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Featured Open for debate with Muslims

Discussion in 'Debate Other Religions & Faiths' started by Al Masihi, May 18, 2018.

  1. Niblo

    Niblo Muslim Supporter

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    Isa is ‘al-Masih' - the Messiah, of course.
     
  2. dzheremi

    dzheremi Coptic Orthodox non-Egyptian

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    Yes...

    [​IMG]
     
  3. Niblo

    Niblo Muslim Supporter

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    Incorrect. There is only one Messiah in the Qur'an..and that is Jesus. He is God's Messiah..the only (true) Messiah.
     
  4. Niblo

    Niblo Muslim Supporter

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    That kid reminds me of one of my grandsons. Looks very much like him! And just as opinionated :mad:
     
  5. The7thColporteur

    The7thColporteur Well-Known Member

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    Who was 'Isa sent to according to a Qur'an?

    Here let me help you:

    a qur'an surah Al 'Imran 3:49 by Sayyid Abul A'la Mawdudi and Zafar Ishaq Ansari - al-Imran 3:49

    "... and he will be a Messenger to the Children of Israel.´ (And when he came to them he said): ´I have come to you with a sign from your Lord. I will make for you from clay the likeness of a bird and then I will breathe into it and by the leave of Allah it will become a bird. I will also heal the blind and the leper, and by the leave of Allah bring the dead to life. I will also inform you of what things you eat and what you treasure up in your houses. Surely this is a sign for you if you are true believ-ers. ..."​
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2018
  6. Niblo

    Niblo Muslim Supporter

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    Thank you, but I don't need your help. Isa was sent to the Jews as a prophet. He will be sent to the entire world as the Messiah.
     
  7. The7thColporteur

    The7thColporteur Well-Known Member

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    He "will be" future? but not yet right?

    Is Al 'Imran 3:45, in the context of Al 'Imran 3:49?
     
  8. Niblo

    Niblo Muslim Supporter

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    ‘The Messiah (l-masīḥu), son of Mary, was only a messenger (rasūlun); other messengers (l-rusulu) had come and gone before him…’ (Al-Ma’ida: 75).

    Here he is addressed as both Messiah and messenger (prophet).

    He no longer functions as a prophet, but is still the Messiah...and as God's Messiah he will return.

    This is the Qur'an's message. Not difficult to understand, surely?
     
  9. dzheremi

    dzheremi Coptic Orthodox non-Egyptian

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    It might be a good idea for our friend The7thColporteur to do a brief review of the Islamic conception of the end times/youm el qiyama (the day of resurrection), in which the Islamic messiah 'Isa plays a decisive role. An overview can be found at Wikipedia's summary of Islamic eschatology, with a subsection concerning the role of 'Isa, and of course relevant footnotes and links.

    I have not heard anything like what is being claimed in this thread about 'Isa somehow being only the Jewish messiah in the Qur'an.
     
  10. Godistruth1

    Godistruth1 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    We Muslims again don't need to accept how Christians interpret the meaning of Messiah & that solves the problem !
     
  11. dzheremi

    dzheremi Coptic Orthodox non-Egyptian

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    Who is urging you to do that in the first place?
     
  12. Godistruth1

    Godistruth1 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    You are disagreeing on the meaning of Messiah with us so that would mean you are urging us
     
  13. The7thColporteur

    The7thColporteur Well-Known Member

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    I noticed that you did not answer my last question.
     
  14. The7thColporteur

    The7thColporteur Well-Known Member

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    Is the Qur'anic 'Messiah' a Prophet, Priest and King?

    According to Muslim sources, what does 'Masih' mean?
     
  15. dzheremi

    dzheremi Coptic Orthodox non-Egyptian

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    No. I disagreed with your particular contention that the Qur'an calls 'Isa el masih as a way of meaning messenger, as though these two are synonymous terms (masih and rasul). They are not, as any speaker of Arabic would know.

    I was not making a theological argument at all.
     
  16. Godistruth1

    Godistruth1 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Not sure if I heard it right somewhere that masih means messenger and looks like I'm wrong in its actual translation. The meaning has been subject to various interpretation but I will just share 2 links so you get some idea
    Why do Muslims call Jesus “Masih”? What does it mean? What is the role of Christ in the religion of Islam? | Questions on Islam
    Meaning of Maseeh Messiah
     
  17. The7thColporteur

    The7thColporteur Well-Known Member

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    The Islamic concept of 'Messiah' [to come, future] is nothing like the actual teaching found in the Bible [OT/NT], and doesn't mean "anointed" at all - Who is the Messiah in Islam?

    Acts 10:36 KJB - The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all:)

    According to Scripture [KJB] the "Messiah" means to be the "anointed" one:

    John 1:41 KJB - He first findeth his own brother Simon, and saith unto him, We have found the Messias, which is, being interpreted, the Christ.

    John 4:25 KJB - The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.

    Psalms 2:2 KJB - The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying,

    Acts 4:26 KJB - The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ.

    Isaiah 61:1 KJB - The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;

    Luke 4:18 KJB - The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

    Acts 10:38 KJB - How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.​
     
  18. The7thColporteur

    The7thColporteur Well-Known Member

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    According to Scripture [KJB], the "Messiah", is "Prophet", "Priest" and "King" of Israel:

    "Prophet"

    Deuteronomy 18:15 KJB - The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;

    Deuteronomy 18:18 KJB - I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.

    Deuteronomy 18:19 KJB - And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.

    Matthew 13:57 KJB - And they were offended in him. But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, save in his own country, and in his own house.

    Matthew 21:11 KJB - And the multitude said, This is Jesus the prophet of Nazareth of Galilee.

    Matthew 21:46 KJB - But when they sought to lay hands on him, they feared the multitude, because they took him for a prophet.

    Mark 6:4 KJB - But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, but in his own country, and among his own kin, and in his own house.

    Luke 4:24 KJB - And he said, Verily I say unto you, No prophet is accepted in his own country.

    Luke 7:16 KJB - And there came a fear on all: and they glorified God, saying, That a great prophet is risen up among us; and, That God hath visited his people.

    Luke 13:33 KJB - Nevertheless I must walk to day, and to morrow, and the day following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem.

    Luke 24:19 KJB - And he said unto them, What things? And they said unto him, Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, which was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people:

    John 4:19 KJB - The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet.

    John 4:44 KJB - For Jesus himself testified, that a prophet hath no honour in his own country.

    John 6:14 KJB - Then those men, when they had seen the miracle that Jesus did, said, This is of a truth that prophet that should come into the world.

    John 7:40 KJB - Many of the people therefore, when they heard this saying, said, Of a truth this is the Prophet.

    John 9:17 KJB - They say unto the blind man again, What sayest thou of him, that he hath opened thine eyes? He said, He is a prophet.

    Acts 3:14 KJB - But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you;

    Acts 3:15 KJB - And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.

    Acts 3:16 KJB - And his name through faith in his name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all.

    Acts 3:17 KJB - And now, brethren, I wot that through ignorance ye did it, as did also your rulers.

    Acts 3:18 KJB - But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.

    Acts 3:19 KJB - Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

    Acts 3:20 KJB - And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:

    Acts 3:21 KJB - Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

    Acts 3:22 KJB - For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.

    Acts 3:23 KJB - And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.

    Acts 7:37 KJB - This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear.

    Acts 7:38 KJB - This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:​
     
  19. The7thColporteur

    The7thColporteur Well-Known Member

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    According to Scripture [KJB], the "Messiah", is "Prophet", "Priest" and "King" of Israel:

    "Priest"

    Daniel 9:25 KJB - Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

    ["prince in this instance, deals with priesthood, see Isaiah 43:28 KJB - Therefore I have profaned the princes of the sanctuary, and have given Jacob to the curse, and Israel to reproaches.]
    Psalms 110:4 KJB - The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.

    Zechariah 6:12 KJB - And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the LORD of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The BRANCH; and he shall grow up out of his place, and he shall build the temple of the LORD:

    Zechariah 6:13 KJB - Even he shall build the temple of the LORD; and he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.

    Hebrews 2:17 KJB - Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

    Hebrews 3:1 KJB - Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

    Hebrews 4:14 KJB - Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.

    Hebrews 4:15 KJB - For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

    Hebrews 5:1 KJB - For every high priest taken from among men is ordained for men in things pertaining to God, that he may offer both gifts and sacrifices for sins:

    Hebrews 5:5 KJB - So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.

    Hebrews 5:6 KJB - As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

    Hebrews 5:10 KJB - Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.

    Hebrews 6:20 KJB - Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

    Hebrews 7:3 KJB - Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.

    Hebrews 7:11 KJB - If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

    Hebrews 7:17 KJB - For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

    Hebrews 7:21 KJB - (For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec:)

    Hebrews 7:26 KJB - For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;

    Hebrews 8:1 KJB - Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;

    Hebrews 9:11 KJB - But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;

    Hebrews 10:21 KJB - And having an high priest over the house of God;​
     
  20. The7thColporteur

    The7thColporteur Well-Known Member

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    According to Scripture [KJB], the "Messiah", is "Prophet", "Priest" and "King" of Israel:

    "King"

    Isaiah 9:6 KJB - For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

    Isaiah 9:7 KJB - Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

    Jeremiah 23:5 KJB - Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.

    Jeremiah 23:6 KJB - In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

    Ezekiel 37:24 KJB - And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.

    Daniel 7:13 KJB - I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.

    Daniel 7:14 KJB - And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

    Daniel 9:24 KJB - Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

    Daniel 9:25 KJB - Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

    Daniel 9:26 KJB - And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

    Daniel 9:27 KJB - And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

    Micah 5:2 KJB - But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

    Zechariah 6:12 KJB - And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the LORD of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The BRANCH; and he shall grow up out of his place, and he shall build the temple of the LORD:

    Zechariah 6:13 KJB - Even he shall build the temple of the LORD; and he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.

    Zechariah 9:9 KJB - Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.

    Zechariah 9:10 KJB - And I will cut off the chariot from Ephraim, and the horse from Jerusalem, and the battle bow shall be cut off: and he shall speak peace unto the heathen: and his dominion shall be from sea even to sea, and from the river even to the ends of the earth.

    Matthew 2:2 KJB - Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.

    Matthew 19:28 KJB - And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

    Matthew 21:5 KJB - Tell ye the daughter of Sion, Behold, thy King cometh unto thee, meek, and sitting upon an ass, and a colt the foal of an ass.

    Matthew 25:31 KJB - When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

    Matthew 25:34 KJB - Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

    Matthew 25:40 KJB - And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

    Matthew 27:11 KJB - And Jesus stood before the governor: and the governor asked him, saying, Art thou the King of the Jews? And Jesus said unto him, Thou sayest.

    Matthew 27:29 KJB - And when they had platted a crown of thorns, they put it upon his head, and a reed in his right hand: and they bowed the knee before him, and mocked him, saying, Hail, King of the Jews!

    Matthew 27:37 KJB - And set up over his head his accusation written, THIS IS JESUS THE KING OF THE JEWS.

    Mark 15:2 KJB - And Pilate asked him, Art thou the King of the Jews? And he answering said unto him, Thou sayest it.

    Mark 15:9 KJB - But Pilate answered them, saying, Will ye that I release unto you the King of the Jews?

    Mark 15:12 KJB - And Pilate answered and said again unto them, What will ye then that I shall do unto him whom ye call the King of the Jews?

    Mark 15:18 KJB - And began to salute him, Hail, King of the Jews!

    Mark 15:26 KJB - And the superscription of his accusation was written over, THE KING OF THE JEWS.

    Mark 15:32 KJB - Let Christ the King of Israel descend now from the cross, that we may see and believe. And they that were crucified with him reviled him.

    Luke 14:31 KJB - Or what king, going to make war against another king, sitteth not down first, and consulteth whether he be able with ten thousand to meet him that cometh against him with twenty thousand?

    Luke 19:38 KJB - Saying, Blessed be the King that cometh in the name of the Lord: peace in heaven, and glory in the highest.

    Luke 22:30 KJB - That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

    Luke 23:2 KJB - And they began to accuse him, saying, We found this fellow perverting the nation, and forbidding to give tribute to Caesar, saying that he himself is Christ a King.

    Luke 23:38 KJB - And a superscription also was written over him in letters of Greek, and Latin, and Hebrew, THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS.

    John 1:49 KJB - Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.

    John 12:13 KJB - Took branches of palm trees, and went forth to meet him, and cried, Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord.

    John 12:15 KJB - Fear not, daughter of Sion: behold, thy King cometh, sitting on an ass's colt.

    John 18:36 KJB - Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

    John 18:37 KJB - Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

    John 18:39 KJB - But ye have a custom, that I should release unto you one at the passover: will ye therefore that I release unto you the King of the Jews?

    John 19:3 KJB - And said, Hail, King of the Jews! and they smote him with their hands.

    John 19:14 KJB - And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King!

    John 19:19 KJB - And Pilate wrote a title, and put it on the cross. And the writing was, JESUS OF NAZARETH THE KING OF THE JEWS.

    Acts 17:7 KJB - Whom Jason hath received: and these all do contrary to the decrees of Caesar, saying that there is another king, one Jesus.

    Acts 2:30 KJB - Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;

    Acts 3:15 KJB - And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.

    Hebrews 4:16 KJB - Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

    Revelation 17:14 KJB - These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

    Revelation 19:16 KJB - And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.​
     
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