One will be taken and the other left: rapture or judgment on the one taken?

[claninja]

Luke 17:34-35 34I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left. 35Two women will be grinding grain together; one will be taken and the other left.”

This verse is often used to show that a rapture of believers will occur. However, the more I read this, the more it appears that the one who is taken is the one facing judgment.

The previous verses in Luke 17:26-33 set the context of Judgment with examples of Noah and Lot. In the parallel account: Matthew 24:39 39and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.

Those that are being judged were taken away.

The disciples asked a very interesting question about those that are taken.

Luke 17:37 “Where, Lord?” they asked.

It appears they are asking where those taken are taken to.

Jesus replies in Luke 17:38: And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body [is], thither will the eagles be gathered together.

I know this verse has many interpretations, but within the context of the passage, it appears to be about judgment. Especially considering that the body and birds are used as symbols of judgment in Jeremiah 7:33 Then the carcasses of this people will become food for the birds and the wild animals, and there will be no one to frighten them away.

 

[GandalfTheWise]

I've long held similar views on this passage from Luke.

 

[SkyWriting]

Luke 17:34-35 34I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left. 35Two women will be grinding grain together; one will be taken and the other left.”

This verse is often used to show that a rapture of believers will occur. However, the more I read this, the more it appears that the one who is taken is the one facing judgment.

The previous verses in Luke 17:26-33 set the context of Judgment with examples of Noah and Lot. In the parallel account: Matthew 24:39 39and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.

Those that are being judged were taken away.

The disciples asked a very interesting question about those that are taken.

Luke 17:37 “Where, Lord?” they asked.

It appears they are asking where those taken are taken to.

Jesus replies in Luke 17:38: And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body [is], thither will the eagles be gathered together.

I know this verse has many interpretations, but within the context of the passage, it appears to be about judgment. Especially considering that the body and birds are used as symbols of judgment in Jeremiah 7:33 Then the carcasses of this people will become food for the birds and the wild animals, and there will be no one to frighten them away.

I dunno.

 

[Bro. Daniel]

Luke 17:34-35 34I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left. 35Two women will be grinding grain together; one will be taken and the other left.”

This verse is often used to show that a rapture of believers will occur. However, the more I read this, the more it appears that the one who is taken is the one facing judgment.

The previous verses in Luke 17:26-33 set the context of Judgment with examples of Noah and Lot. In the parallel account: Matthew 24:39 39and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.

Those that are being judged were taken away.

The disciples asked a very interesting question about those that are taken.

Luke 17:37 “Where, Lord?” they asked.

It appears they are asking where those taken are taken to.

Jesus replies in Luke 17:38: And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body [is], thither will the eagles be gathered together.

I know this verse has many interpretations, but within the context of the passage, it appears to be about judgment. Especially considering that the body and birds are used as symbols of judgment in Jeremiah 7:33 Then the carcasses of this people will become food for the birds and the wild animals, and there will be no one to frighten them away.

You're right on both accounts. The rapture will be used to pull the wicked away and the unsaved. Matthew 13 for reference. The verses of the Rapture / judgment will be that of verses Matthew 13:36-51. Refer to the white throne judgment in Revelation 20. There's 2 judgments, one of God at the white throne and the second of Christ's judgment seat.

 

[Waterwerx]

It's referring to judgment and follows the pattern of increasing severity. The 4th seal kills a fourth of mankind through pestilence(its questionable whether this affects a specific ratio of mankind as opposed to a specific ratio/area/region of the earth. The 6th trumpet kills a third of mankind, and upon Christ's return, half of whatever is left of mankind is killed by various judgments.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Luke 17:34-35 34I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left. 35Two women will be grinding grain together; one will be taken and the other left.”

This verse is often used to show that a rapture of believers will occur. However, the more I read this, the more it appears that the one who is taken is the one facing judgment.

The previous verses in Luke 17:26-33 set the context of Judgment with examples of Noah and Lot. In the parallel account: Matthew 24:39 39and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.

Those that are being judged were taken away.

The disciples asked a very interesting question about those that are taken.

Luke 17:37 “Where, Lord?” they asked.

It appears they are asking where those taken are taken to.

Jesus replies in Luke 17:38: And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body [is], thither will the eagles be gathered together.

I know this verse has many interpretations, but within the context of the passage, it appears to be about judgment. Especially considering that the body and birds are used as symbols of judgment in Jeremiah 7:33 Then the carcasses of this people will become food for the birds and the wild animals, and there will be no one to frighten them away.

The thing is, this is all highly dependent upon your interpretation of end-times prophecy as a whole. I personally don't believe that when He returns for His bride that He will immediately begin executing judgment on the wicked. I believe the saints will be taken to join Him in the marriage supper of the Lamb, while on earth the wrath of God finally begins to be poured on the kingdom of the beast (in other words, this period of judgment upon the wicked will last quite some time).

This interpretation is also in keeping with the analogy of Noah and the flood (Matthew 24:36-39), and those who will have their houses broken into if not prepared (Matthew 24:42-44). The focus of the entire passage is on believers needing to be prepared before judgment comes, during a time when the world will not be.

About the verse "where the body is there will the eagles be gathered," you might find the following thread interesting. I agreed with some of the OP's conclusions, as I think the "eagles" are a reference to the angels of God, and the "body" is the body of Christ being gathered by them (see Post #9).
Body or Carcass and Eagle or Vulture - Help deceide

 

[ICONO'CLAST]

Those taken...were taken in judgment...The rapture is the last day.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Luke 17:34-35 34I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left. 35Two women will be grinding grain together; one will be taken and the other left.”

This verse is often used to show that a rapture of believers will occur. However, the more I read this, the more it appears that the one who is taken is the one facing judgment.

The previous verses in Luke 17:26-33 set the context of Judgment with examples of Noah and Lot. In the parallel account: Matthew 24:39 39and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.

Those that are being judged were taken away.

The disciples asked a very interesting question about those that are taken.

Luke 17:37 “Where, Lord?” they asked.

It appears they are asking where those taken are taken to.

Jesus replies in Luke 17:38: And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body [is], thither will the eagles be gathered together.

I know this verse has many interpretations, but within the context of the passage, it appears to be about judgment. Especially considering that the body and birds are used as symbols of judgment in Jeremiah 7:33 Then the carcasses of this people will become food for the birds and the wild animals, and there will be no one to frighten them away.

....yeah, this is the very passage (in Matthew and Luke) that I had many suspicions about when I first became a Christian, particularly as I sat in the pews of my local Southern Baptist church where I attended at that time, hearing this verse being preached upon as a "proof-text" for a Dispensationalist Rapture. Let's just say, I was the only one there not "a-mening" the preacher in his message. (I wasn't booing or hissing him either; he was still right on some other, more morally directed points in his message...)

I think the best interpretive analysis we can do on this passage will lead us to apply it solely, or almost so, to the oncoming judgement of Jerusalem which took place in 70 A.D. Those who heeded Jesus' warning fled. But those, like Lot's wife in the story of Sodom and Gomorrah, who decided to dally around got caught in the oncoming hordes of Roman "Eagles."

 

[Dkh587]

We better hope we are left here on earth... it's the ones taken away that will be cast into the fire

Matthew 13:47-50 NLT
Again, the Kingdom of Heaven is like a fishing net that was thrown into the water and caught fish of every kind.
When the net was full, they dragged it up onto the shore, sat down, and sorted the good fish into crates, but threw the bad ones away.
That is the way it will be at the end of the world.
The angels will come and separate the wicked people from the righteous, throwing the wicked into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

 

[Adstar]

Luke 17:34-35 34I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left. 35Two women will be grinding grain together; one will be taken and the other left.”

This verse is often used to show that a rapture of believers will occur. However, the more I read this, the more it appears that the one who is taken is the one facing judgment.

The previous verses in Luke 17:26-33 set the context of Judgment with examples of Noah and Lot. In the parallel account: Matthew 24:39 39and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.

Those that are being judged were taken away.

The disciples asked a very interesting question about those that are taken.

Luke 17:37 “Where, Lord?” they asked.

It appears they are asking where those taken are taken to.

Jesus replies in Luke 17:38: And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body [is], thither will the eagles be gathered together.

I know this verse has many interpretations, but within the context of the passage, it appears to be about judgment. Especially considering that the body and birds are used as symbols of judgment in Jeremiah 7:33 Then the carcasses of this people will become food for the birds and the wild animals, and there will be no one to frighten them away.

I disagree with you.. The ones who are taken will be raptured and saved.. The ones that remain will face the wrath of God .. When the scriptures talk of the flood taking them away is talking about them being killed.. Taken away from the world as it where in death.. Whilst the rapture has noting to do with death..

 

[claninja]

I disagree with you.. The ones who are taken will be raptured and saved.. The ones that remain will face the wrath of God .. When the scriptures talk of the flood taking them away is talking about them being killed.. Taken away from the world as it where in death.. Whilst the rapture has noting to do with death..

Thank you for the response. I thinks its great to take a look at both sides. For the longest time, I thought it was about the rapture, as that is what I was taught since I was a child.

However, Luke 17:30 says this: 30“It will be just like this on the day the Son of Man is revealed.

It will be just like what? According to Jesus, Just like this:
Luke 17:26-29
26“Just as it was in the days of Noah, so also will it be in the days of the Son of Man. 27People were eating, drinking, marrying and being given in marriage up to the day Noah entered the ark. Then the flood came and destroyed them all.
28“It was the same in the days of Lot. People were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building. 29But the day Lot left Sodom, fire and sulfur rained down from heaven and destroyed them all.

So Jesus is definitely talking about death, destruction, and judgment in this context, not going to heaven.

Right after this Jesus tells his disciples not to worry about going back for their possessions. He reminds them of Lot's wife who looked back at their home while fleeing the destruction (Luke 17:30-34). Going back to the life they made in Jerusalem would cost them their life when the destruction occurs.

Again, Jesus is talking about death, destruction, and judgment.

Now we must compare this to the Matthew account.

Matthew 24:36-39
“But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son,f but only the Father. 37As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.

What we can conclude, unless you can provide scripture that shows otherwise, is that the "took them all away" is the same as "destroyed them all".

In both Matthew and Luke, Jesus mentions the one taken and the one left behind right after the account of the flood "taking away" or "destroying" all those who were judged for their wickedness.

To me, the most interesting part is when the disciples ask "where Lord?" right after this in Luke's account (Luke 17:37).

With all the talk of death, destruction, and judgment, I do not think the "carcass and eagles" refer to heaven.

To me, it appears to be about spiritually dead Israel and Rome coming to bring God's judgment.

Jeremiah used this same type of language when Israel was going to be judged by God using Babylon

Jeremiah 7:33
Then the carcasses of this people will become food for the birds and the wild animals, and there will be no one to frighten them away

 

[claninja]

The thing is, this is all highly dependent upon your interpretation of end-times prophecy as a whole. I personally don't believe that when He returns for His bride that He will immediately begin executing judgment on the wicked. I believe the saints will be taken to join Him in the marriage supper of the Lamb, while on earth the wrath of God finally begins to be poured on the kingdom of the beast (in other words, this period of judgment upon the wicked will last quite some time).

This interpretation is also in keeping with the analogy of Noah and the flood (Matthew 24:36-39), and those who will have their houses broken into if not prepared (Matthew 24:42-44). The focus of the entire passage is on believers needing to be prepared before judgment comes, during a time when the world will not be.

About the verse "where the body is there will the eagles be gathered," you might find the following thread interesting. I agreed with some of the OP's conclusions, as I think the "eagles" are a reference to the angels of God, and the "body" is the body of Christ being gathered by them (see Post #9).
Body or Carcass and Eagle or Vulture - Help deceide

Thank you for providing that link.

I agree that it does depend on our lens in which we view what the "end times" mean. Is it the end of the entire kosmos? or the end of the old covenant age? I was raised believing the first one, but I now lean toward the latter.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Thank you for providing that link.

I agree that it does depend on our lens in which we view what the "end times" mean. Is it the end of the entire kosmos? or the end of the old covenant age? I was raised believing the first one, but I now lean toward the latter.

End of the "six days work," if you will, and the start of the millennium, which will be a thousand years peace under the reign of Christ from Jerusalem. The new heavens and new earth will not be created until after the thousand years are up and Satan has been loosed one more time, to thereafter be cast into the Lake of Fire for good (Revelation 20, Revelation 21, & Revelation 22).

 

[claninja]

End of the "six days work," if you will, and the start of the millennium, which will be a thousand years peace under the reign of Christ from Jerusalem. The new heavens and new earth will not be created until after the thousand years are up and Satan has been loosed one more time, to thereafter be cast into the Lake of Fire for good (Revelation 20, Revelation 21, & Revelation 22).

I don't think I necessarily agree with the earthly 1000 year reign being literal. And it's because of there seems to be a contradiction with this dispensational belief:

Is Christ in heaven or on earth until his enemies are made a footstool?

 

[Hidden In Him]

I don't think I necessarily agree with the earthly 1000 year reign being literal. And it's because of there seems to be a contradiction with this dispensational belief:

Is Christ in heaven or on earth until his enemies are made a footstool?

Most of His enemies are made His footstool before the Millennium, because the reference is primarily to the wicked being cast into the Lake of Fire (that would take some time to explain, but I can send you a link to a study if you like).

The final enemy will be Satan himself, who as I said will be locked up in the abyss until the 1,000 years are over, and only then cast into the Lake of Fire.

 

[claninja]

Most of His enemies are made His footstool before the Millennium, because the reference is primarily to the wicked being cast into the Lake of Fire (that would take some time to explain, but I can send you a link to a study if you like).

The final enemy will be Satan himself, who as I said will be locked up in the abyss until the 1,000 years are over, and only then cast into the Lake of Fire.

But the Bible doesn't say most, it says ALL.

Additionally the last enemy is not Satan, it is death

1 Corinthians 15:26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death.

 

[Hidden In Him]

But the Bible doesn't say most, it says ALL.

Additionally the last enemy is not Satan, it is death

1 Corinthians 15:26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death.

Bravo. I stand corrected. Satan (Revelation 20:10), and then death and Hell (Revelation 20:14).

 

[claninja]

Bravo. I stand corrected. Satan (Revelation 20:10), and then death and Hell (Revelation 20:14).

I appreciate you bringing these topics up. We will probably disagree on revelation tho. I tend to use 1 Corinthians 15 for end times study, not revelation.

 

[Hidden In Him]

I appreciate you bringing these topics up. We will probably disagree on revelation tho. I tend to use 1 Corinthians 15 for end times study, not revelation.

No problem. So long as it's a friendly discussion, I have no problems whatsoever with agreeing to disagree. Thanks for your courtesy.

 

[Adstar]

Thank you for the response. I thinks its great to take a look at both sides. For the longest time, I thought it was about the rapture, as that is what I was taught since I was a child.

However, Luke 17:30 says this: 30“It will be just like this on the day the Son of Man is revealed.

It will be just like what? According to Jesus, Just like this:
Luke 17:26-29
26“Just as it was in the days of Noah, so also will it be in the days of the Son of Man. 27People were eating, drinking, marrying and being given in marriage up to the day Noah entered the ark. Then the flood came and destroyed them all.
28“It was the same in the days of Lot. People were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building. 29But the day Lot left Sodom, fire and sulfur rained down from heaven and destroyed them all.

So Jesus is definitely talking about death, destruction, and judgment in this context, not going to heaven.

Yes death upon the ones who remain.. It will rain fire and brimstone upon those on the earth in those days the book of revelation declares that 1/3rd of the earth surface will be burn't up..