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One's salvation can be lost

Discussion in 'Salvation (Soteriology)' started by janxharris, Jan 5, 2013.

  1. Arcoe

    Arcoe Do This And Live!

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    Oh, I thought you meant the exact words.

    Romans 1:28 -
    And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper
     
  2. Arcoe

    Arcoe Do This And Live!

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    I'm not sure where you are going, but who is the 'they' in this verse?

    If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them.

    Only two answers: the regenerate or the unregenerate. Which one is Peter describing?
     
  3. Arcoe

    Arcoe Do This And Live!

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    Ezekiel 14 -
    7 For anyone of the house of Israel (the chosen) or of the immigrants who stay in Israel who separates himself from Me, sets up his idols in his heart, puts right before his face the stumbling block of his iniquity, and then comes to the prophet to inquire of Me for himself, I the Lord will be brought to answer him in My own person.
    8 I will set My face against that man and make him a sign and a proverb, and I will cut him off from among My people. So you will know that I am the Lord.

    Ezekiel 18:24 -
    But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness, commits iniquity and does according to all the abominations that a wicked man does, will he live? All his righteous deeds which he has done will not be remembered for his treachery which he has committed and his sin which he has committed; for them he will die.

    What is interesting is what God says next in verse 25 -
    Yet you say, ‘The way of the Lord is not right.’ Hear now, O house of Israel! Is My way not right? Is it not your ways that are not right?

    How many say the righteous man cannot lose his salvation? The Lord says in verse 24, a righteous man can die for his iniquities and abominations. Yet some say 'that's not right, he can't lose his salvation'. God says His ways are right, and that it is yours that are not right.
     
  4. Hentenza

    Hentenza I will fear no evil for You are with me Supporter

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    Last edited: Jan 12, 2013
  5. Arcoe

    Arcoe Do This And Live!

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    How can a man escape the defilement of the world? Can he do this of himself? Or perhaps, can it can be done only in Christ? This 'dog' or 'false teacher' as most will agree is the subject of verse 20, had to be in Christ at one time to escape the defilement of the world. If he wasn't in Christ, then you must say he did this on his own.

    A regenerated man becomes a 'dog who returns to his own vomit' when he forsakes the right way and goes astray as verse 15 states, or is overcome by corruption as verse 19 states.
     
  6. Hentenza

    Hentenza I will fear no evil for You are with me Supporter

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    If there was only one kind of faith I would agree with you but scripture speaks of more than one kind of faith. The soils parable explains the different kinds of faith. Those that planted their seed in rocky or thorny soil are those with a nominal faith. No change in life has happened but they have knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. These fall away, swayed by the false teachers and false prophets and are dogs that return to their vomit. However, those that plant their seed in good soil have lasting, saving faith. Those have been born again and made into a new creation. It is impossible for these to loose their salvation.
     
  7. Arcoe

    Arcoe Do This And Live!

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    You must be reading a totally different parable from which I read in my Bible.

    I find nothing about 'nominal' faith in any part of the parable. Please don't tell my you added that only to justify your belief. Either a person believes or he doesn't; it's either a living faith or a dead one. There is no middle road.

    You also said, "Those that planted their seed in rocky or thorny soil are those with a nominal faith. No change in life has happened but they have knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ".

    You are giving me mixed signals here. I thought the unregenerate are blind, deaf, and dumb to the things of Christ. Now you tell me they have a knowledge of Christ. How does someone you cannot possibly know spiritual things, know Christ?

    You all need to get together and make a final decision at to what the unregenerate can and cannot do, and then stick with your decision. I would love to have your list when you are done. It's no wonder many people don't 'know' and misunderstand the Calvinist position; it changes when scripture contradicts it. I have also found, it something disagrees with your position, just make 'two' of the thing, and go with the one which justifies the Calvinist's belief.
     
  8. Hentenza

    Hentenza I will fear no evil for You are with me Supporter

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    Naturally. I read it plainly.

    then you doubt Jesus own words? For shame, for shame......

    Because some do not progress and satan sways them. That teaching is explicit to the text.

    lol snarky. I find that those that throw red herrings typically are just attempting to hide their argument deficiencies. Your knowledge of what "calvinism" teaches is lacking. No surprise there.
     
  9. Arcoe

    Arcoe Do This And Live!

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    Please show me plainly where 'nominal faith' is mentioned anywhere in this parable.

    Jesus said NOTHING about 'nominal faith'.

    Progress in what? Salvation? Regeneration?

    Then by all means, straighten me out on what the unregenerate can and cannot do. I want to see if you know what Calvinism teaches.
     
  10. Arcoe

    Arcoe Do This And Live!

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    Let's see just how plainly you read it.

    This is taken from the Canons of Dordt, Rejection of Errors, no.1 -

    "As Scripture says, I have revealed your name to those whom you gave me (John 17:6). Likewise, All who were appointed for eternal life believed (Acts 13:48)."

    If a person 'knows' or has a knowledge of Christ, then the above states it was revealed to those whom God gave Christ.

    Also, ALL who were appointed for eternal life believed. Luke 8:13 states, "Those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no firm root; they believe for a while, and in time of temptation fall away".

    If all appointed to eternal life believe, how is it that Jesus says those on rocky soil are those who believe for a while and then fall away? Were these who believed not appointed for eternal life?
     
  11. drstevej

    drstevej Light Attracts Bugs Staff Member Chaplain Supporter

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    The term eternal life might be a start.

    not...
    • probationary life
    • conditional life
    • potential life


    ETERNAL life

    1 John 5:11
    And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
     
  12. cygnusx1

    cygnusx1 Jacob the twister.....

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    Professing believers , who will prove their pedigree in time :

    "They went out from us because they were not of us"
     
  13. cygnusx1

    cygnusx1 Jacob the twister.....

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    Scripture says we are chosen for salvation and some Christians openly say this is FALSE !
     
  14. gmm4j

    gmm4j Well-Known Member

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    Scripture says? Who is chosen?
     
  15. cygnusx1

    cygnusx1 Jacob the twister.....

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    Scripture says we are chosen for salvation

    Who is chosen ? the elect
     
  16. gmm4j

    gmm4j Well-Known Member

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    With an invitation a free will decision is implied by the One sending the invitation and must be made by the one being invited. Accept the invitation and go to the wedding banquet or reject the invitation to continue doing your own thing.

    Matthew 22:1-14
    Jesus spoke to them again in parables, saying: 2 "The kingdom of heaven is like a king who prepared a wedding banquet for his son. 3 He sent his servants to those who had been invited to the banquet to tell them to come, but they refused to come. 4 "Then he sent some more servants and said, 'Tell those who have been invited that I have prepared my dinner: My oxen and fattened cattle have been butchered, and everything is ready. Come to the wedding banquet.' 5 "But they paid no attention and went off-one to his field, another to his business. 6 The rest seized his servants, mistreated them and killed them. 7 The king was enraged. He sent his army and destroyed those murderers and burned their city. 8 "Then he said to his servants, 'The wedding banquet is ready, but those I invited did not deserve to come. 9 Go to the street corners and invite to the banquet anyone you find.' 10 So the servants went out into the streets and gathered all the people they could find, both good and bad, and the wedding hall was filled with guests. 11 "But when the king came in to see the guests, he noticed a man there who was not wearing wedding clothes. 12'Friend,' he asked, 'how did you get in here without wedding clothes?' The man was speechless. 13 "Then the king told the attendants, 'Tie him hand and foot, and throw him outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.' 14 "For many are invited, but few are chosen."

    As expected, Calvinistic verbiage is not found in Jesus’ parable. Calvinism teaches those who were “not willing to come” were not willing because they were not chosen. The text however, indicates the exact opposite. They were not chosen because they were not willing to come. Likewise, Calvinism says those who accepted the invitation and put on the proper apparel did so because they were chosen. The text again shows that they were chosen because they accepted the invitation. Many are invited, but you become a “chosen one” by accepting the invite. Election is based on faith.
     
  17. DeaconDean

    DeaconDean γέγονα χαλκὸς, κύμβαλον ἀλαλάζον

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    "In life one and one don't make two
    One and one make one"

    The Who, Bargain

    God Bless

    Till all are one.
     
  18. DeaconDean

    DeaconDean γέγονα χαλκὸς, κύμβαλον ἀλαλάζον

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    Just as the whole world was "elected" in Deut. because they were willing to come instead of God electing out of the world a particular people for Himself.

    Yea, yea, same old anti-calvinist rhetoric I've heard on a consistant, daily, basis for darn near 8 years now.

    God Bless

    Till all are one.
     
  19. gmm4j

    gmm4j Well-Known Member

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    I guess we're consistent.
     
  20. janxharris

    janxharris Veteran

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    Surely Arcoe has nailed the argument here?

    To suggest that those described in 2 Peter 2:20 are not really true believers is untenable - Calvinists use 1 Corinthians 2:14 to argue that only the regenerate can turn to God.

    The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.

    Is anyone suggesting that 'escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ' is different to 'accept the things that come from the Spirit of God...and...understand them...'?

    .
     
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