LDS One Essence

Jamesone5

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So is God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit of the same substance or not? The substance of Jesus Christ is a resurrected body of flesh and bone.

You defy you own Sacrament which obviously you utter without even understanding it.

What did Jesus Christ give up for us?

Answer

His body and His blood.

Luke 22:19 (NKJV)
19 And He took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, “This is My body which is given for you;do this in remembrance of Me.”

The substance of Jesus Christ is a resurrected body of flesh and bone---He is the Way

1 Timothy 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory

Obviously it is this great mystery of godliness to the undelighted Mormons how the One God can be manifested in the flesh and seen by angels.
 
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He is the way

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Not what is meant by the term "substance" here.

Christ, as both God and man, has two essences/substances/natures: God and man.

Christ's humanity is human, "of a rational soul and body" as put forward by the Council of Chalcedon. Thus He is consubstantial with us in our humanity, and He is consubstantial with the Father in His Divinity.

Jesus, as God, is homoousios with the Father, consubstantial. Thus He is God even as the Father is God.

As a human being, yes, He has flesh and bones. Having a solid body of human flesh is part of what makes Him human. Just as having a human soul, a human mind, and a human will are all parts of His humanity, all contributing to what it means for Him to be human just like us.

-CryptoLutheran
He has a resurrected body of flesh and bone, but He is not human. He is perfected:

(New Testament | Luke 13:32)

32 And he said unto them, Go ye, and tell that fox, Behold, I cast out devils, and I do cures to day and to morrow, and the third day I shall be perfected.
 
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He is the way

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You defy you own Sacrament which obviously you utter without even understanding it.

What did Jesus Christ give up for us?

Answer

His body and His blood.

Luke 22:19 (NKJV)
19 And He took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, “This is My body which is given for you;do this in remembrance of Me.”

The substance of Jesus Christ is a resurrected body of flesh and bone---He is the Way

1 Timothy 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory

Obviously it is this great mystery of godliness to the undelighted Mormons how the One God can be manifested in the flesh and seen by angels.
There is only one way to know God:

(New Testament | 1 John 2:4 - 6)

4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
 
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Jamesone5

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There is only one way to know God:

(New Testament | 1 John 2:4 - 6)

4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

John 17:3
And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

And

1 Timothy 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory


Seems Mormons do not know God, nor Christ as That True God.
 
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He is the way

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John 17:3
And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

And

1 Timothy 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory


Seems Mormons do not know God, nor Christ as That True God.
(Book of Mormon | 2 Nephi 31:21)

21 And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen.
 
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Jamesone5

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(Book of Mormon | 2 Nephi 31:21)

21 And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen.
False scripture
 
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Andrewn

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(Book of Mormon | 2 Nephi 31:21)

21 And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen.
I haven't read the entire BoM but the portions I read seem to teach Trinitarian doctrine. Do you agree that that perspective was modified later in the D&C and other teachings?
 
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ViaCrucis

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He has a resurrected body of flesh and bone, but He is not human. He is perfected:

(New Testament | Luke 13:32)

32 And he said unto them, Go ye, and tell that fox, Behold, I cast out devils, and I do cures to day and to morrow, and the third day I shall be perfected.

Your repeatedly demonstrated ignorance of the meaning of this passage aside, yes, Christ is very much human. The fact that He has a resurrected body of flesh is evidence of His glorified humanity.

If He is not human then He is not our Mediator, He is not our Great High Priest; but He is both these things. For the Word in becoming man, united Deity to humanity forever in His one undivided Person. This is Jesus Christ our Lord. Accept no substitutes.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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He is the way

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I haven't read the entire BoM but the portions I read seem to teach Trinitarian doctrine. Do you agree that that perspective was modified later in the D&C and other teachings?
You may be referring to this scripture:
(Book of Mormon | Mosiah 15:1 - 7)

1 AND now Abinadi said unto them: I would that ye should understand that God himself shall come down among the children of men, and shall redeem his people.
2 And because he dwelleth in flesh he shall be called the Son of God, and having subjected the flesh to the will of the Father, being the Father and the Son—
3 The Father, because he was conceived by the power of God; and the Son, because of the flesh; thus becoming the Father and Son—
4 And they are one God, yea, the very Eternal Father of heaven and of earth.
5 And thus the flesh becoming subject to the Spirit, or the Son to the Father, being one God, suffereth temptation, and yieldeth not to the temptation, but suffereth himself to be mocked, and scourged, and cast out, and disowned by his people.
6 And after all this, after working many mighty miracles among the children of men, he shall be led, yea, even as Isaiah said, as a sheep before the shearer is dumb, so he opened not his mouth.
7 Yea, even so he shall be led, crucified, and slain, the flesh becoming subject even unto death, the will of the Son being swallowed up in the will of the Father.

Then this scripture:

(Doctrine and Covenants | Section 130:22)

22 The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man's; the Son also; but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit. Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us.

I believe that both are true. The hard part is understanding this and understanding our relationship with the our Father in heaven. Understanding these precepts is certainly not an easy task.
 
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He is the way

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Your repeatedly demonstrated ignorance of the meaning of this passage aside, yes, Christ is very much human. The fact that He has a resurrected body of flesh is evidence of His glorified humanity.

If He is not human then He is not our Mediator, He is not our Great High Priest; but He is both these things. For the Word in becoming man, united Deity to humanity forever in His one undivided Person. This is Jesus Christ our Lord. Accept no substitutes.

-CryptoLutheran
Jesus does not have a human body, He has a resurrected spiritual body:

(New Testament | 1 Corinthians 15:35 - 55)

35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:
38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.
39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
 
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Peter1000

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We're pretty clear about what our terms mean. When we say "substance" it's not ambiguous.

Your "substance" definition just fueled our belief system. Words like "composition", "material", "oisha" meaning ones own substance, meaning "any kind of corporeal matter", does not help your definition of God.

For instance, oisha meaning "any kind of corporeal matter"? According to you, Jesus's composition is of corporeal matter, but God the Father and the Holy Ghost are not of corporeal matter, so how could their oisha be the same? How could their "composition" be the same. How can their "nature" be the same? It is surely not the same.

So when you speak of "essence", it must be different than their 'compositions', or their "substance".

I tried to link human essence and divine essence this way: We are all human and therefore have the same human essence, even though we are all separate and distinct humans.

Is the same true of the divine? The 3 Persons in the Godhead have the same divine essence because the 3 are divine, even though they are 3 distinct and separate Persons.

Tell me where I am wrong?
 
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BigDaddy4

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Steve1989MREinfo's entire channel is him reviewing military rations from around the world, past and present.

This video has him reviewing what at the time was a brand-new military ration, and as a bonus at the end is a brief review of the menu item it replaced.

Both menus in the video contain an item called "wheat snack bread", which is essentially a slice of shelf-stable bread in a vacuum-sealed pouch.

This is the kind of thing most American military service members would have while they were in the field... that, a tortilla, or a thing of crackers.

Meanwhile, in Canada, they get hamburger buns. No joke.


Alcohol of any sort, let alone wine?

Some Italian 24-hour rations have a plastic pouch containing liqueur, and the French military authorizes a small standardized bottle of wine as a peripheral item. Those are the only two countries I'm aware of whose militaries still provide alcohol as an active part of the rations.
Why are you quoting me with this off-topic garbage? Field rations are not communion elements.
 
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BigDaddy4

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You should not mock God.
Where am I mocking God? Jesus said bread and fruit of the vine. LDS say anything goes as long as there is "intent". If anything, the LDS mock God because they do not understand God.

Praise God for Oreo cookies and milk!
 
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Ironhold

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Why are you quoting me with this off-topic garbage? Field rations are not communion elements.

What you call "garbage" is what real people have to deal with on a day-to-day basis.

So I ask you again - if you found yourself with no "proper" communion elements, just what was in one of those rations, what would you do?

Call it "garbage" again and I'll take it as you admitting you can't actually back yourself up, which by extension means you're conceding the point to us.
 
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Ironhold

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Where am I mocking God? Jesus said bread and fruit of the vine. LDS say anything goes as long as there is "intent". If anything, the LDS mock God because they do not understand God.

Praise God for Oreo cookies and milk!

Please either add something substantive or admit that you're just here to mock us.
 
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Andrewn

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I believe that both are true. The hard part is understanding this and understanding our relationship with the our Father in heaven. Understanding these precepts is certainly not an easy task.
The theological contradiction between BoM and D&C brings to my mind the contradiction between the Meccan Quran and the Medinan Quran. The former / earlier in each case being more-or-less consistent with traditional Christian teaching. But, of course, JS continued to believe in Christ's atonement and resurrection and in Him as the only Savior.
 
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Andrewn

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This has come to very much ease the burden on the membership, as sacrament can be had at any time and under any circumstances. You'll even hear stories of members in the military using the biscuits out of their rations or something similar because it was the best they could do while they were deployed.
Actually, I'm impressed bu how essential you regard the sacrament and would not give it up under any circumstances.
 
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BigDaddy4

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What you call "garbage" is what real people have to deal with on a day-to-day basis.

So I ask you again - if you found yourself with no "proper" communion elements, just what was in one of those rations, what would you do?

Call it "garbage" again and I'll take it as you admitting you can't actually back yourself up, which by extension means you're conceding the point to us.
It is garbage, and you can take that however you want. Jesus didn't list alternate element. If there are no "proper" elements, then don't take it. One's eternal life is not based on whether or not they took communion on a regular basis, or even at all.

What would I do? I would rather not take it over settling for something less than what Jesus said to do.
 
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BigDaddy4

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Please either add something substantive or admit that you're just here to mock us.
Substantive? What can be more substantive than pointing out what Jesus actually said to use? It was the lds who said to me years ago that Oreos and milk were acceptable as long as the "intent" was there.
 
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