Open Challenge - Explain why Israel is important from the NT

[keras]

The Redemption of the Nazarenes, true Christian people:

Jeremiah 30:23-24 See what a scorching wind has gone out from the Lord, a sweeping whirlwind, coming down onto the heads of the wicked. The Lord’s anger will not be turned aside, it will accomplish His purposes.
In days to come, you will understand. Deuteronomy 29:4, Isaiah 35:5, Isaiah 48:6-8

Jeremiah 31:1-40At that time, I shall be the God of all the families of Israel and they will be My people, a people that have escaped the sword and found favour in the wilderness. From afar God will appear to His people. 2 Thess. 1:10. He loves and cares for them and will build them up again, for a Day will come when the watchmen cry out on the hills of Ephraim: Come, let us go up Zion, unto the Lord our God. Once again, they will be happy and the Land will be fruitful. They will worship God in Jerusalem. Ezekiel 20:34-36

The Lord says: be joyful for Jacob’s sake, sing praises and say- God has saved His people, He has preserved a remnant of Israel. See how He brings them from all parts of the earth, among them the blind and the lame, women and children. A vast company, they come with weeping and prayer, God will comfort and escort them. He will lead them by streams of water, on smooth paths, for He is the Father to Israel and Ephraim is His eldest son. Psalms 107:1-40, Isaiah 62:10-12
Listen to the Word of the Lord, you nations, make it known to people far away. He who scattered Israel, will gather them again and will watch over them as a shepherd watches over his flock. For God has redeemed Jacob [the 12 tribes] and delivered them from their enemies. His righteous people will come with great joy into a Land of plenty and peace. Ezekiel 36:8-12, Amos 9:14-15,

Rachel weeps for her children. [Rachel is the mother of Jacob/Israel] Shed no more tears, for they will leave the nations and return to their own Land. God has disciplined Ephraim, like an unruly bull calf. After Ephraim strayed, he repented and now in shame and remorse; reproaches himself for the sins of his youth. God says: Ephraim is still My dear son, in whom I delight and I still remember him and have compassion for him. Hosea 11:8-9 Set up signs to mark your way, the path for your return. Come back virgin Israel to your towns. How long will you wander, My wayward child? Deut. 4:26, Isaiah 63:17-19, Ezekiel 4:4-6, John 7:35
This will happen: a woman will protect a man. Judges 5:7 – a precedent?

The Lord says: When I bring My people back from exile, from all parts of the world,theywill live in all the Land and be satisfied. Once more will these words be heard in the Land; God bless you, the home of righteousness, the holy mountain. Ezekiel 39:27

The days are coming, says the Lord, when I will plant Israel and Judah then increase their people and livestock. In the past My intent was to uproot and inflict disaster upon them, now I shall watch over them, to build and plant. Micah 7:11-12, Ezekiel 36:8
It will no longer be said that children will suffer for their parents sins. Only those who sin will be punished for it. Ezekiel 18:20

The days are coming when I shall establish a new covenant with Israel and Judah. It will not be like the one that I made with their forefathers, when I took them out of Egypt, that covenant they broke, though I was patient with them. This will be the new Covenant that I will make with the whole House of Israel, in the latter days; I shall set My Law within them, in their hearts, all of them will know and obey Me. I will forgive and forget their wrongdoing. Ezekiel 37:26, Hebrews 8:6-12

The Lord says: As the sun and stars are set in their courses, as the wind and the sea roars- only if this fixed order changes, only then: could Israel ever cease to be a nation before Me. Micah 7:19-20, Isaiah 14:1-2, Hosea 2:18-23

The days are coming when Jerusalem will be rebuilt in My honour. It will be holy to Me, never again to be demolished. Isaiah 58:12, Micah 7:11, Jeremiah 30:18 Ref: REB. Verses abridged.



‘A scorching wind, a sweeping whirlwind that will destroy the wicked’ - This is the Lord’s Day of vengeance and wrath, the next prophesied event, the sixth seal of Revelation 6:12-17 and Isaiah 30:26a – a massive sunstrike that will affect all the world. Malachi 4:1-3, 2 Peter 3:7

‘God will save His people. At that time…a people will escape the Sword’ – The Lord’s righteous people will be protected on that Day. Isaiah 30:26b, Joel 2:32, Psalm 23:4

‘The Redemption of the Nazarenes’– In Jer.31:6, the word translated ‘watchmen’ is ‘natsar’ meaning: to obey, also to preserve and protect. [ref: Strongs 5341] Another connotation is ‘nazar’. meaning to set apart, to consecrate and dedicate. [ref: Strongs 5144] It is the root word for Nazareth and disciples of Jesus were and still can be, known as Nazarenes. Acts 24:5 So it will be all the righteous believers who will gather and go to live in the Promised Land. Col. 1:9-20

‘He who scattered Israel, will gather them again. His righteous people, will leave the nations and come, with great joy into a Land of plenty and peace. They will worship their God in Jerusalem’. – This is the great promise of the redemption of all God’s people, that is; all true believing Christians, who will live in the new country of Beulah, Isaiah 62:1-5, in peace and prosperity. They will build the 3rd Temple and worship God as in ancient days. Zechariah 6:15, Ezekiel 40 to 48. God made unconditional promises to the Patriarchs and their descendants remain mostly scattered around the world. Amos 9:9, Ezekiel 34:5+11-16. They are now ‘a vast company’, who nowconstitute a high proportion of the population in the Western/Christian nations. Their right to ownership of the holy Land will be proven when the title deed in Jeremiah 32:14 is found. But we are told very clearly in the New Testament, that;…those with true faith will share the Blessings promised to Abraham. Galatians 3:6-9, Isaiah 56:1-8, John 10:16

‘It will no longer be said: the children will suffer for their parents sins’. - The sins of the forefathers are paid for by the Israelite’s long exile. Isaiah 27:7-9, Isaiah 40:1-2

‘the Holy mountain’ – the Temple mount. The 3rd Temple will be built and the ordinances reinstated, until the Return of Jesus. Ezekiel ch.40-48, Zechariah 8:9

The great end times story:
This prophecy from the book of the prophet Jeremiah, tells the story of how the Lord will punish the unrighteous by a fire judgement, then how His righteous people will go to live in all of the holy Land. All who by faith, that believe in Jesus will receive salvation. John 3:16-18
He will make a new covenant with them, in order for His people: Nazarene Israelites, including those grafted in, to fulfil their destiny to be “a light to the nations”, and to spread the gospel of the coming Kingdom of God. This will be carried out by the 144,000 selected in Jerusalem. Revelation 14:1-7 The precedent to this is in Luke 10:1-20. Isaiah 49:6, Isaiah 66:19

God’s people will live in peace and security, in the new country of Beulah, Isaiah 62:1-5, in all of that area promised to Abraham so long ago. Genesis 15:18, Ezekiel 34:24-31, Joel 2:23-27
When they are settled and prosperous, the Lord will motivate a Northern confederation to come and attack Beulah, Ezekiel 38:8, Ezekiel 39:1-2. They will be totally wiped out by the Lord, Ezekiel 38:21-22, Ezekiel 39:3-5, Joel 2:20. This is in order to display His glory and power to all the nations. Ezekiel 38:23, Ezekiel 39:21

Meanwhile, the rest of the world will slowly recover from the terrible fires and earthquakes of the Day of the Lord’s wrath and they will form a One World Government, initially controlled by ten Presidents, but another will rise to take dictatorial powers. He will make a seven year peace treaty with Beulah, that not all the people agree with. Daniel 9:27, Daniel 11:32 This marks the commencement of the final seven years of this age. At the middle of this time, the World Dictator comes to Jerusalem and forcibly places his image in the Temple. Daniel 11:31 This triggers the 3½ year Great Tribulation, the trumpet and bowl judgements. Those Beulahites who refused any dealings with the ‘beast’, as in Revelation 13:1-5, are taken to a place of safety. Revelation 12:14 1260 days later, will come the culmination of this age – the physical Return of Jesus, Zechariah 14:6-11, Rev. 19:11-21. He will destroy the armies mustered for battle in Armageddon. Revelation 16:16, Revelation 19:19-21, Zechariah 14:3-5 Then, He will reign for 1000 years. Great will be that time!

 

[toLiJC]

Hi all,

This was discussed in another thread, however it makes much more sense to raise it as its own separate thread.My understanding at the moment is that since Jesus has fulfilled the old covenant through his blood on the Cross and ushered in a new covenant, the physical land, temple, and being "Jewish" are no longer important. I know many Bible verses which appear to state this to be the case and at the moment it seems right to me. I would hate for Jesus to brand me a "false teacher" though - hence my challenge below.

My challenge to you is this: what evidence can you provide from the NT stating that the physical land of Israel, the temple, and the "Jewish race" is important today, and since the Resurrection?

according to the Scripture, the true "israel" is the holy/righteous people, and the true "judah" is the true spiritual servants that work for the overall salvation in God and Jesus, but this concerns not just people located in a certain physical territory

Galatians 6:14-16 "God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God."

Blessings

 

[Luke17:37]

... so what's the difference? The Church is Israel.

I detest replacement theology.

 

[ebedmelech]

I understand perfectly well the wild olive tree and the natural olive tree. I know that all who are descended from Israel are not Israel. There's always a remnant saved.

Then why don't you understand the "Israel of God" includes Gentiles. The only Israel that matters are those who follow God's prophecy of Isaiah 49 where Christ is called "My Servant Israel". Try reading that.

However, these truths do not negate the future fulfillment of God's promises to Israel in regards the salvation of many (Ezekiel 36, Ezekiel 37, Hosea 5:14 - 6:3) and in regards to the land (that its borders should be from the wadi of Egypt to the Euphrates River, Genesis 15:18, Isaiah 27:12).

Then I would encourage you to read those more carefully because the Old Covenant is abolished because Israel broke the Covenant. God is not honoring two covenants. Hebrews 9!

God will bring revival to the physical descendants of Israel - 1/3 will turn to God, 2/3 will die (Zechariah 13:8-9). Right now, of known Israel, supposedly only about 1% are Christians. I'm looking forward to the great increase.

If you only understood the passage! Did not Jesus quote it in Matthew 26:41? So you have something out of kilter.

Isaiah 30:19
19 For a people shall dwell in Zion, in Jerusalem; you shall weep no more. He will surely be gracious to you at the sound of your cry. As soon as he hears it, he answers you.

Try this passage and you may understand...Hebrews 12:18-24

 

[ebedmelech]

That is not what it days. A literal translation of the individual Greek words makes it very plain. "Not for all the ones out of-Israel these Israel."

So it actually says that "Not all the ones out of Israel are Israel." That is, that just being a physical descendant of the ancient nation of Israel is not enough to make someone a true Israelite. Faith is required, as well as physical descent. Or in other words, the true Israel is a subset of the physical descendents of the ancient nation of Israel.

But this does not even imply that the true Israel is a different group from the physical descendants of the ancient nation of Israel.

The subject here is made exceedingly clear by verses 3-5 of the same chapter where we read: "my brethren, my countrymen according to the flesh, who are Israelites, to whom pertain the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the service of God, and the promises; of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came."

It becomes very plain if you simply give up your doctrinal position and pay attention to the actual words used by the Holy Spirit.

You're quote wrong Biblewriter. A clear rendering would be "not everyone of Israel are part of Israel".

Now...some clear translations

Young's Literal Translation:
6 And it is not possible that the word of God hath failed; for not all who [are] of Israel are these Israel;

Complete Jewish Bible:
6 But the present condition of Isra’el does not mean that the Word of God has failed. For not everyone from Isra’el is truly part of Isra’el;

You bend the text in your dispensational theology. When Paul makes the statement "according to the flesh", he makes it clear that hie concern is for them to believe on Christ because it is through them Christ came.

You've missed the point entirely! Christ even grieved over this in Matthew 23:37-39.

 

[ebedmelech]

I detest replacement theology.

Me too. None one replaced anyone. Christ made both Jews and Gentiles ONE...Ephesians 2:14.

This "replacement theology" attack simply shows how some folks really don't read what scripture says.

 

[Endtime Survivors]

Why would God create a distinction at all? Simply for His glory. In bringing the Israelites back to the land (Isaiah 27:13) and saving them (Ezekiel 37), God gets the glory. They were formerly scattered and removed from the land. Most of their ancestors rejected the Lord as their king. The fact that He is a faithful promise keeper to them brings God glory. The good He does for the Israelites is to God's praise, not theirs. It has always been this way (Deuteronomy 9:4-6).

You say the distinction between "Israelite Christians" and gentile Christians is meant to bring glory to God, but that still doesn't explain how the division is meant to glorify God. The Jews rejected their messiah. They still reject him today. If there is a Jew who accepts Jesus, then what's the point in holding onto the name of "Jew"? Why make a distinction between two different kinds of Christians? I don't see how that glorifies God, especially when retaining the "Jewish" title only serves to create confusion since it is understood that Jews reject Jesus as the messiah.

You say the division is meant to bring glory to God because these people will get a special piece of land but Jesus made it clear that God was doing something new where neither temples nor land would matter to him anymore. But even still, The Jews have had their own land for several decades now and what have they done with it? Are you suggesting all that mess over in the middle east is meant to glorify Jesus? No way. The Jews had their chance and they blew it. They killed their own messiah and had the nerve to claim they were doing so in the name of God.

The restoration of Israel is being done on a spiritual level now, where anyone with the faith of Abraham becomes a child of Abraham.

 

[Hazrus]

Totally agree re. Replacement Theology. There is no replacement. I hadn't even heard of "replacement theology" until very recently.

Israel is the Church. This includes all those who believe in Jesus, Jews or non-Jews. Is there a term for this? "Inclusive Theology" perhaps?

 

[keras]

"Inclusive Theology" perhaps?

I like it! A very suitable term that fits people from every tribe, nation, race and language. Revelation 5:9-10
Note that those people become kings and priests on earth. It really isn't hard to ascertain just where on earth they will be.

 

[Biblewriter]

You're quote wrong Biblewriter. A clear rendering would be "not everyone of Israel are part of Israel".

Now...some clear translations

Young's Literal Translation:
6 And it is not possible that the word of God hath failed; for not all who [are] of Israel are these Israel;

Complete Jewish Bible:
6 But the present condition of Isra’el does not mean that the Word of God has failed. For not everyone from Isra’el is truly part of Isra’el;

You bend the text in your dispensational theology. When Paul makes the statement "according to the flesh", he makes it clear that hie concern is for them to believe on Christ because it is through them Christ came.

You've missed the point entirely! Christ even grieved over this in Matthew 23:37-39.

How could I be incorrect in stating the literal translations of the individual Greek words, in the order in which they were given? The translations you have quoted state exactly the point I was making. You only imagine I must "miss the point" because yo think a Dispensationalist could not even possibly understand the scriptures.

My point was that the claim that this scripture means that the true Israel is something different from the physical Israel is simply false. What this scripture says is that the true Israel is a subset of the physical Israel, not a different group of people.

And the subject here is indeed Paul's "countrymen according to the flesh, who are Israelites." This unquestionably means the physical descendants of the ancient nation of Israel. And any attempt to deny this is simply foolish. And verse 4 explicitly says that, even at that time, long after they had rejected their Messiah at the cross, "the promises" still applied to that physical group. Verse 6 does not change the subject to a different group of people, but rather simply limits the subject to a subset of the entire physical group.

 

[Luke17:37]

You say the distinction between "Israelite Christians" and gentile Christians is meant to bring glory to God, but that still doesn't explain how the division is meant to glorify God. The Jews rejected their messiah. They still reject him today. If there is a Jew who accepts Jesus, then what's the point in holding onto the name of "Jew"? Why make a distinction between two different kinds of Christians? I don't see how that glorifies God, especially when retaining the "Jewish" title only serves to create confusion since it is understood that Jews reject Jesus as the messiah.

You say the division is meant to bring glory to God because these people will get a special piece of land but Jesus made it clear that God was doing something new where neither temples nor land would matter to him anymore. But even still, The Jews have had their own land for several decades now and what have they done with it? Are you suggesting all that mess over in the middle east is meant to glorify Jesus? No way. The Jews had their chance and they blew it. They killed their own messiah and had the nerve to claim they were doing so in the name of God.

The restoration of Israel is being done on a spiritual level now, where anyone with the faith of Abraham becomes a child of Abraham.

Your attitude against Jews sounds distinctly anti-Semitic and your grasp of the promises to Israel is incomplete. God is never finished with the Jewish people--they are just mostly blinded presently, which is precisely what He told us.

I'm not going to discuss this with you anymore. I'm out of this thread.

 

[random person]

I detest replacement theology.

the old creation - isaiah 51:15-16; jeremiah 31:35-36 (matthew 5:17-18)

the new creation - jeremiah 31:31-34; isaiah 65:15-24; galatians 6:15-16

the new covenant would not be like the one made through moses.

judaism isnt the faith found in the torah. instead it studies hundreds of volumes of the talmud full of human traditions and human understanding. it is as remote from the torah as is the quran. it is a dead religion that is incapable of fulfilling its dead purposes. the jews are no longer exclusively god's chosen. and to remain chosen they must accept christ or be removed from the olive tree.

 

[keras]

A very interesting Bible passage is in Jeremiah 12:14-16:
The Lord is going to remove all those evil neighbours who have taken over parts of the holy Land. Also He will remove Judah, the Jewish people as well. This will happen on the Lord's Day of wrath, when all the holy Land will be cleared and cleansed, as prophesied many times in the Bible. Jeremiah 10:18
But the Lord says: He will have pity on them, the Jews, and bring them back, IF they learn the ways of My people. Who are the Lord's people now? We know from the New Testament, it is all who believe in God and accept the atoning sacrifice of Jesus. Christians!

 

[Endtime Survivors]

Hi Luke17:37. It looks like you're feeling frustrated on this topic. That was not my intention, though I recognize that I was quite hard in my previous post. I don't want you to leave this topic because of that. And you are right that my understanding of God's promises is incomplete. I would very much like to get a better understanding of any issue related to God, but I also feel like I need to stand by my own convictions despite the areas I do not understand. I don't think that equates to an unwillingness to learn or change, anymore than you would admit to such unwillingness. I'd like to think we're both willing in that area, but that we just need to find the correct way to communicate our sincerity to one another.

I was recently inspired by the "Practical eschatology: what do I need to know" thread where some people were talking about being united on important issues despite disagreements. I feel we could try something like that here, too. I'm not quite sure how that will work in practical terms regarding this issue, but at least I feel confident in saying I appreciate your efforts to promote faith in Jesus. Keep up the good work.

 

[ebedmelech]

How could I be incorrect in stating the literal translations of the individual Greek words, in the order in which they were given? The translations you have quoted state exactly the point I was making. You only imagine I must "miss the point" because yo think a Dispensationalist could not even possibly understand the scriptures.

Interesting...you say they make the point when they don't. It's one thing to translate the same BUT another thing when it comes to the understanding of it.

My point was that the claim that this scripture means that the true Israel is something different from the physical Israel is simply false. What this scripture says is that the true Israel is a subset of the physical Israel, not a different group of people.

What's false is your *idea* that physical Israel is still in play when the Old Covenant is abolished in Christ who presented a New Covenant that includes everyone. Physical Israel is simply a nation. The Israel of God are all who will make the HEAVENLY JERUSALEM!

And the subject here is indeed Paul's "countrymen according to the flesh, who are Israelites." This unquestionably means the physical descendants of the ancient nation of Israel. And any attempt to deny this is simply foolish. And verse 4 explicitly says that, even at that time, long after they had rejected their Messiah at the cross, "the promises" still applied to that physical group. Verse 6 does not change the subject to a different group of people, but rather simply limits the subject to a subset of the entire physical group.

No. The plain meaning is that God made a covenant and promised the Messiah through them. The foolishness is to read Romans 9 just as Paul wrote it...and can your theology because it departs from Paul's very point.


BTW...who is the "Israel of God" Paul refers to in Galatians 6:16

 

[stephen583]

I'm afraid any assessment of End Time Bible prophecy that doesn't take into account the spiritual state of the modern day nation of Israel is going to be incomplete. Clearly many of the End Time prophecies of Jeremiah, Isaiah, Ezekiel and Daniel pertain specifically to the restored nation of Israel and Palestine of the Middle East. Even the Olivet Discourse says the Abomination of Desolation (spoken of by the prophet Daniel) will invade Judea (called the West Bank nowadays), Matthew 24. The Battle of Armageddon will be fought on the plains of Har Meggido. Jerusalem will be trodden under foot by the Gentiles for 42 months, ect, ect, ect.

So I think it's a bit of "revisionism" to claim End Time events will not be centered on Jerusalem, Israel and the Middle East in particular. The prophecies of the Bible say different. Both the Old and the New Testament.

That having been said, modern day Israel is in some pretty deep spiritual trouble, particularly when it comes to their historical persecution of Christians. Since 1948 hundreds of thousands of Arab Christians have been robbed of their land and property, and forced to live in the squalor of the Gaza ghetto. Christian Churches like the Baptist Church of Jerusalem have been burned to the ground and vandalized. While Arab Palestine has been systematically reduced to a mere 12 percent of it's original mandate, and the remaining territory which exists only as isolated pockets cut off by illegal Israeli settlements and their connecting roads, can in no way shape of form function as a viable nation-state.

Israel still has it's notorious "anti-missionary" law that makes it illegal for Christians to hand out material to Jews and illegal for Jews to accept Christian publications. The penalty for breaking the "anti-missionary" law is five years imprisonment and a two thousand dollar fine. In 2016 legislation has been proposed to stiffen the penalty for any Christian distributing material to a juvenile. The Jerusalem Post Newspaper has criticized Israeli citizens for spitting on Christians in the streets of Jerusalem.

Here are some other things you may be unaware of regarding modern day Israel. Most shops and night clubs in Israel no longer observe the Sabbath. Tel Aviv is a world famous party city destination. 70 percent of Israelis no longer practice traditional Judaism. Many Israelis routinely travel to Cypress for weddings so they don't have to be married by a rabbi. It's no big secret, the modern day Apartheid State of Israel is largely a secular nation. The facts are right there to be read by anyone on Wikipedia.

Israel, through it's own greed and arrogance is literally "paving the road to Hell the Fourth Horseman of the Apocalypse is going to ride in on". Israel has become the sixth largest arms exporter in the world, not bad for a country the size of New Jersey (Jane's Defense Weekly). In the most recent scandal, the Chinese J-10 Shark fighter planes sold to IRAN contain Israeli avionic components (as reported by Israeli newspapers). Israel has also come under recent criticism from Washington for selling U.S. drone technology to China.

Israel is also negotiating with Russia to take over security for the Israeli Leviathan Natural Gas Pipeline to Turkey across the Mediterranean Sea, as well as selling the Russians a 30 percent interest in the pipeline for ten billion dollars. This will ensure Vladimir Putin and Russia's "stranglehold" of natural gas supplies to Western Europe.

This is just the "short list" of the moral, political and religious problems confronting the modern day state of Israel.


"Where so ever the carcass is, there shall the eagles be gathered together"

 

[random person]

har megiddo is an oxymoron.

har means mountain or hill.

we preterists believe its a symbol for jerusalem not an accurate locale.

there is not a single verse or passage in the bible that supports the idea that israel will be regathered in a state of rebellion or disbelief.

will everyone open their bibles and compare matthew 24:32 to luke 21:29!!!!!

please stop this craziness and abuse of the words of christ.

were all the nations (all the trees) of the world founded in 1948 according to luke 21:29?????

 

[Biblewriter]

I'm afraid any assessment of End Time Bible prophecy that doesn't take into account the spiritual state of the modern day nation of Israel is going to be incomplete. Clearly many of the End Time prophecies of Jeremiah, Isaiah, Ezekiel and Daniel pertain specifically to the restored nation of Israel and Palestine of the Middle East. Even the Olivet Discourse says the Abomination of Desolation (spoken of by the prophet Daniel) will invade Judea (called the West Bank nowadays), Matthew 24. The Battle of Armageddon will be fought on the plains of Har Meggido. Jerusalem will be trodden under foot by the Gentiles for 42 months, ect, ect, ect.

So I think it's a bit of "revisionism" to claim End Time events will not be centered on Jerusalem, Israel and the Middle East in particular. The prophecies of the Bible say different. Both the Old and the New Testament.

That having been said, modern day Israel is in some pretty deep spiritual trouble, particularly when it comes to their historical persecution of Christians. Since 1948 hundreds of thousands of Arab Christians have been robbed of their land and property, and forced to live in the squalor of the Gaza ghetto. Christian Churches like the Baptist Church of Jerusalem have been burned to the ground and vandalized. While Arab Palestine has been systematically reduced to a mere 12 percent of it's original mandate, and the remaining territory which exists only as isolated pockets cut off by illegal Israeli settlements and their connecting roads, can in no way shape of form function as a viable nation-state.

Israel still has it's notorious "anti-missionary" law that makes it illegal for Christians to hand out material to Jews and illegal for Jews to accept Christian publications. The penalty for breaking the "anti-missionary" law is five years imprisonment and a two thousand dollar fine. In 2016 legislation has been proposed to stiffen the penalty for any Christian distributing material to a juvenile. The Jerusalem Post Newspaper has criticized Israeli citizens for spitting on Christians in the streets of Jerusalem.

Here are some other things you may be unaware of regarding modern day Israel. Most shops and night clubs in Israel no longer observe the Sabbath. Tel Aviv is a world famous party city destination. 70 percent of Israelis no longer practice traditional Judaism. Many Israelis routinely travel to Cypress for weddings so they don't have to be married by a rabbi. It's no big secret, the modern day Apartheid State of Israel is largely a secular nation. The facts are right there to be read by anyone on Wikipedia.

Israel, through it's own greed and arrogance is literally "paving the road to Hell the Fourth Horseman of the Apocalypse is going to ride in on". Israel has become the sixth largest arms exporter in the world, not bad for a country the size of New Jersey (Jane's Defense Weekly). In the most recent scandal, the Chinese J-10 Shark fighter planes sold to IRAN contain Israeli avionic components (as reported by Israeli newspapers). Israel has also come under recent criticism from Washington for selling U.S. drone technology to China.

Israel is also negotiating with Russia to take over security for the Israeli Leviathan Natural Gas Pipeline to Turkey across the Mediterranean Sea, as well as selling the Russians a 30 percent interest in the pipeline for ten billion dollars. This will ensure Vladimir Putin and Russia's "stranglehold" of natural gas supplies to Western Europe.

This is just the "short list" of the moral, political and religious problems confronting the modern day state of Israel.


"Where so ever the carcass is, there shall the eagles be gathered together"

The present moral state of the majority of modern Jews is exactly the one described in the prophecies about Daniel's seventieth week. In fact, purpose of the seventieth week is to finally bring them to repentance. But sadly, we are plainly told that only a remnant of them will ever actually repent. The rest will be destroyed.

 

[Biblewriter]

there is not a single verse or passage in the bible that supports the idea that israel will be regathered in a state of rebellion or disbelief.

Actually, even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while. So in this case, you are entirely correct. There is indeed "not a single verse or passage in the bible that supports the idea that Israel will be regathered in a state of rebellion or disbelief."

The regathering spoken of in the prophecies will be after Messiah has come, and Ezekiel 20:33-38 explicitly says that as they return the rebels among them will be purged out, so, even though these rebels will be brought out of the country where they dwell, they shall not enter the land of Israel. To even try to pretend that this has ever happened is nothing short of nonsense.

Since the Jews had been expelled from the land for over one and a half thousand years, students of Bible prophecy have long been well aware that they would return. (The earliest explicit discussion of this return that I personally know about was published by William Lowth, who was born in 1661.) But the present return "in a state of both rebellion and disbelief" was indeed never prophesied, as such.

Although not even one prophecy speaks of their being "regathered in a state of rebellion or disbelief," a large number of passages clearly show them in the land "in a state of rebellion and disbelief" during the seventieth week.

But this discussion hes veered off course. The subject is supposed to be New Testament comments about a future program for Israel. And I noticed that, although I posted (in this thread) a number of New Testament passages about this, no one seems to have even noticed them.

 

[keras]

there is not a single verse or passage in the bible that supports the idea that israel will be regathered in a state of rebellion or disbelief.

This assertion simply denies the facts on the ground.
A part of the Israelites, the two tribes of Judah and Benjamin, has gone back to a part of the holy Land. They are in serious rebellion to God and denial of Jesus. Their return fulfills the prophecy of Jesus, of the budding of the fig tree. Matthew 24:32