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Discussion in 'Discipleship: Following Jesus' started by ~Zao~, Oct 21, 2019.

  1. ~Zao~

    ~Zao~ Wisdom’s child Supporter

    I posted this first on another forum no longer frequented and posted it on this forum too, to dig up another dinosaur ... nobody seemed to care then and I doubt they do now, yet it bears repeating that what is being overcome is not God, or the next door neighbour, but satan in all his ignobleness. I haven’t even reread it but here it is nonetheless.

    1 Corinthians 2:12
    Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
    Romans 8:15
    For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.​

    Binding and Loosing

    To bind means to condemn, and to loose means to forgive. Binding satan’s influence over self looses the freedom of forgiveness provided at the cross Matthew 6:10, Revelation 11:15, Matthew 4:17, Romans 16:20 and is the meaning of the power of dominion. ‘For greater is He that is in you than he that is in the world.’

    Matthew 18:18
    Truly I say to you, Whatever you bind on the earth shall have been bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on the earth shall have been loosed in heaven.
    John 20:23
    Whosever sins you forgive, they are forgiven them; and whosever sins you retain, they are retained.​

    The Lord's way of condemning allows for one's own words and thoughts to do the condemning. Genesis 38:26, Ezekiel 36:31, Matthew 26:25

    Only the sinless Lord was fit to condemn the woman caught in adultery and He refused to. John 8:1-11, Jeremiah 17:13. It makes me wonder if the power to bind and lose won't end up being a test upon the church and us as individuals because of being a test of Jesus' authority when He forgave the man lifted down thru the ceiling. The Pharisees sought to condemn Him because "only God can forgive sins" Luke 5:17-26

    John 16:8
    And when He comes, He will convict the world concerning sin and concerning righteousness and concerning …​

    In conviction people condemn themselves. But it is God who forgives thru the accepted work of Christ Jesus. The bible says to basically forgive everyone everything or we will not be forgiven ourselves. That includes forgiving oneself for our own safekeeping. On earth as it is in heaven.

    1 Corinthians 4:5
    So then do not judge anything before the time, until the Lord comes, who will both bring to light the hidden things of darkness and make manifest the counsels of the hearts, and then there will be praise to each from God.
    1 John 3:20
    Because if our heart blames us, it is because God is greater than our heart and knows all things.​

    Directly following the verse of sins forgiven or retained, Jesus made the point of saying ’blessed are they that believe without seeing' referring to Thomas's confession of 'my Lord and my God' John 20:24-29.

    Can there be salvation apart from that belief I wonder?

    "Don’t be faithless any longer. Believe!” “My Lord and my God!” Thomas exclaimed. Then Jesus told him, “You believe because you have seen me. Blessed are those who believe without seeing me.”

    Belief that leads to a glorious life. Not w/o trials but is of the inheritance 1 Peter 1:4, 7 The spiritual world of the invisible is as real as any material thing. In fact that which is seem is merely a shadow of reality.

    1 Peter 1:8
    Though you have not seen him, you love him; and even though you do not see him now, you believe in him and are filled with an inexpressible and glorious joy.​

    In the final analysis my stand must be with that which took place outside the camp, where the innocent, the neglected and those silenced by death are gathered together. ..Where Jesus suffered and died. Hebrews 13:12-16, Exodus 33:1-11

    Hebrews 13:10
    We have an altar from which those who serve at the tabernacle have no right to eat.
    Joshua 22:28
    And if they will say so, they shall answer them: Behold the altar of the Lord, which our fathers made, not for holocausts, nor for sacrifice, but for a testimony between us and you.​

    As the red heifer that purified outside the camp so is Christ Jesus. Hebrews 10:12

    Moses was not a prophet but he was one to whom God spoke with face to face. Speaking against him brought about a leprose condition for His Holy Name’s sake Ezekiel 36:23 After all prophets merely heard from God in dreams and visions and not in face to face encounters where God shone on him in transformation glory. God dealt with him directly as Moses was beholding and reflecting God. Numbers 12:8, Hebrews 3:5, Revelation 21:11, Revelation 21:23-24, Proverbs 25:12

    The first healing performed by Jesus was to heal the leper, “Lord,”he said, “if you are willing, you can heal me and make me clean.”Jesus reached out and touched him. “I am willing,” he said. “Be healed!” The unclean outside the camp are willingly brought nigh to Him. Lepers knew that the willing Jesus could cleanse them but the priests wouldn’t have thought so. Them, as professional diagnosers, declaring the leper clean was giving an expert eyewitness account to the authenticity of the miracle. Romans 12:1, 2 Corinthians 5:17

    Matthew 10:8
    Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse lepers, cast out demons. You received without paying; give without pay.
    2 Corinthians 7:1
    Since we have these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from every defilement of body and spirit, bringing holiness to completion in the fear of God​

    With the image of God exercising dominion over the enemy of God, God Himself completes His rest, we find our rest, and the rest is yet to come. Hosea 2:21-23, Matthew 6:33

    2 Corinthians 3:18.
    "And we all with unveiled face, beholding and reflecting as a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, even as from the Lord Spirit.”​

    The Lord Jesus said, "Truly I say to you, There are some of those standing here who shall by no means taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom. And after six days Jesus takes with Him Peter and James and John his brother, and brings them up into a high mountain apart. And He was transfigured before them, and His face shone as the sun, and His garments became white as the light."

    Simply, beholding and reflecting ‘as in a mirror’ at the transformative figure of Christ , heaven finds it’s way to earth and death and the grave are swallowed in victory in a new creation’s life.
    We teamed up with Faith Counseling. Can they help you today?
  2. johnlxyz

    johnlxyz New Member Supporter

    United States
    Zao posted:

    To bind means to condemn, and to loose means to forgive.

    I hesitated at the beginning of Zao’s post. “to bind means to condemn” seemed befuddling, because IMO it has to do with personal forgiveness than with dominion power to forgive or condemn. From an article:

    What Does Matthew 18:15-20 Actually Mean?


    These instructions by Jesus on how to bring correction and forgiveness are directed specifically to Christian individuals, “If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone” (Matthew 18:15).

    This is so important because often times people feel Matthew 18:15-20 should always be used to correct any Christian living in sin even if their sin was not directly against you.

    Nowhere in Matthew 18:15-20 does Jesus deny the reality of relationships. While forgiveness is commanded, God does not expect Christians to forget that damage was done and act the same before the offense occurred. When possible this should happen. But it is impossible to think that a wound can be instantly healed all the time. Forgiveness can be given in a moment, but sometimes it just takes time for the heart the relationship to heal.
    end of excerpts

    These excerpts indicate that “to bind” and “to loose” in Matthew 10 refers more to good individual relationships, not dominion. I agree with Zao in this paragraph in which he emphasizes that only Jesus can truly forgive:

    Even here, I wonder about comparing our forgiveness of others with Jesus’ authority to forgive.
  3. ~Zao~

    ~Zao~ Wisdom’s child Supporter

    I refer to the legal binding of the law. Loosing from the law’s binding by means of graceful forgiveness.
    That sounds more like binding and loosening of wounds, which is a part of loving one another but my analogy may go further toward loving self so that one can love another.

    I said:
    You said
    That’s your analogy. My analogy says don’t make friends with satan.
  4. aiki

    aiki Regular Member

    Well, the Bible tells me that I have three Enemies to overcome (Ephesians 2:1-3; James 3:15):

    - the World (Romans 12:2, 1 Corinthians 3:19; Colossians 2:8; James 1:27; James 4:4; 1 John 2:15)
    - the Flesh (Romans 8:5-8; Romans 8:13; Romans 13:14; 2 Corinthians 7:1; Galatians 5:16-17, etc.)
    - the devil (Ephesians 4:27; Ephesians 6:11; 2 Timothy 2:26; James 4:7, etc.).

    Upon what do you base this assertion?

    The Christian has no need to "bind Satan." For the born-again believer, the devil is an already defeated foe (Colossians 2:15; 1 John 3:8; 1 Corinthians 15:57; 2 Corinthians 10:4, Hebrews 2:14). At the cross, Christ was victorious over Satan and rendered him powerless in the life of every believer. This is why the Bible never instructs believers to "bind Satan." Now, the devil can still tempt the believer, which is why they must resist him (James 4:7); but no believer is under bondage to the devil, as they were before they were saved. In Christ, the devil may be successfully withstood and overcome by all children of God. This is not true of the lost who "are taken captive by him (the devil) at his will." (2 Timothy 2:26)

    I would also point out that the Bible teaches us that Self, the "old man" Paul called it, has been crucified with Christ and so rendered powerless in the life of the believer. (Romans 6:1-18; Galatians 2:20; Galatians 5:24, etc) We are not told to bind Satan's influence over Self in Scripture, but to "reckon" by faith our co-crucifixion with Christ an accomplished fact (Romans 6:11). There is nothing for the believer to do but trust that the "old man" has been dealt with by God through the sacrificial death of His Son.

    These promises were made specifically to Christ's disciples. And they were made before Christ had died at Calvary and the coming of the Spirit at Pentecost. Believers on the other side of Calvary cannot legitimately claim these verses for themselves. They simply don't apply.

    Genesis 38:26 says nothing about "the Lord's way of condemning," or about one's own words and thoughts condemning one's self on behalf of the Lord. We are all convicted by our own conscience given to us by God and by the Holy Spirit who "convicts the World of sin." (John 16:8)

    People may admit they have done wrong, but more often than not the lost person, in particular, refuses to do so (John 3:20). And this is why God must act to convict them of their wrongdoing and "give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth." (2 Timothy 2:25)

    Well, hang on. We have no right to condemn a person to hell but we most certainly ought to condemn wicked behaviour. We see the writers of the New Testament doing this all throughout their various epistles to the Early Church. Read 1 Corinthians 5 for a very stark and severe example of this.

    No believer has the power to forgive sins after the manner of God. We are indwelt by the Holy Spirit but this does not make us God any more than breathing air and having our bodies entirely infused with it through our blood makes us oxygen molecules. Even though I have the Holy Spirit within me, I cannot create and sustain a universe, nor can I die for the sins of all mankind, nor will I sit and judge all on the Last Day. I am not omniscient, nor omnipresent, nor all-powerful. I have put on Christ, but this no more makes me Christ than putting on a bear-skin coat makes me a bear.

    Yes, God forgives us as a consequence of Christ's atoning work at Calvary. Amen.

    I don't know what you mean by "forgiving one's self for our own safekeeping." It isn't what we do that is important to our salvation but what God has and will do. This binding and loosing business makes you entirely too prominent in your walk with God. He's the Big Deal, not us.

    Not if one wants to remain biblical in their Christian doctrine.

    "Heaven finds its way to earth" through the believer beholding and reflecting Christ? That isn't at all what 2 Corinthians 3:18 says. God is not the least dependent upon us in what He chooses to do on earth. He doesn't need our beholding and reflecting Christ to find His way to our planet and to act upon it. Just read the Bible. It is filled with God acting just as He pleases among us.