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One of the most controversial issues, is the DAY OF WORSHIP

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JIMINZ

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Would you mind translating this into plain English?

Oh, ok

Your wrong!

If what you are claiming applies to you, then so does everything else which was written, beginning from verse 1
 
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mmksparbud

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Oh, ok

Your wrong!

If what you are claiming applies to you, then so does everything else which was written, beginning from verse 1


Isa 58:1 Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet, and shew my people their transgression, and the house of Jacob their sins.
Isa 58:2 Yet they seek me daily, and delight to know my ways, as a nation that did righteousness, and forsook not the ordinance of their God: they ask of me the ordinances of justice; they take delight in approaching to God.
Isa 58:3 Wherefore have we fasted, say they, and thou seest not? wherefore have we afflicted our soul, and thou takest no knowledge? Behold, in the day of your fast ye find pleasure, and exact all your labours.
Isa 58:4 Behold, ye fast for strife and debate, and to smite with the fist of wickedness: ye shall not fast as ye do this day, to make your voice to be heard on high.
Isa 58:5 Is it such a fast that I have chosen? a day for a man to afflict his soul? is it to bow down his head as a bulrush, and to spread sackcloth and ashes under him? wilt thou call this a fast, and an acceptable day to the LORD?
Isa 58:6 Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke?
Isa 58:7 Is it not to deal thy bread to the hungry, and that thou bring the poor that are cast out to thy house? when thou seest the naked, that thou cover him; and that thou hide not thyself from thine own flesh?
Isa 58:8 Then shall thy light break forth as the morning, and thine health shall spring forth speedily: and thy righteousness shall go before thee; the glory of the LORD shall be thy rereward.
Isa 58:9 Then shalt thou call, and the LORD shall answer; thou shalt cry, and he shall say, Here I am. If thou take away from the midst of thee the yoke, the putting forth of the finger, and speaking vanity;
Isa 58:10 And if thou draw out thy soul to the hungry, and satisfy the afflicted soul; then shall thy light rise in obscurity, and thy darkness be as the noonday:
Isa 58:11 And the LORD shall guide thee continually, and satisfy thy soul in drought, and make fat thy bones: and thou shalt be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters fail not.
Isa 58:12 And they that shall be of thee shall build the old waste places: thou shalt raise up the foundations of many generations; and thou shalt be called, The repairer of the breach, The restorer of paths to dwell in.

What about this passage is it that bothers you?
We are discussing the Sabbath, right?
 
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gordonhooker

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Any chance of you telling my boss that
 
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JIMINZ

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Then why did you neglect to include the last two verses?

Isa 58:13,14
13) If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:
14) Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

As far as the verses are concerned nothing about them bothers me.

These are the verses you are claiming apply to you, I asked if all of the other verses applied to you as well.

Do they?
 
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mmksparbud

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Didn't neglect---those verses were the ones I originally quoted!!! Everything in the bible applies to all of us in one way or another. It is the word of God---delete anything and you diminish His word.
 
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JIMINZ

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Therefore my question stands.


You can't cherry pick 1 verse out of the whole Chapter.

If this one verse applies to you, then all of them must as well, or none of them do.

The Chapter is people and time specific.
 
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Alithis

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There are several 7th day Sabbath churches. Post #26 above.
Sure..but over all its a sect.
Makes some good health foods
And 100s of millions of $$ probably.

Add: oh dear i checked.. They drag in about $2BILLION A YEAR
 
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mmksparbud

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Therefore my question stands.



You can't cherry pick 1 verse out of the whole Chapter.

If this one verse applies to you, then all of them must as well, or none of them do.

The Chapter is people and time specific.

As I said---ALL VERSES apply to ALL PEOPLE. You don't cherry pick---which means you do not eliminate any of them. You take them all together. So it all applies to everyone. Question has been answered twice now. The whole bible is the word of God. And it applies to everyone. God speaks to everyone, not just to one individual. Lessons from the bible are to be applied to everyone. The chapters and verses may, at times, be time and people specific--but the principles applied are for all people and all time. The Sabbath is for all time and all people and this is how we are to honor God.
The 10 commandments were written on stone, not paper, by Jesus Himself---the Levitical laws were written on paper by Moses. Those are the laws that were nailed to the cross--you can't nail stone to anything. On stone is permanent--paper is not. That is why the scrolls were kept outside the Ark, but the commandments were kept inside the Ark--the Ark represents the very throne of God.
Again, just state the verse where Jesus said the 1st day of the week is now the Sabbath.
 
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Radagast

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Is the reason that the church meets once a week simply to meet once a week? That is, simply to continue in fellowship? Is there any biblical command for this?

We do it to remember the resurrection and to continue the Old Testament commands to rest every seven days.

Passages like Acts of the Apostles 20:7 and 1 Corinthians 16:2 indicate that the early church also met on Sundays.
 
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W2L

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Passages like Acts of the Apostles 20:7 and 1 Corinthians 16:2 indicate that the early church also met on Sundays.
Doesnt this scripture indicate that the church met daily?

Acts 2:46 Day by day continuing with one mind in the temple, and breaking bread [e]from house to house, they were taking their [f]meals together with gladness and [g]sincerity of heart,
 
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DamianWarS

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Sabbath is not a day for worship in the traditional sense it is a day for rest. so regardless if you continue to keep the sabbath the values behind it still and will always be about resting. I know "resting" itself can be a form of worship but corporate worship is what we are talking about not personal contemplative worship. I'm not sure why you would try and force corporate worship on the sabbath when doing so may actually be counterproductive to its focus of rest especially when it is so easily and widely accepted on Sunday. Do you dishonor the Sabbath by engaging in corporate worship on Sunday? Do you dishonor it by not engaging in corporate worship during the Sabbath? I can't see why those would possibly do that.
 
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PaulCyp1

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The Sabbath was and still is the Jewish day of worship. When the Messiah came 2,000 years ago, He founded a new Church that was not subject to the rules and regulations of Judaism. That Church has its own authority, since Jesus Christ told its first leadership "Whatsoever you bind upon Earth is bound in Heaven". The leadership of that one Church agreed that it was more fitting to celebrate worship on the day of Jesus Christ's glorious Resurrection than on the day He lay dead in the tomb. And Christians have been worshipping on Sunday ever since.
 
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ace of hearts

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I agree the Pharisees had the wrong idea about the sabbath. Is the Son of man (Jesus) only Lord of or on the sabbath? Attending religious activities isn't proof of keeping a day holy. Personally I think you fail to read what Isa 66:23 actually says. The verse only co-notes continuous activity and nothing more. There are real problems here, since no one keeps the 4th commandment as it's written in Exodus 20. Who is the "them" in your verse? I don't believe you understand the above verse. Can you kindly tell us what a servant is? You keep saying "we." Who is this "we?" How do we help others on the sabbath without working? Can you provide some examples? Aren't you saying all those who have had the law made known to them are obligated to the law? Wait, but you seem to say pagans aren't obligated to the law. Does that mean only "Christians" are obligated to the law? You did mention Romans in your post. Have you by chance read 7:6 yet?
 
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bling

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Sabbath Worship

I fully believe we should all keep all Sabbaths, but can never get answers from those that believe in Saturday worship only the answers to my questions:


1. Is a Sabbath a Saturday or is Saturday a Sabbath with other days also Sabbaths like: Passover and the day of Atonement and every day in the year of Jubilee?

2. Are Christians today to be like the regular Jews of the Old Testament or are we to be like the priestly tribe of the Old Testament?

3. Are Christians today to be that nation of priests (Ex. 19:6, 1 Peter 2:9) and not just a Jewish like nation?

4. Did the Priests offer up even more sacrifices and were they doing more worshipping activities (some might describe as work) on the Sabbaths? If so were the Priests keeping the Sabbath Rest?

5. Is worship to God ever “work” by God’s definition?

6. We know van worship is offering up to God obedience to man’s commands, so could righteous worship be the offering up to God, obedience to God’s commands?

7. If Christians are Priests, the temple of God, carrying the altar with them (cross), and constantly offering up themselves as a living sacrifice then: when are Christians not worshipping and should they ever stop?

8. Did Christ expand the Old Testament commands to include our thoughts and lots more actions?

9. For the Priests what is the Sabbath Rest and so what is the Sabbath Rest to be for Christians?

10. Some of the Jewish scholars prior to Christ seemed to have discussed (records are not perfect on this) that there was a coming “Age of Jubilee”, do you see that description fitting the Christian Dispensation we are part of now?

I think the priests did follow the Sabbath Rest since “worship” is not work and the priests were to worship and not work all the time (the other Jews were to support them). By increasing the commands on Christians and providing a constant partner (the Spirit), Christian’s today can be in constant worship as long as what you are doing is in obedience to God’s commands and that obedience is offered up as worship, so we are in the Sabbath Rest. To suggest today we just do “Sabbath Rest” one day a week is also to suggest the other 6 days are ours?
 
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ace of hearts

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Ah, Charles Clever (author of your link) has all the marks of an SDA evangelist. So I wonder about the influence on Maniilaq. You do seem to be presenting this as some unrelated outside source for proof of your position. It's very interesting what is accepted and what is rejected when it comes to support of the sabbath. The claim of the RCC is a false claim as secular (non Scriptural) will easily reveal. This quote doesn't support your imported idea.
What God has instituted, no man has the power to change. Jesus instituted it, He alone can change it and never did.
Catholic Church Changed Sabbath To Sunday Statements
Man doesn't have to, because God did.
 
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bekkilyn

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The biggest, most exhausting, and most stressful work day for pastors and others in church leadership is the weekly day of worship, which is Saturday for SDA along with the other 7th day groups. Does this mean that their pastors NEVER get a sabbath day of rest? There is really no comparison here with the Levite priests since their duties were very different and early Christian church leaders did not take on every single pastoral role at once, but had things divided up by teachers, preachers, diaconal ministers, etc. Our current day pastors are often responsible for all of these different roles and often work ALL day on worship day between church, youth group activities, bible studies, special lunches/dinners, etc.

I don't in any way understand how the above is restful, not to mention all the sabbatarians who strenuously work all day in the medical fields because somehow medical people are allowed to make an income by "doing good" on the sabbath. When do these people get a real sabbath day?
 
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blackhead

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There are many factors to consider when it comes to this debate.

1. The scriptures clearly state that we are not under the law. Consider passages such as Acts of the Apostles 15, Colossians 2:14, and Romans 6:14.

2. The writings of the ECF confirm that the Sabbath was abolished and that worship should be on Sunday: Sabbath or Sunday? | Catholic Answers

3. The writings of Paul seem to confirm that the Sabbath has been abolished: Colossians 2:16 and Romans 14:5.

4. The book of Hebrews seems to describe a new rest that we have entered in Christ: Hebrews 4:1-11.
 
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mmksparbud

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Ah, Charles Clever (author of your link) has all the marks of an SDA evangelist. So I wonder about the influence on Maniilaq. You do seem to be presenting this as some unrelated outside source for proof of your position.

LOL! I thought that the article had the fact that when the white's came in--Catholic missionaries and heard about Maniilaq, they thought it was Sunday. They were the ones that originally found out about him. Then they discovered it was the 7th day Sabbath--so the story did not originate with us. When we heard about it, we send some missionaries over.


And your prove?
 
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mmksparbud

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mmksparbud

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1. Is a Sabbath a Saturday or is Saturday a Sabbath with other days also Sabbaths like: Passover and the day of Atonement and every day in the year of Jubilee?

All Jewish festive days were called sabbaths--but there is only one The Sabbath day.

1. The scriptures clearly state that we are not under the law. Consider passages such as Acts of the Apostles 15, Colossians 2:14, and Romans 6:14.



Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

The only handwritten ordinances were those that Moses wrote on scrolls as dictated by God---the 10 commandments were written by the hand of God on stone -- you can nail paper to a cross, you can't stone. Paper is temporary, stone is permanent, the ordinances were kept outside the Ark, the 10 on stone were kept inside the Ark, the Ark represented the throne of God.

Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.



2. The writings of the ECF confirm that the Sabbath was abolished and that worship should be on Sunday: Sabbath or Sunday? | Catholic Answers

Yes--exactly---the Catholic church abolished the 7th day Sabbath--Jesus did not. What God has set aside as Holy no man can set aside or replace. It is God that makes anything Holy, man can not make anything Holy. What God has written with His hand on stone, no man can erase.


3. The writings of Paul seem to confirm that the Sabbath has been abolished: Colossians 2:16 and Romans 14:5.

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come;
but the body is of Christ.

Paul did not say "or of the Sabbath day." He said "sabbath day" :he was talking bout the Jewish feast days--also called sabbath's. And The Sabbath was never a shadow of things to come, it has always pointed back to creation itself and to God as that creator "Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made. It was the ordinances and sacrifices that were a shadow of things to come.

om 14:15 But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.
Don't know how that connects to the Sabbath.

4. The book of Hebrews seems to describe a new rest that we have entered in Christ: Hebrews 4:1-11.

eb 4:7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
Heb 4:8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
Heb 4:11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Jesus never spoke of any other day of rest. We rest in Jesus works now, not our own. This does not in any way do away with a commandment of God written by His own hand on stone.
 
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