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Featured One true Church?

Discussion in 'Denomination Specific Theology' started by mikeangel, Nov 15, 2019.

  1. mikeangel

    mikeangel Member

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    I know of a few churches that believe that their church is the one true church, and all others are either less than they are or are flat out going to hell.

    First of all, I am Catholic. My church believes this. Other churches are "separated"

    I think the main difference between Catholic Churches and Protestant churches is Communion.

    Catholic churches believe that it is literally him, produced in the Catholic only process of transubstantiation. But at the last supper he held it up, before he was sacrificed, and said,"this is my body"

    Protestant churches believe that it is a memorial meal only, and a symbol. But Jesus said about the bread "this is my body"

    What if it is him, symbolically and literally, and both are right, and both are wrong? That would mean that you will be judged on how much you loved others and showed mercy, no mater what rituals you did or church you belonged to.

    New International Version
    For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.

    New International Version
    Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

    I do believe this. And I believe that the church with a small "c" catholic, is the universal church of all who believe in and love and follow Jesus. Peace
     
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  2. mikeangel

    mikeangel Member

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  3. Justasking123

    Justasking123 New Member

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    I am also wondering, only God knows who his people is. I met Christians who lived together everyday in a community and lived by the Word of God without compromising, it seems to me they lived like Jesus wanted, but it is not an easy thing to do, by the grace of God they are able to.
     
  4. Aussie Pete

    Aussie Pete Well-Known Member Supporter

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    A believer is rewarded according to works, not those that originate from self, but that which is motivated and empowered by the Holy Spirit. A born again Christian has passed from death to life and will not be judged as a sinner.
    The real church consists of all who are born again. The Bible is absolutely clear on this point. There is much to say about communion, but it's not the place. Lord Jesus is the "Bread of heaven". He is the Word of God. Man shall not live by bread alone......
    As a protestant, I recall that Martin Luther had 95 points of difference with the Roman Catholic church. Communion is one of them.
    If an individual is born again, he is already seated in heavenly places in Christ Jesus. That's true whatever denomination a person subscribes to. I dislike labels myself. I've met Roman Catholics who love Jesus and Baptists who are religious nuts to be avoided at all costs. However, I am unable to accept the doctrines of the Roman Catholic church.
     
  5. pdudgeon

    pdudgeon Traditional Catholic

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    Well, you've got part of that right.
    The Eucharist is the body and the blood of Jesus, and what begins as bread and wine is transformed by the Creator into the body and blood of Jesus.

    But if you make the mistake of Judas and do not believe in the ability of Jesus and the transubstantiation from bread and wine to the Body and Blood of Jesus, if you go instead to the Protestant communion, then you will not find what you are seeking, because it is not there.

    The church with a small "c" is not the universal Church created by Jesus, but is the church created by men on earth, who rebelled against what Jesus created for them.
    And preferring their own way, they separated themselves from the One True Church.
    So when the Earth disappears, so will that creation of men.
     
  6. mikeangel

    mikeangel Member

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    I am a cradle Catholic. There are several things about my church I do not agree with. I do not participate in them. I, like Luther, see the differences in scripture and some of the things they teach. But I also see the same in Protestant churches. So I am praying every day, that he himself straightens it out with his infinite power and wisdom, and that his Kingdom come. I see everything from abortion clinics
    being blessed by and an "God loves you no matter what" approach, to those who say if you smoke, drink, divorce, cuss etc. etc, that you are flat out going to hell. I hope he is not far away. I do not want to see my grandkids brought up in this mess. Peace

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...rovides-rare-late-term-abortions-in-bethesda/
     
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  7. Aussie Pete

    Aussie Pete Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Yes. That's one of the reasons why I'm non-denominational.
     
  8. mikeangel

    mikeangel Member

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    You, like I was, was taught this. I do not find any scripture with any process to get him. Just that he said it was him. And I believe it is. I just dont agree with how the RCC believes that they get him. The point of this is, what if it is him without the added ritual?
     
  9. Justasking123

    Justasking123 New Member

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    How would you define the One True Church pdudgeon?
     
  10. mikeangel

    mikeangel Member

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    Do you know of a scripture that supports the "transformed by the Creator" part of communion?
     
  11. tampasteve

    tampasteve Lutheran Messianic Staff Member Supervisor Supporter

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    This is too simplified a view of Protestant theology on the Eucharist. For example, Lutherans believe in the Real Presence and that the Eucharist is literally him, though in a different way than Catholics. But we certainly do not believe it is a memorial meal only. Anglicans to an extent also believe in the Real Presence.
     
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  12. chevyontheriver

    chevyontheriver Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Catholics do not believe everybody else automatically goes to hell for not being Catholic. We share the same baptism with Protestants and the Orthodox. But then there are Protestants and Orthodox who don't accept baptism done by Catholics.
    There are HUGE differences between Protestants over Communion, from almost Catholic positions by some Lutherans to those groups that simply do not have that particular sacrament at all (Salvation Army for example).
    It is not a 'Catholic only' thing, for Catholics recognize this also in the Orthodox Churches.
    Again, Protestants are all over the map on this.
     
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  13. pdudgeon

    pdudgeon Traditional Catholic

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    Yep. Genesis, where everything is created. and the words of Jesus in the Gospels when He says "This is my body, this is my blood."

    When the Protestants claim that their Communion is only a symbol, they are denying the creative ability of Christ. Even though the same bible that we read tells of His miracles of giving sight to the blind, healing the sick, raising the dead, all those things they believe. But they stop short when it comes to the transformation of bread to Jesus' body and wine into His blood.

    Also interesting is that they believe Jesus turned water into wine at the wedding celebration at Canna, but He can't turn wine into His blood?

    In Exodus the bible tells us that Moses stuck his rod into the Nile River (water again) and it ran red with blood. But Jesus, the Creator of the whole world can't turn wine into His own blood?

    No student is greater than his teacher, and no prophet is greater than God or Jesus. So if Jesus told His disciples "This is My Body" and "This is my blood" He knew exactly what He was saying.
     
  14. chevyontheriver

    chevyontheriver Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Luther's Ninety-five Theses were very early positions by Luther, mostly about indulgences. About half of them are acceptable to Catholics. I do not recall any of these Theses having to do with Communion. In fact Luther, in his own time, noticed that his views were much more Catholic than many other Protestants holding more symbolic interpretations. It frustrated him greatly.
     
  15. Peter J Barban

    Peter J Barban Well-Known Member

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    I don't know any Protestants who consider the Catholic version of communion a deal-breaker. We have a much greater problem with Papal authority and extra-biblical doctrines.

    The Catholic understanding of communion is just one small example of Protestant concern over biblical doctrine.

    As for going to hell, that is a matter of one's individual faith and relationship in Christ. Neither Catholics nor Protestants get into heaven unless Christ knows them.
     
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  16. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    Actually, most Protestants belong to churches that believe and teach the doctrine of the Real Presence, that it is his body and blood rather than a memorial only.

    Everyone believes that the sacrament/ordinance is a memorial, but Transubstantiation cannot be true and, simultaneously, any of the other beliefs also be true. To believe in Transubstantiation precludes all other beliefs on this subject.

    That's admirable, IMHO. It just needn't be mixed in with a discussion about the nature of bread and wine at Communion. It stands on its own.
     
  17. JohnAshton

    JohnAshton Well-Known Member

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    The One True Christ exists but no one true church, imo.
     
  18. RaymondG

    RaymondG Well-Known Member

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    The more time we spend thinking about which church is the true church, the less time we have to think about getting to know and have a relationship with the true and living God. "For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God."

    One cannot be led by doctrines of man and the Spirit at the same time. We must choose this day, whom we will serve.

    After we Choose God, we can , "Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage"
     
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  19. ViaCrucis

    ViaCrucis Evangelical Catholic of the Augsburg Confession

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    The 95 Theses were an invitation to an open academic debate concerning the controversial practices of the Indulgence sellers such as Johann Tetzel; Luther simultaneously also sent a copy of these, along with a letter, to the Archbiship Albert of Mainz. Not to insult, belittle, attack, or any such thing, but doing what he believed was his Christian duty to his bishop by warning the Archbishop of the abuses happening in Saxony. At the time Luther was convinced that such men were acting on their own, outside of the episcopal authority of Albert. For Luther, he was attempting to defend the honor of the Pope which he believed was being sullied here.

    If one wants to begin to understand where Luther actually begins to formulate some of his theology, one has to look to the 28 Theses of the Heidelberg Disputation, from a year later in 1518.

    The 95 Theses simply aren't all that important for Lutheran theology--because they aren't really all that theological; they were points raised for the purpose of a purely formal academic debate--but which were also used to try and get Albert's attention in the hope that Albert would put an end to such unscrupulous lawlessness.

    The truth is that the Evangelical Reformers didn't have that much to say concerning the Eucharist early on, except when it came to their argument that the Eucharist ought to be given sub utraque specie, under both kinds--the bread and the wine. Where the Reformers had to actually explain what they believed, it was largely to defend themselves from attacks by those making false claims, lumping them in with the "fanatics" (e.g. the Zwinglians); as well as affirming their faith against the fanatics. Which is precisely what we see in the Augsburg Confession (1530),

    "Of the Supper of the Lord they teach that the Body and Blood of Christ are truly present, and are distributed to those who eat the Supper of the Lord; and they reject those that teach otherwise." (Augsburg Confession, Article X)

    As well as the Defense of the Augsburg Confession (aka the Apology), the Formula of Concord, and its Epitome.

    "The Tenth Article has been approved, in which we confess that we believe, that in the Lord's Supper the body and blood of Christ are truly and substantially present, and are truly tendered, with those things which are seen, bread and wine, to those who receive the Sacrament. This belief we constantly defend, as the subject has been carefully examined and considered." (Apology, Article X)

    "We believe, teach, and confess that in the Holy Supper the body and blood of Christ are truly and essentially present, and are truly distributed and received with the bread and wine." (Epitome of the Formula Concord, Article VI.6)

    So on and so forth.

    Further, our Confessions go out of their way to point out that the things we believe and teach are in no way contrary to the Catholic Faith; that we at no time and in no place have repudiated the ancient, historic faith of Christ's holy catholic Church; but rather our concerns centered upon what were seen as novel ideas and novel practices introduced in recent times; and that certain abuses weren't merely outliers, but existed because of bad theology and preaching introduced in recent times. For the Reformers it was never about "Primativism", the false idea that if one simply discards all tradition and re-interpret the Bible our own way that we can recreate the conditions of the ancient, primative church; but was really more about addressing what were seen as very recent additions. Ideas that had been introduced which did not reflect the historic faith of the fathers and ecumenical councils.

    -CryptoLutheran
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2019
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  20. Yeshua HaDerekh

    Yeshua HaDerekh Men can dream of truth, but then cant live with it

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    He said "I will build my CHURCH"...not "Churches"
     
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