One last question

fishyjoe

Active Member
Dec 23, 2016
146
26
50
Queensland, Australia
✟9,810.00
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Private
When the planes hit the world trade center on September 11.
Didn't the Muslim extremists believe they were doing God's will.

Now in the mind's of every devoted Muslim (Extremist or not) is Allah evil or good?

He would be good to them, but to Christian's wouldn't Allah be a high demon and therefore evil?

Now flip the question.

In the mind's of the devoted Christian, the father, son and holy spirit is also good.

Regardless of your own extremists Yahweh is still perfectly good.

So is one believer killing another over their belief of goodness?

Are the good killing the good?
 

Ken Rank

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jan 12, 2014
7,218
5,563
Winchester, KENtucky
✟308,985.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
When the planes hit the world trade center on September 11.
Didn't the Muslim extremists believe they were doing God's will.

Now in the mind's of every devoted Muslim (Extremist or not) is Allah evil or good?

He would be good to them, but to Christian's wouldn't Allah be a high demon and therefore evil?

Now flip the question.

In the mind's of the devoted Christian, the father, son and holy spirit is also good.

Regardless of your own extremists Yahweh is still perfectly good.

So is one believer killing another over their belief of goodness?

Are the good killing the good?
How one represents "god" doesn't always reflect His character or reputation. There have been white Christians, for example, who have killed Jews, blacks or others because of their skewed view of Scripture. Just as there have been Muslims who have killed non-Muslims based on their skewed view of the Quran. I can find you people who can take Paul's writings and justify drunkeness or sleeping around but does that truly represent Paul or God for that matter?

We are known by our fruit... but that fruit is not so much our work in dealing with others... but rather the fruit of the Spirit dwelling in us. If the fruit of the Spirit is love, peace, joy, patience, long suffering, etc..... then this should be prevalent in our lives as well and if it isn't, we are not reflecting the one we claim to serve and thus stand as a poor representation of Him.
 
Upvote 0

Soyeong

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2015
12,433
4,605
Hudson
✟284,422.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Single
When the planes hit the world trade center on September 11.
Didn't the Muslim extremists believe they were doing God's will.

Now in the mind's of every devoted Muslim (Extremist or not) is Allah evil or good?

He would be good to them, but to Christian's wouldn't Allah be a high demon and therefore evil?

Now flip the question.

In the mind's of the devoted Christian, the father, son and holy spirit is also good.

Regardless of your own extremists Yahweh is still perfectly good.

So is one believer killing another over their belief of goodness?

Are the good killing the good?

The is an issue of whether people who kill in the name of their religion are acting according to what their religion teaches. In the OT, God commanded people to be killed, but it was as a specific act of judgement because of the wicked things that the people had done, not simply because they weren't followers of God. Moreover, the primary purpose was to disperse them, and it was the people who would not flee who were killed. Conversely, Muslims are directed by the Quran to kill infidels, so when they do that they are acting both according to the Quran and according to the example that Muhammad set for them.

We all only do what we think is good and nobody does what they think is bad, so you could say that every conflict, religious or not, is over differences in belief of goodness. But how do you know that your belief about what is good is correct?
 
Upvote 0

fishyjoe

Active Member
Dec 23, 2016
146
26
50
Queensland, Australia
✟9,810.00
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Private
Only someone who is completely insane would believe that killing innocent people is good, regardless of the reason. "Allah" is not the true God.
But they're not doing it because they think Allah is evil, but good.

Who doesn't do what they believe a good God tells them.
 
Upvote 0

fishyjoe

Active Member
Dec 23, 2016
146
26
50
Queensland, Australia
✟9,810.00
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Private
How one represents "god" doesn't always reflect His character or reputation. There have been white Christians, for example, who have killed Jews, blacks or others because of their skewed view of Scripture. Just as there have been Muslims who have killed non-Muslims based on their skewed view of the Quran. I can find you people who can take Paul's writings and justify drunkeness or sleeping around but does that truly represent Paul or God for that matter?

We are known by our fruit... but that fruit is not so much our work in dealing with others... but rather the fruit of the Spirit dwelling in us. If the fruit of the Spirit is love, peace, joy, patience, long suffering, etc..... then this should be prevalent in our lives as well and if it isn't, we are not reflecting the one we claim to serve and thus stand as a poor representation of Him.
Without knowing exact goodness or evil, you most likely be making up whatever you want.
 
Upvote 0

fishyjoe

Active Member
Dec 23, 2016
146
26
50
Queensland, Australia
✟9,810.00
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Private
The is an issue of whether people who kill in the name of their religion are acting according to what their religion teaches. In the OT, God commanded people to be killed, but it was as a specific act of judgement because of the wicked things that the people had done, not simply because they weren't followers of God. Moreover, the primary purpose was to disperse them, and it was the people who would not flee who were killed. Conversely, Muslims are directed by the Quran to kill infidels, so when they do that they are acting both according to the Quran and according to the example that Muhammad set for them.

We all only do what we think is good and nobody does what they think is bad, so you could say that every conflict, religious or not, is over differences in belief of goodness. But how do you know that your belief about what is good is correct?
I don't, so I don't try to be good or evil.
 
Upvote 0

Ken Rank

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jan 12, 2014
7,218
5,563
Winchester, KENtucky
✟308,985.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Without knowing exact goodness or evil, you most likely be making up whatever you want.
Agreed... but at this point in history, where we have instant access to the world through the internet, we can no longer claim ignorance. We all know flying a jet into a building (whoever really did it, not my point) is wrong... and those that did it in the name of Allah I would think represented a bastardized version of Allah. But, I don't study Islam to any great length, I simply spend my time on the God of Israel whose character attributes I listed in my last post. :)
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

singpraise

Active Member
Dec 2, 2016
318
345
US
✟18,519.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
But they're not doing it because they think Allah is evil, but good.

Who doesn't do what they believe a good God tells them.

Unless a person is mentally ill they obviously know murder of innocents is wrong and evil.

If a "god" tells you to kill innocent people then rest assured it is not a voice/religion/text you should obey. Humans innately know that murder of innocents, among other things, is wrong. Denying that innate inner knowing of evil and good, and carrying out the evil act stating it is good is what is known as blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, and will send a person to hell.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: KWCrazy
Upvote 0

fishyjoe

Active Member
Dec 23, 2016
146
26
50
Queensland, Australia
✟9,810.00
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Private
Unless a person is mentally ill they obviously know murder of innocents is wrong and evil.

If a "god" tells you to kill innocent people then rest assured it is not a voice/religion/text you should obey. Humans innately know that murder of innocents, among other things, is wrong. Denying that innate inner knowing of evil and good, and carrying out the evil act stating it is good is what is known as blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, and will send a person to hell.
Innocent? Who's innocent.
 
Upvote 0

singpraise

Active Member
Dec 2, 2016
318
345
US
✟18,519.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Innocent? Who's innocent.

Anyone who is just living their life in that moment and not causing harm to others is innocent. Like people doing their Christmas shopping in Germany. Or attending a festival in Nice. Or working in their office in Paris. Or celebrating the New Year with their friends in a club in Istanbul. Or simply walking down the street minding their own business practically anywhere in the world.

I can go on. And on. All of these killings, in the name of "Allah," are demonic and evil in nature. And the victims are all innocent!
 
  • Agree
Reactions: KWCrazy
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

TurtleAnne

Active Member
Dec 25, 2016
331
299
Michigan U.S.
✟20,919.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
OP, why not just read the Bible for yourself, and any other religious texts that interest you, such as perhaps the Quran. See what the texts actually say, instead of focusing on what humans say.

It is better to read it for yourself, because there is so much disinformation about it out there, from outright lies to distortions and things taken out of context, and so on. I'm not going to speak for Islam, but I will speak on behalf of my views in regards to Christianity.

In the Bible, the OT and NT together, which are the scriptures of Christianity, it is made super clear, especially in the NT, that the term known by most as "Jews" refers to all disciples of Christ, not a group of people based on ethnicity/genetics and certainly not a religion that actually rejects Jesus. But you will have to look this up for yourself, because trying to explain it usually gets one shouted down, which is ironically unsurprising. I made a post now long ago just giving scripture references on the topic, and now it seems my post was mysteriously deleted. So again, look it up yourself and read the verses for yourself.

Then the Bible spells it out plain as day in Revelation 2:9, which remember, is not referring to an ethnic group, but to those who claim to be disciples of Christ but actually reject Christ's teachings and instead act out with hatred, deceit and other forms of wickedness, hence coming from Satan's influence. This should be completely obvious to anyone when reading that verse, but hey.

There is so much smoke and mirrors all over it that you will simply have to do your own research and reading to understand it fully. But if you do, and then you understand Rev 2:9, then you can see that even God is fully aware that there will be people who self-herald as being His followers, yet who are nothing of the sort, and this certainly includes any cases of so-called Christians who go on murdering sprees and claim that it is "good" and that it is what God wanted. They might fool some people like you, before you read for yourself, but they don't fool God.

And furthermore, you wouldn't have to turn to any of these explanations in the Bible in order to draw the same conclusions for yourself if you simply read the Gospels, as well. If you read the Gospels and form your own understanding of Jesus, the quality of His character is very consistent and straightforward, in that He is very patient, merciful, gentle, loving and so on, and He would have NEVER condoned homicidal rampages in God's name. There is NO way.

I don't, so I don't try to be good or evil.

Moral nihilists like yourself fall into one of two categories:

1. Psychopaths

2. Internet edgelords who think they are very wise and clever, but fall apart real fast in person when asked to explain that they can't know if raping a baby to death is truly wrong or not.

So first you have to determine which category you fall into. Are you a psychopath, or do you acknowledge that we can all inherently know that raping a baby to death is wrong? If the latter, then once you acknowledge that we can know one thing is wrong, then you have established for yourself that humans can inherently know when something is wrong. Then all you need to do is combine with your understanding of Jesus' quality of character (after reading it for yourself), and then combine that with Rev 2:9, and bam congratulations, you understand that God actually is good, some humans tell terrible lies while doing terrible things, and God knows it.
 
Upvote 0

fishyjoe

Active Member
Dec 23, 2016
146
26
50
Queensland, Australia
✟9,810.00
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Private
OP, why not just read the Bible for yourself, and any other religious texts that interest you, such as perhaps the Quran. See what the texts actually say, instead of focusing on what humans say.

It is better to read it for yourself, because there is so much disinformation about it out there, from outright lies to distortions and things taken out of context, and so on. I'm not going to speak for Islam, but I will speak on behalf of my views in regards to Christianity.

In the Bible, the OT and NT together, which are the scriptures of Christianity, it is made super clear, especially in the NT, that the term known by most as "Jews" refers to all disciples of Christ, not a group of people based on ethnicity/genetics and certainly not a religion that actually rejects Jesus. But you will have to look this up for yourself, because trying to explain it usually gets one shouted down, which is ironically unsurprising. I made a post now long ago just giving scripture references on the topic, and now it seems my post was mysteriously deleted. So again, look it up yourself and read the verses for yourself.

Then the Bible spells it out plain as day in Revelation 2:9, which remember, is not referring to an ethnic group, but to those who claim to be disciples of Christ but actually reject Christ's teachings and instead act out with hatred, deceit and other forms of wickedness, hence coming from Satan's influence. This should be completely obvious to anyone when reading that verse, but hey.

There is so much smoke and mirrors all over it that you will simply have to do your own research and reading to understand it fully. But if you do, and then you understand Rev 2:9, then you can see that even God is fully aware that there will be people who self-herald as being His followers, yet who are nothing of the sort, and this certainly includes any cases of so-called Christians who go on murdering sprees and claim that it is "good" and that it is what God wanted. They might fool some people like you, before you read for yourself, but they don't fool God.

And furthermore, you wouldn't have to turn to any of these explanations in the Bible in order to draw the same conclusions for yourself if you simply read the Gospels, as well. If you read the Gospels and form your own understanding of Jesus, the quality of His character is very consistent and straightforward, in that He is very patient, merciful, gentle, loving and so on, and He would have NEVER condoned homicidal rampages in God's name. There is NO way.



Moral nihilists like yourself fall into one of two categories:

1. Psychopaths

2. Internet edgelords who think they are very wise and clever, but fall apart real fast in person when asked to explain that they can't know if raping a baby to death is truly wrong or not.

So first you have to determine which category you fall into. Are you a psychopath, or do you acknowledge that we can all inherently know that raping a baby to death is wrong? If the latter, then once you acknowledge that we can know one thing is wrong, then you have established for yourself that humans can inherently know when something is wrong. Then all you need to do is combine with your understanding of Jesus' quality of character (after reading it for yourself), and then combine that with Rev 2:9, and bam congratulations, you understand that God actually is good, some humans tell terrible lies while doing terrible things, and God knows it.
Yahweh has killed babies, Yahweh has visited curses and tormentors upon his own people, Yahweh has burnt and stoned people, yeah read the bible you say, God is love you say, yeah...what...ever...
 
Upvote 0

fishyjoe

Active Member
Dec 23, 2016
146
26
50
Queensland, Australia
✟9,810.00
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Private
Anyone who is just living their life in that moment and not causing harm to others is innocent. Like people doing their Christmas shopping in Germany. Or attending a festival in Nice. Or working in their office in Paris. Or celebrating the New Year with their friends in a club in Istanbul. Or simply walking down the street minding their own business practically anywhere in the world.

I can go on. And on. All of these killings, in the name of "Allah," are demonic and evil in nature. And the victims are all innocent!
And I thought your God said "All have fallen short" and "In my mother's womb, I was conceived in sin"

I guess all these innocent people being blown up are Children under the age of 9?

Unless there all Christians being blown up, cozz the rest can go straight to HELL!

Mewhahaha!
 
Upvote 0

Soyeong

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2015
12,433
4,605
Hudson
✟284,422.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Single
Yahweh has killed babies, Yahweh has visited curses and tormentors upon his own people, Yahweh has burnt and stoned people, yeah read the bible you say, God is love you say, yeah...what...ever...

Why do you look at instances of people being judged as examples of love and ignore everything else?
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums