Only one judgment of the dead in John 5:27-30

[BABerean2]

In the passage below Christ describes His judgment of the dead, when "all" will come forth from the grave, both the evil and the good.
Many have attempted to redefine this passage to make their man-made Bible doctrine work.


Joh 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
Joh 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.


The timing of this event is found in Revelation 11:15-18, which is often ignored by many.

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[SkyWriting]

In the passage below Christ describes His judgment of the dead, when "all" will come forth from the grave, both the evil and the good.
Many have attempted to redefine this passage to make their man-made Bible doctrine work.


Joh 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
Joh 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.


The timing of this event is found in Revelation 11:15-18, which is often ignored by many.

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Ignored by all mostly. Because it's covered elsewhere much clearer.
Hebrews 9:27
And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment,

2 Corinthians 5:10
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive what is due for what he has done in the body, whether good or evil.

1 Corinthians 4:5
Therefore do not pronounce judgment before the time, before the Lord comes, who will bring to light the things now hidden in darkness and will disclose the purposes of the heart. Then each one will receive his commendation from God.

 

[DavidPT]

Ignored by all mostly. Because it's covered elsewhere much clearer.
Hebrews 9:27
And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment,

2 Corinthians 5:10
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive what is due for what he has done in the body, whether good or evil.

1 Corinthians 4:5
Therefore do not pronounce judgment before the time, before the Lord comes, who will bring to light the things now hidden in darkness and will disclose the purposes of the heart. Then each one will receive his commendation from God.

When the dead in Christ rise first at the sounding of the 7th trumpet, not all of the unsaved lost back on earth are even dead yet. Look at the last verse in Revelation 11, the one having to do with an earthquake and hail. Does that look like something that would be happening to ppl already dead? Does that look like something that would be happening at the great white throne judgment? The great white throne judgment requires a resurrection from the dead. How can the great white throne judgment possibly be meaning when the dead in Christ rise first, if not all of the unsaved lost are even physically dead yet when they rise?

 

[Timtofly]

In the passage below Christ describes His judgment of the dead, when "all" will come forth from the grave, both the evil and the good.
Many have attempted to redefine this passage to make their man-made Bible doctrine work.


Joh 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
Joh 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.


The timing of this event is found in Revelation 11:15-18, which is often ignored by many.

Sorry, the Cross was the event where the Atonement sealed the everlasting punishment and everlasting life of the dead. All the dead heard the voice of Christ in sheol, and knew their judgment was fixed.

The church is now no longer dead, but alive in Christ. The rewards are handed out after the church is presented whole and complete. Those dead in their sin, left alive on earth will be killed over the next 6 years, ending in the battle of Armageddon. No more of Adam's descendants left alive in sinful fallen flesh. It is over and God’s plan of Adam's punishment is complete.


John in John is talking about the judgment of the Cross.

John in Revelation is talking about rewards for the completed church both OT and NT. Then the judgment on the living humans and Satan who have destroyed the earth with war and violence.

 

[eleos1954]

In the passage below Christ describes His judgment of the dead, when "all" will come forth from the grave, both the evil and the good.
Many have attempted to redefine this passage to make their man-made Bible doctrine work.


Joh 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
Joh 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.


The timing of this event is found in Revelation 11:15-18, which is often ignored by many.

.

Judgement has indeed taken place before He returns.

Revelation 22

Berean Study Bible
“Behold, I am coming soon, and My reward is with Me, to give to each one according to what he has done.

1st resurrection of the saved (receive eternal life and taken to heaven) .... and then later the 2nd resurrection of the lost (do not receive eternal life) and are destroyed.

When the second resurrection happens (the saved are protected in the city that descends to earth from heaven) the lost are then resurrected .... at that point is when ALL (at the same time) will see Him (even those who pierced Him).

Revelation 1:7

Berean Study Bible
Behold, He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him—even those who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. So shall it be! Amen.

 

[BABerean2]

Judgement has indeed taken place before He returns.

Revelation 22

Berean Study Bible
“Behold, I am coming soon, and My reward is with Me, to give to each one according to what he has done.

1st resurrection of the saved (receive eternal life and taken to heaven) .... and then later the 2nd resurrection of the lost (do not receive eternal life) and are destroyed.

When the second resurrection happens (the saved are protected in the city that descends to earth from heaven) the lost are then resurrected .... at that point is when ALL (at the same time) will see Him (even those who pierced Him).

Revelation 1:7

Berean Study Bible
Behold, He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him—even those who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. So shall it be! Amen.

Can you show what you are saying in John 5:27-30?

Paul said Christ judges both the living and the dead at His appearing in the verse below.

2Ti 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;


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[eleos1954]

Can you show what you are saying in John 5:27-30?

Paul said Christ judges both the living and the dead at His appearing in the verse below.

2Ti 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;


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Judgement does indeed take place (has taken place) when He returns ... the fate of everyone has been decided by Him .... however that is not the final end ... that is when the 1st resurrection (of the saved) happens .... the 2nd resurrection of the lost happens later.

Then I saw thrones, and those seated on them were given authority to judge. I also saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony to Jesus and for the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection (Revelation 20:4,5).

 

[SkyWriting]

When the dead in Christ rise first at the sounding of the 7th trumpet, not all of the unsaved lost back on earth are even dead yet. Look at the last verse in Revelation 11, the one having to do with an earthquake and hail. Does that look like something that would be happening to ppl already dead? Does that look like something that would be happening at the great white throne judgment? The great white throne judgment requires a resurrection from the dead. How can the great white throne judgment possibly be meaning when the dead in Christ rise first, if not all of the unsaved lost are even physically dead yet when they rise?

I'm not going to read Revelation until my last few hours on earth.
There is still more important material in the middle for me to work though.

 

[BABerean2]

Judgement does indeed take place (has taken place) when He returns ... the fate of everyone has been decided by Him .... however that is not the final end ... that is when the 1st resurrection (of the saved) happens .... the 2nd resurrection of the lost happens later.

Then I saw thrones, and those seated on them were given authority to judge. I also saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony to Jesus and for the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection (Revelation 20:4,5).

I will ask you once again.
Can you show what you are saying in John 5:27-30?

How do you explain the time of the judgment of the dead, with reward for some and destruction for others in Revelation 11:18, if the Book of Revelation is in chronological order?


If the two witnesses are resurrected from the dead in Revelation 11, is the "first resurrection" in chapter 20 the first bodily resurrection in the Book of Revelation?

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[eleos1954]

I will ask you once again.
Can you show what you are saying in John 5:27-30?

How do you explain the time of the judgment of the dead, with reward for some and destruction for others in Revelation 11:18, if the Book of Revelation is in chronological order?


If the two witnesses are resurrected from the dead in Revelation 11, is the "first resurrection" in chapter 20 the first bodily resurrection in the Book of Revelation?

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How do you explain the time of the judgment of the dead, with reward for some and destruction for others in Revelation 11:18, if the Book of Revelation is in chronological order?

The book of Revelation is NOT in chronological order.

The book of Revelation is like a highly condensed version of the entire bible ... re-visiting some of the extremely important historical points and also prophesying into the future.

Again .... judgement has taken place before He returns.

There is 1,000 years between the 1st resurrection and the 2nd resurrection.

The first is of the saved .... the 2nd is of the lost.

Revelation 20:6
Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection (all the saved dead or living at the time!) Over such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years.

Revelation 20:5
The rest of the dead (all the lost) did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection.

 

[BABerean2]

How do you explain the time of the judgment of the dead, with reward for some and destruction for others in Revelation 11:18, if the Book of Revelation is in chronological order?

The book of Revelation is NOT in chronological order.

The book of Revelation is like a highly condensed version of the entire bible ... re-visiting some of the extremely important historical points and also prophesying into the future.

Again .... judgement has taken place before He returns.

There is 1,000 years between the 1st resurrection and the 2nd resurrection.

The first is of the saved .... the 2nd is of the lost.

Revelation 20:6
Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection (all the saved dead or living at the time!) Over such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years.

Revelation 20:5
The rest of the dead (all the lost) did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection.

In 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10 Paul said the fire comes at the return of Christ.
The fire comes at the end of Revelation 20.

In 2 Timothy 4:1 Paul said Christ judges both the living and the dead at His appearing.
The judgment of the dead is at the end of Revelation 20.

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[DavidPT]

Judgement has indeed taken place before He returns.

Revelation 22

Berean Study Bible
“Behold, I am coming soon, and My reward is with Me, to give to each one according to what he has done.

1st resurrection of the saved (receive eternal life and taken to heaven) .... and then later the 2nd resurrection of the lost (do not receive eternal life) and are destroyed.

When the second resurrection happens (the saved are protected in the city that descends to earth from heaven) the lost are then resurrected .... at that point is when ALL (at the same time) will see Him (even those who pierced Him).

Revelation 1:7

Berean Study Bible
Behold, He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him—even those who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. So shall it be! Amen.

IMO, some of you maybe need to switch to Amil. Because some of the stuff you are proposing couldn't possibly fit Premil, but might fit Amil. Revelation 1:7 is meaning the 2nd coming at the end of this age, and not a thousand years after the 2nd coming instead.

Per mainstream Amil they would have this event occurring after the thousand years just like you do. Per mainstream Premil they would have this event occurring before the thousand years.


Revelation 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Revelation 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.


This seems straightforward to me. satan was initially deceiving the nations, so he is then bodily seized and cast into the pit for a thousand years. This indicates that if he is on earth when he is seized, then cast into something, this something has to be below the earth's surface, obviously. This also debunks some Amil views, since some Amils claim it is the surface of the earth that is meaning the pit. The fact an angel has to come down from heaven first, obviously indicates that is because this is where satan is presently dwelling. Obviously, this is meaning after the war in heaven and that he has been cast to the earth. And the fact satan is already on the earth, it makes zero sense this angel would be casting him into somewhere he already is.

While satan is in the pit, not one single person is being deceived by him whatsoever. This is why, when he is loosed from the pit, he goes out to deceive the nations. You don't deceive someone already deceived, you deceive someone not already deceived. During the thousand years not one single survivor of the nations which came against Jerusalem will any longer be deceived, the fact Christ and His immortal saints would be governing the planet at the time. Everyone alive during the thousand years are fully aware that there is a God, and that He exists, the fact God would be dwelling among them via Christ.

The same thing basically happened in satan's case. Initially satan was in God's presence and was in good standing at the time, thus satan knew without a doubt that there is a God and that He exists. Yet he still rebelled, regardless. They say history repeats itself. It looks like that is exactly what it does when survivors from the nations are in God's presence, thus they undeniably know He exists, but just like satan, they end up rebelling against Him, regardless. Apparently, satan deceived angels when he initially rebelled, and after the thousand years, instead of deceiving angels that have literally been in God's presence, this time around he deceives humans who have literally been in God's presence. Sounds like history repeating itself to me.

And assuming I'm on the right track here, this is yet another reason why there are two resurrections seen in Revelation 20, and that there is a gap of a thousand years or more between them, and that both resurrections have to be the same type of resurrection, that being a bodily one. Amils make zero sense when they insist the first resurrection is spiritual, but the final resurrection is bodily. Revelation 20 shows that there is a gap between the two resurrections that were brought up in the OP. Common sense alone tells you there has to be gap of some kind, so why not a thousand year gap?

 

[DavidPT]

I'm not going to read Revelation until my last few hours on earth.
There is still more important material in the middle for me to work though.

I'm just trying to point out that maybe some of these events are more involved than what some are willing to admit. Some are trying to fit all of these events into a single 24 hour day or less, when in reality that might be far from the truth of the matter.

 

[SkyWriting]

I'm just trying to point out that maybe some of these events are more involved than what some are willing to admit. Some are trying to fit all of these events into a single 24 hour day or less, when in reality that might be far from the truth of the matter.

Sure. I've never heard the one day theory.
In fact I've never heard any attempt to pin down any time frame.

 

[eleos1954]

Can you show what you are saying in John 5:27-30?

Paul said Christ judges both the living and the dead at His appearing in the verse below.

2Ti 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;


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GOD'S WORD® Translation
Don't be surprised at what I've just said. A time is coming when all the dead will hear his voice,


hóra: a time or period, an hour
Original Word: ὥρα, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: hóra
Phonetic Spelling: (ho'-rah)
Definition: a time or period, an hour
Usage: (a) a definite space of time, a season, (b) an hour, (c) the particular time for anything.
HELPS Word-studies

5610 hṓra – properly, an hour; (figuratively) a finite "season"; limited time or opportunity to reach a goal (fulfill a purpose); a divinely pre-set time-period; a limited period to accomplish the Lord's specific purpose, i.e. "the hour" in which specific characteristics prevail exactly like that for a limited time.

Paul said Christ judges both the living and the dead at His appearing in the verse below.

Like I said ... yes ... all judgement has taken place (before He returns) ... but not both resurrections happen at the same time.

When He returns the first resurrection happens (those who were judged innocent because covered by the blood of Christ) .... then later ... the 2nd resurrection (all of the lost)

Revelation 20:4-6
Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. (those in the 1st resurrection)

The rest of the dead (the lost - 2nd resurrection) did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years.

Revelation 20:7-8 ESV / 3 helpful votes
And when the thousand years are ended, Satan will be released from his prison and will come out to deceive the nations that are at the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them for battle; their number is like the sand of the sea.

Revelation 2:11
He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. The one who conquers will not be hurt by the second death.’

The saved die once (those alive at the time will be translated) resurrected to life (made immortal) .... the unsaved die twice (the 2nd death is their eternal destruction) do not receive immortality and are destroyed by fire along with the earth and everything in it.

Then God makes everything new.

 

[BABerean2]

Like I said ... yes ... all judgement has taken place (before He returns) ... but not both resurrections happen at the same time.

Like many, you are using the symbolic language of Revelation 20 to redefine the words of Christ and Paul.

Pastor Wagner reveals the truth below.

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[eleos1954]

Like many, you are using the symbolic language of Revelation 20 to redefine the words of Christ and Paul.

Pastor Wagner reveals the truth below.

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I have limited internet and therefore do not watch videos

 

[BABerean2]

When the dead in Christ rise first at the sounding of the 7th trumpet, not all of the unsaved lost back on earth are even dead yet. Look at the last verse in Revelation 11, the one having to do with an earthquake and hail. Does that look like something that would be happening to ppl already dead? Does that look like something that would be happening at the great white throne judgment? The great white throne judgment requires a resurrection from the dead. How can the great white throne judgment possibly be meaning when the dead in Christ rise first, if not all of the unsaved lost are even physically dead yet when they rise?

Can you show what you are claiming above in John 5:27-30, or are you arguing against what Jesus said?


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[DavidPT]

Sure. I've never heard the one day theory.
In fact I've never heard any attempt to pin down any time frame.

In this particular case, I'm only meaning in regards to the two resurrections brought up in the OP, plus the events I brought up concerning the 7th trumpet, that some are trying to fit all these events into a single 24 hour day or less, when these events might require more than a single 24 hour day or less to fulfill. Revelation 11 ends with an earthquake and great hail. Surely these events have to be recorded somewhere else in Revelation where we see these events continued and what all it leads to at the time. Nothing in chapter 12 or 13 would be chronologically occurring next. But starting in Revelation 15 or 16 there might be something recorded that show us what happens next.

Until all of the unsaved lost are dead first, it is ludicrous that there can be the resurrection of the lost unsaved, which involves the great white throne judgment, prior to them even being dead first. The 7th trumpet indicates it is the time of the dead, while the last verse in that chapter proves that not everyone are even dead yet. So my argument is, maybe it's only the time of the dead for some of the dead, and not all of the dead.

 

[DavidPT]

Can you show what you are claiming above in John 5:27-30, or are you arguing against what Jesus said?


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Obviously, unless someone is blind to reality, thus denies this, there has to be a gap of some kind between the resurrection of the righteous dead, and the resurrection of the unrighteous dead. It's impossible that these resurrections can be simultaneous. The fact the dead in Christ rising first, this alone proves there is a gap between these resurrections. The text involved does not say that the dead in Christ, plus the unsaved dead, rise first, followed by the rapture.

And if one looks in Revelation 19, what does one see? They see events involving the 2nd coming, and that the armies seen coming with Jesus at the time have to include the dead in Christ who rise first, and those who are caught up to Him during the rapture during the 2nd coming. And what else does one see in that chapter? They see that not everyone who is unsaved are even dead yet. And this is after the resurrection of the dead in Christ has already taken place. When the dead in Christ rose first, how could that have not been the time of the dead, in their case? How could that have also been the time of the dead, in regards to the unsaved, which would have to involve the great white throne judgment, when Revelation 19 doesn't even have the great white throne judgment in view at the time? How could this judgment possibly precede the remnant being killed first?

So how can there possibly not be a gap of some kind between the resurrection of the saved, and the resurrection of the unsaved? The fact there is a gap, Revelation 20 reveals this gap is at least 1000 years or more.