[open] Acts 15 - Is it necessary to keep the law of Moses?

Sephania

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I wrote this on another thread which was posted to refute how some say that the Sabbath has changed ( it was closed and not reopened yet) and think since it has to do exactly with Acts 15 I will repost it here.

Religion, Sex And Food!


Yes, you can have a book titled that with the sub-title:

~And Jesus Said, Salvation is of the Jews, we know what we worship, you don't so here is your starting manual:

'Walking with the true G-d 101 - a Primer for Heathens'

Many today don't understand this because they were raised up in a 'Christian nation'. I think Americans have the most trouble with this. But back then all those in the world, except the Jews, had only heathen gods and were embroiled in what was handed down by their ancestors, and where they lived the religious buildings/temples were the center of the communities.

Those first four (four stands for the world and I see this as giving them four things to start helping them be not of the world) were dealing with everyday life.

Part of everyday life then (and now even) revolved around fleshly things, this is the 'surface start' in life in the truth, and then it goes deeper into the spiritual. But to start you must address the outside, the flesh and that is what these four things did.

First thing addressed has to do with , again, what their former life centered around, Religion.



1. Abstain from things polluted by idols.
This can mean many things, it meant to: stay out of the heathen temples, not participate in any of the 'holy days' celebrated to these idols/other gods, not to have sex in relationship to these idols, not to sacrifice to idols, not to eat offerings or sacrifices made to idols. It covers a lot actually.


2. Abstain from Fornication
The number two thing in the heathen life after religion was SEX. Sex was much involved in the 'holy days' of the false gods, the sacrifices and much 'worship' in the temples of the heathen. Even not in relationship to the gods, they were involved in inappropriate behavior with animals, sex with children, homosexuality, and general promiscuity. Again, a big part of everyday life that needed to be addressed immediately.


3. Abstain from what is strangled.
What does that mean exactly? What does it have to do with? FOOD. Most gentiles don't know, they didn’t then but more so then than today. In a Kosher lifestyle, the word 'treif' is used; it means something we can't eat. It does not mean that it is an unclean animal ( such as a pig) but rather a clean one that G-d said we could eat, but that was killed in the wrong manner. The heathens were worshipping false gods who all had their foundation in the fallen one. Therefore we know he has no respect for life, in fact he brings death, because he brings sin, HaSatan.

A Trief animal can be clean or unclean, but for G-ds way of thinking and for food we will talk about clean. So you can have a trief turkey, or chicken or lamb, or goat, cow, etc ( fish don't fit into this category). Firstly it can't have died of itself ( disease), but most important it needs to be slaughtered in a G-dly manner. The L-RD wrote the butchering book on how to do this. Animals are his creations and he made them for our pleasure, they have breath and blood of life in them just like we do. It is life, and as such should be honored in a manner of speaking. Not over the top like those in PETA, but the way G-d commanded them to be treated, even in death. They are to be cut and bled out. The Blood is to be poured out on the ground and buried. All the blood is to be removed, as well as certain areas of fat on the larger animals. It is not to be torn in any way, that is what treif means, to tear, in other words, you are not to eat animals not properly slaughtered. Which ties in with the next command.


4.Abstain from blood
This can mean in relationship to eating as we see in number 3 or to other things. ‘Do not eat blood’ This stems all the way back to when the L-RD gave animals to man to eat, after the flood. Genesis 9:4 “But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat’. It can’t be any clearer than that, but how many observe this today? The L-RD reiterated this almost a thousand years later in the wilderness:
It shall be a perpetual statue for your generations throughout all your dwellings, that ye eat neither fat nor blood.
’


Now some say that the Torah of Moshe is gone, we have a new torah, but this is very clear that this is for all generations, everywhere you live (not just a commandment tied to the land of Israel) so it is still valid today.


Getting more specific in Leviticus 7:26 we see the L-RD says:

“ Moreover you shall eat no manner of blood, whither it be of fowl or of beast, in any of your dwellings.”

What will happen if you do?

Whatsoever should it be that eats any manner of blood, even that soul shall be cut off from his people.


Again, in Leviticus 17, (we see that the L-RD is very adamant about this) he refines it even more, so there is no mis-understanding.

And whatsoever man there be of the house of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn among you, that eats any manner of blood; I will even set my face against that soul that eats blood, and will cut him off from among his people. 11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that makes an atonement for the soul. 12 Therefore I said unto the children of Israel, No soul of you shall eat blood, neither shall any stranger that sojourns among you eat blood.
There are more scriptures reiterating this but I think you get the picture.

Now that addresses the eating part, but I think it goes deeper than that. Blood ties in with something besides eating, that of cutting oneself ( Lev 19:28, 21:5, Kings 18 ) pagan rituals using blood, and also Niddah, family purity which ties in the blood with number 2, sex.

As you can see these four things entail many commandments, but they encompass everyday life that needed to be addressed at once, Religion, Sex and Food, and the rest of Torah could be learned each week as they sat in synagogue and heard the word of G-d read.

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visionary

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visionary said:
I am still not clear on your definition of the law of Moses.. vs .. law of God. Could you give OT chapter and verses of Law of Moses that are not the Law of God?
I just want to repeat myself... because without a clear definition from you, we will think that you are saying the law of God is the law of Moses and they are both done away with.
 
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Henaynei

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the Law of G-d IS the Law He gave Moses.... the Law of Moses IS the Law G-d gave Him.....no difference :) = TORAH!!
(and those instructions that help us obey that Law :D)

b'Shalom
Henaynei
 
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stone

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shimshon said:
I pray Abba opens up your eyes to it.

Father has opened my eyes to many false teachings. Some i have never seen anyone speak of or correct here on christian forums. Sometimes i think i should not disturb traditions, but when i see that they are based on lies, i think that maybe it's in the peoples best interest to show them the truth, and let them make their own decisions based on scripture.

Here's an example:


Matthew 1:18-25 18 Now the birth of J-sus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost. 19 Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privily. 20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the L-rd appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived F2 in her is of the Holy Ghost. 21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name J-SUS: F3 for he shall save his people from their sins. 22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the L-rd by the prophet, saying, 23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, G-d with us. 24 Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the L-rd had bidden him, and took unto him his wife: 25 And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name J-SUS.
 
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Henaynei

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I bought a car kit - it was a beautiful vehicle, it's science and engineering were first class, truly beyond anything else out there - it came with clear and perfect instructions..... and I built it.... what a beauty, except....

it was so far ahead of it's time that the system of propulsion had not been produced, there were numerous things that had not fallen into place to provide the right confluence of resources and circumstances to allow for it's production, ... yet

but the reputation of the manufacturer was beyond reproach so even though neither I nor any I had heard of understood the issues either behind this wonderful propulsion nor which delayed it's production still many of the kits were selling and many people were building them, in spite of the jeering and catcalls from their neighbor for buying a car that had to be pushed, - and each worked hard to keep the vehicle in perfect working order according to the instructions that came with it..... all waiting for the day that the propulsion system would finally be produced.....

Then one day it happened - finally the manufacturer said that the system had been produced and was being shipped, all the folks with completed cars had to do was sign for it when it arrived and install it as per the instructions that came with it....

Some did exactly that.... and the vehicle ran to perfection - but by now the exterior of the vehicle looked outdated to many, even though the materials showed no sign of age or decay, and they insisted that it was an antique, interesting to look at but useless without modification and certainly not "up with the times"...... so many did modify it, the propulsion system, the exterior, even some of the mechanics inside....

funny thing was - those that were modified found that their gas mileage was horrible, that the whole thing often malfunctioned and the external modifications continuously needed upgrading and modification themselves as the materials and design never seemed to endure for very long......

but those who had kept to the manufacturer's instructions faithfully found that not only did the propulsion system save them..... much money but that the entire vehicle ran smoothly and never needed more than the occasional oil change and tires inflated....

eventually those who had modified their vehicle cast them aside saying they were outmoded and faulty to start with.... they got more "modern" vehicles that were "easier," but these required expensive routine maintenance and only lasted a few years before parts had to be replaced and gradually the parts became unavailable or "
used"

But the folks with the original kit vehicles found that theirs continued to be serviceable and reliable not only for them but even for their children and their children's children......

I still have my kit car, I drive it every day and it runs like a dream!..... and you know what...... it seems that it may be coming back in style for many too .....

I've spent many years studying the owner's manual and still haven't mastered all that it covers, but every timne I call the manufacturer he tells me just what to do and it always works!

Shabbat Shalom!
 
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stone

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Henaynei said:
I bought a car kit - it was a beautiful vehicle, it's science and engineering were first class, truly beyond anything else out there - it came with clear and perfect instructions..... and I built it.... what a beauty, except....

it was so far ahead of it's time that the system of propulsion had not been produced, there were numerous things that had not fallen into place to provide the right confluence of resources and circumstances to allow for it's production, ... yet

but the reputation of the manufacturer was beyond reproach so even though neither I nor any I had heard of understood the issues either behind this wonderful propulsion nor which delayed it's production still many of the kits were selling and many people were building them, in spite of the jeering and catcalls from their neighbor for buying a car that had to be pushed, - and each worked hard to keep the vehicle in perfect working order according to the instructions that came with it..... all waiting for the day that the propulsion system would finally be produced.....

Then one day it happened - finally the manufacturer said that the system had been produced and was being shipped, all the folks with completed cars had to do was sign for it when it arrived and install it as per the instructions that came with it....

Some did exactly that.... and the vehicle ran to perfection - but by now the exterior of the vehicle looked outdated to many, even though the materials showed no sign of age or decay, and they insisted that it was an antique, interesting to look at but useless without modification and certainly not "up with the times"...... so many did modify it, the propulsion system, the exterior, even some of the mechanics inside....

funny thing was - those that were modified found that their gas mileage was horrible, that the whole thing often malfunctioned and the external modifications continuously needed upgrading and modification themselves as the materials and design never seemed to endure for very long......

but those who had kept to the manufacturer's instructions faithfully found that not only did the propulsion system save them..... much money but that the entire vehicle ran smoothly and never needed more than the occasional oil change and tires inflated....

eventually those who had modified their vehicle cast them aside saying they were outmoded and faulty to start with.... they got more "modern" vehicles that were "easier," but these required expensive routine maintenance and only lasted a few years before parts had to be replaced and gradually the parts became unavailable or "
used"

But the folks with the original kit vehicles found that theirs continued to be serviceable and reliable not only for them but even for their children and their children's children......

I still have my kit car, I drive it every day and it runs like a dream!..... and you know what...... it seems that it may be coming back in style for many too .....

I've spent many years studying the owner's manual and still haven't mastered all that it covers, but every timne I call the manufacturer he tells me just what to do and it always works!

Shabbat Shalom!


:amen:
 
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ShirChadash

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Henaynei said:
I bought a car kit - it was a beautiful vehicle, it's science and engineering were first class, truly beyond anything else out there - it came with clear and perfect instructions..... and I built it.... what a beauty, except....

it was so far ahead of it's time that the system of propulsion had not been produced, there were numerous things that had not fallen into place to provide the right confluence of resources and circumstances to allow for it's production, ... yet

but the reputation of the manufacturer was beyond reproach so even though neither I nor any I had heard of understood the issues either behind this wonderful propulsion nor which delayed it's production still many of the kits were selling and many people were building them, in spite of the jeering and catcalls from their neighbor for buying a car that had to be pushed, - and each worked hard to keep the vehicle in perfect working order according to the instructions that came with it..... all waiting for the day that the propulsion system would finally be produced.....

Then one day it happened - finally the manufacturer said that the system had been produced and was being shipped, all the folks with completed cars had to do was sign for it when it arrived and install it as per the instructions that came with it....

Some did exactly that.... and the vehicle ran to perfection - but by now the exterior of the vehicle looked outdated to many, even though the materials showed no sign of age or decay, and they insisted that it was an antique, interesting to look at but useless without modification and certainly not "up with the times"...... so many did modify it, the propulsion system, the exterior, even some of the mechanics inside....

funny thing was - those that were modified found that their gas mileage was horrible, that the whole thing often malfunctioned and the external modifications continuously needed upgrading and modification themselves as the materials and design never seemed to endure for very long......

but those who had kept to the manufacturer's instructions faithfully found that not only did the propulsion system save them..... much money but that the entire vehicle ran smoothly and never needed more than the occasional oil change and tires inflated....

eventually those who had modified their vehicle cast them aside saying they were outmoded and faulty to start with.... they got more "modern" vehicles that were "easier," but these required expensive routine maintenance and only lasted a few years before parts had to be replaced and gradually the parts became unavailable or "
used"

But the folks with the original kit vehicles found that theirs continued to be serviceable and reliable not only for them but even for their children and their children's children......

I still have my kit car, I drive it every day and it runs like a dream!..... and you know what...... it seems that it may be coming back in style for many too .....

I've spent many years studying the owner's manual and still haven't mastered all that it covers, but every timne I call the manufacturer he tells me just what to do and it always works!

Shabbat Shalom!
:amen::amen::amen::clap::cool:
 
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Steve Petersen

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Here is an example of how the word 'fulfil' was used in a Jewish context in ancient times. It meant 'to do.' I can provide more examples:

Deuteronomy Rabbah 11:6
Halachah: When a Jew goes up to read the Law, he is not permitted to commence reading it before he has recited the blessings. First he must recite the blessings and then he reads. And thus Moses, when he had the privilege of receiving the Torah, first recited a blessing, and then he read it. R. Eleazar asked: What was the blessing which Moses recited before reading it? [It was], Blessed art Thou, O Lord, King of the Universe, who hast chosen this law and sanctified it and hast found pleasure in them who fulfil it. He did not say, ' in them that labour at it,' nor, ' in them who meditate in it,' but, ' in them that fulfil it,' that is to say, in them who carry out the words of the Torah.

Shimshon, walking in the Spirit is described by Ezekiel, many centuries before Paul used the phrase. According God, the Spirit is given to help people keep His commandments:

Ezek 36:24-28 (KJV) For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. 25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. 28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.
 
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Torah

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Steve Petersen said:
Here is an example of how the word 'fulfil' was used in a Jewish context in ancient times. It meant 'to do.' I can provide more examples:

Deuteronomy Rabbah 11:6
Halachah: When a Jew goes up to read the Law, he is not permitted to commence reading it before he has recited the blessings. First he must recite the blessings and then he reads. And thus Moses, when he had the privilege of receiving the Torah, first recited a blessing, and then he read it. R. Eleazar asked: What was the blessing which Moses recited before reading it? [It was], Blessed art Thou, O Lord, King of the Universe, who hast chosen this law and sanctified it and hast found pleasure in them who fulfil it. He did not say, ' in them that labour at it,' nor, ' in them who meditate in it,' but, ' in them that fulfil it,' that is to say, in them who carry out the words of the Torah.

Shimshon, walking in the Spirit is described by Ezekiel, many centuries before Paul used the phrase. According God, the Spirit is given to help people keep His commandments:

Ezek 36:24-28 (KJV) For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. 25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. 28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.
Impressive Steve.:wave:
Shalom
 
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Shimshon

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Steve Petersen said:
Shimshon, walking in the Spirit is described by Ezekiel, many centuries before Paul used the phrase. According God, the Spirit is given to help people keep His commandments:

John 7 "My teaching is not my own, it comes from the One who sent me. 17 If anyone wants to do his will, he will know whether my teaching is from God or I speak on my own. 18 A person who speaks on his own is trying to win praise for himself; but a person who tries to win praise for the one who sent him is honest, there is nothing false about him. 19 Didn't Moshe give you the Torah? Yet not one of you obeys the Torah! Why are you out to kill me?"


1 Tim 1:8 We know that the Torah is good, provided one uses it in the way the Torah itself intends
God commanded Adam to take care of the world....he commanded Noach to build and ark....he commanded Abram to enter a Land that was going to be his.......he commanded Yisrael to enter it again and possess it.....

The issue isn't 'don't' follow his commands. It's one of actually understanding them in order to walk them out.


What has he commanded us?

He did not come to restore the broken covenant of Moshe, he came to restore the fallen tent of David.

In doing so he restores, reconciles his children Yisrael to himself. We are given a message of 'reconcilation'. We bring the message that it is ATTAINABLE NOW...through Yeshua. Not through following a broken covenant made through Moshe 3000 yrs ago. To deny it is broken and a 'new' one was made by Yeshua is to deny Torah itself. And to misunderstand the intend in which Yeshua was commanded to 'instruct' us by his Words.

This is not the way Yeshua intended us to follow HIS COMMANDS.

Love is one command. In fact He himself said you would know, be able to tell, HIS followers by the 'LOVE' they have for one another.

It's shown by patience, kindness, long-suffering, bearing up under those who may be suffering, both physically and spiritually. Basically it's loving others the way our God loves us. He is just, fair, loving to no end. He acts righteously and causes his children to act the same.

I have to admit, I have not found such a Spirit in this place.

Shalom
 
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stone

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here, i have found those that have the testimony of J-sus and follow his commandments. When i stopped eating pork, g-d spoke to me and said i was doing good, i had never ever heard his voice till then, so do you think i will take the words of men or that i will listen to g-d?
 
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ShirChadash

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shimshon said:
Love is one command. In fact He himself said you would know, be able to tell, HIS followers by the 'LOVE' they have for one another.

It's shown by patience, kindness, long-suffering, bearing up under those who may be suffering, both physically and spiritually. Basically it's loving others the way our God loves us. He is just, fair, loving to no end. He acts righteously and causes his children to act the same.

I have to admit, I have not found such a Spirit in this place.

I have, over my long time here -- with the rare exception of a few folks -- indeed found such a patient, kind, long-suffering and loving Spirit in this place. However, you yourself, Shimshon, not long ago told me I was not welcome to even fellowship with you on one of your specifically fellowship-intended, playful threads. What comes to mind for me, as a relative now-outsider to this forum, is the phrase... "people in glass houses ought not throw stones", Brother.

humbly, and nevertheless doubting your claim to be wishing "shalom" to the readers here,
~Z~
 
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visionary

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stone said:
here, i have found those that have the testimony of J-sus and follow his commandments. When i stopped eating pork, g-d spoke to me and said i was doing good, i had never ever heard his voice till then, so do you think i will take the words of men or that i will listen to g-d?
Awesome, if only more of us heard the voice of God more.... and no I do not think that the words of men have the same effect upon you that they once did.
 
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