalled for. I sacrificed my happiness for the safety of my daughter, and to be told constantly that it's all my fault hurts.

Situation 3: There's a tropical system on the coast. Husband seemingly thought we would get rain out of the system. When I brought up the fact that systems on that side of the coast normally pulled the moisture out of the air instead of bringing it in, I was called stupid, and I had no idea of what I was talking about. But I had no right to get upset about being called stupid. He was only trying to correct me. Why do I always have to be so darned sensitive? By the way, the rain that was expected for today has been lessened due to the fact that the moisture is being pulled away from us. Wife isn't that stupid after all, is she?

What I'm trying to get at is that husband never sees his words as hurtful. Nor does he understand that the tone of his voice while saying these things tends to add oil to the fire.

I'm not saying only men say hurtful words. I can get pretty vicious myself. But when I get angry and say hurtful words, they're meant to be hurtful. Mean things don't come out of my mouth just for the heck of it. I think about what I'm saying before I say it. Most of the time.

 

[heron]

Husband: She's not beauitful, she's just my wife.

Ouch again!

But instead it was made out of love and concern for the daughter. Mom misses daughter something awful, but everytime she mentions it to husband he gets mad and tells her that it's her own fault for sending her away. That he doens't want to hear about it anymore.

That hurts, and it's totally uncalled for. I sacrificed my happiness for the safety of my daughter, and to be told constantly that it's all my fault hurts.

That is probably the strongest pull in your heart!
I do think that his reaction is typical of a man -- seeing the straightforward answer instead of the complicated tangle.

The reaction has nothing to do with the statement he made.

The logic of the reaction comes from a history -- as Norsk said, people store these things in their minds.

Women's brains have thicker corpus collossum connective tissue, which ties more thoughts together when making a decision. Men are able to keep a more direct thought, and women connect too many things, drawing more factors into decisions and statements.


It is not that one type of brain is better than another, but each serves a purpose -- tending toward quick, firm decisions or thorough cautious ones.

I was called stupid, and I had no idea of what I was talking about.

This is the real core of the issue, and it doesn't go away. Men DO treat women as lesser beings, whether they think they do or not. People learn that condescension and intimidation gain them power, so it doesn't matter who they use it with.

It's a wonder that people who are so obsessively in love with each other when they get married can destroy each other so carelessly a few years later. (Digit, put on your blindfold... you're not allowed to read this paragraph.) (-:

 

[BigNorsk]

For the record, I would say that those are hurtful statements, they seem to be designed to diminish.

The she's not beautiful she's just my wife, might be a poor way of trying to say something else, but poorly said at best.

The other two reflect a style of fighting. They are intended to "win" an argument by hurting the other until the other retreats and lets the speaker "win". They are very much designed to hurt, that's their very reason for being.

This is quite common. The couple needs to learn how to fight fair. There's a pile of websites, books and counselors that can all help. It takes some understanding, a desire to quit, and some practice. Now, why should someone want to change what "works". Well, it fundamentally doesn't work, there is no real winner when a couple fights that way, all you get is a couple where both are resentful, hurtful, and the entire fabric of the marriage covenant is torn and in danger of complete unraveling.

Now some of it might come from habit. But someone who makes such statements in those situations is indeed aware that they hurt, just as a bully is aware that his insults hurt.

Marv

 

[c1ners]

I see it as a control issue. If the man uses hurtful words enough it'll lower the self esteem of the woman. Therefore making her think that she is unworthy of anything better. So the man has total control over her.

And by the way, the wife doesn't let the hurtful words of the husband turn into a fight. She usually just ignores them until they build up too big for her to ignore, then she explodes with her own hurtful words. But that only happens maybe once a year at most.

 

[ImaginaryVoyager]

The logic of the reaction comes from a history -- as Norsk said, people store these things in their minds.

Your example did not mention a history.

Men are able to keep a more direct thought, and women connect too many things, drawing more factors into decisions and statements......This is the real core of the issue, and it doesn't go away. Men DO treat women as lesser beings, whether they think they do or not. People learn that condescension and intimidation gain them power, so it doesn't matter who they use it with.

These are false misandristic stereotypes.

 

[krispar]

Playing a game with hubby where you read questions and the other answers.
Question: What do you do that annoys your spouse and vice versa.
Hubby: You go to fast and sometimes things don't get done all the way (i.e. dishes)
Me:You are so slow I HAVE to do things fast to get everything done.
Silence...
...
...
...
(**tears on my end**)
...
...
...
Hubby: I'm sorry, I shouldn't have said that.
Me: No you shouldn't have.
...
...
Me: I'm sorry too.

Sometimes husbands say mean things- most of the time we'll yell back. But in my case, DH always apologizes first, which is why he's the head of the household and I'm learning to slow down on dishes!