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Once Saved, Always Saved?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by דוד חֵן (David), Sep 27, 2016.

Do you agree with OSAS (Once Saved, Always Saved)?

  1. Yes

  2. No

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. aiki

    aiki Regular Member

    +4,203
    Canada
    Baptist
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    Oh, God can hear your prayers. I'm just not confident He'll answer them positively.

    Selah.
     
  2. aiki

    aiki Regular Member

    +4,203
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    Yup. Pretty sure. At least, since the last time I checked...:sput:

    Selah.
     
  3. 1John2:4

    1John2:4 Well-Known Member

    +353
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    What do your mean beaten sore by God? I am kinda confused by your post would you mind re stating it. Or maybe I missed something in a previous post. Would you mind referring me back to a previous post if i missed something relevant. I am just not understanding your the point you are convaying. Thanks, sorry for the inconvenience.
     
  4. Alithis

    Alithis Disciple of Jesus .

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    and who are his sheep ? the ones doing their own will ?, being sports fanatics, drinking beer going to movies and church on sunday ??.. nope so the verse does not apply to those who are not doing his will.. thus it remains "if we abide in him and he in us .. and endure to the end ,we will be saved .. if not we will be cut off . if we are abiding inn him and are remaining obedience to him then we are his sheep ..if not .. we are not his sheep and thus wont be saved .
    if we were his sheep , but we ceased to abide in him.. we are no longer his sheep .

    if we are no longer hos sheep then we can be plucked out of his hand .. but if we are abiding i him and are obedience to him ,, then we are hos sheep .. and safe .

    to remain safe we must remain in him . just because no one can pluck them out of his hand does not mean he cannot cast them from his hand just as he will spew the from his mouth .
     
  5. 1John2:4

    1John2:4 Well-Known Member

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    That is great news, I hope she was able to turn from that sin. Repent means to turn if you repent you stop doing the sin. Then you are healed, covered. I have confessed things and gone right back to the sin that is not repentance. It is not until we truly repent that Yeshua can cover our sin.
     
  6. DoubtfulSalvation

    DoubtfulSalvation Active Member

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    You'll have to excuse me as I'm probably not the theology master that you aspire to. I do, however, have some basic questions on your version of salvation. I'm familiar with the whole abide in me bit and have heard that explained from an OSAS perspective and it made sense. I wish I could recall all of it, but I can't. Blame that on having four kids and a life of benodiazapens. However, I was wondering what it takes to totally obey him and at what point does one know that we have gone too far. See, the problem I have with your version of salvation is not only does it take away from Christ work on the cross, but it also leaves us with some pretty terrible instructions in the Bible as how to stay saved in the first place. So, what work is enough work to be saved and how much iniquity is required to lose your salvation? See how overly complicated it is? Who can really answer my question. If I wake up one morning and stub my toe really hard and say a slew of expletives that aren't normally what I say ,will I fall from his grace? Do I have to look at shady material on the internet a couple times a week to lose it, or does the mere temptation do it. Where is the physical barometer that one can hold, so that you can know at any given time when or when not you are saved? Also, what about all the sins that you are doing that you don't know are sins? There are just a million questions associated with what you believe, that from my view point would seem to be unanswerable or the answer would be so convoluted there is no way it could be truth. I know what your arguments are toward OSAS are probably going to be. That everyone who believes in it loves sin and is trying to deceive themselves into thinking they can live how they want, but that's not true either. Anywho, I think this is all worth thinking about at length.

    I also believe your view of salvation takes away from what Christ said on the cross when he said "It is finished".
     
  7. faroukfarouk

    faroukfarouk Fading curmudgeon

    +16,307
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    Romans 8.38-39 is very relevant.

    As is John 10.27-30:

    "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. 30I and my Father are one."
     
  8. ldibart

    ldibart Newbie

    66
    +6
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    to be chastised by god as a discipline but was I believe it was stated as chastised sore .that is for those that are God children he disciplines other wise we be fatherless. this discipline is so we obey him so sin is a big deal but not hell bound.
     
  9. sparow

    sparow Well-Known Member Supporter

    +332
    Protestant
    Single
    It would be wrong to serve God out of a fear of hell; hell in the Bible usually refers to a grave or a place where bodies are disposed of like a rubbish tip and refers to the first death which all die anyway. God knows why and when people serve Him; the people who are saved seek salvation, seek God, seek the truth; fear maybe a useful emotion; as Jesus said, it is better to enter in with limbs missing than to miss out.
     
  10. Winken

    Winken Heimat Supporter

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    Good! Great! Progress!

    Romans 10:8-13.

    He does the "knowing," and keeps the Christian secure and informed.

    Instructions: Romans 10:8-13. Assurance: Romans 8:1.

    Romans 10:8-13 You SHALL be saved! Not complicated at all!

    No.

    You can't lose it.

    Romans 10:8-13.

    Forgiven.

    Romans 10:8-13. Romans 8:1. No convolution there.

    The Cross. It is finished. Sin/sins forgiven. Fellowship with your Creator. Slide into sin? 1 John 1:9. Fellowship restored, salvation never at issue.
     
  11. keembo

    keembo Newbie

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    I agree that the terms need defining. After all, John 15:4, depending on translation says either "Abide in Me" or "Remain in Me." The remain certainly would insinuate that you are there at one time but need to remain. This could be carried over into behavior as seen in 1 John 2 v6 where scripture states "he who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as he walked." One can also find interesting scripture spoken by Jesus in Matt beginning with v21 where it states "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name and done many wonders in Your name?' And then I will declare to then, 'Inever knew you; depart from Me you who practice lawlessness!' Certainly it sounds like those are acknowledging the diety of Jesus but when he said he never knew you sounds like they really weren't sealed even though they believed in Him and his power. Remaining is interesting. You can't remain in something unless you were already there to begin with, but scripture certainly states that if you remain in Me and I in you. The directions are clear...Remain. God bless.
     
  12. larssc

    larssc Newbie

    13
    +2
    Calvinist
    I will reply to the first post. The question of eternal security has been questioned and defended since the Reformation. It can be stated simply that those who fall away were not the elect, and were not saved. Many disciples (small D) of Christ stop following. They might have stop believing, in a worldly sense, but never had been regenerated, born again.

    As for names being blotted out.

    "Some have difficulty reconciling this with the security of the believer. But this is only a difficulty if it is possible for one of the elect to be blotted out of the book. If the names of all the living are written and those who never attain salvation are blotted out, then being blotted out does not correspond to losing salvation:

    To assume that remaining in the book of life rests upon continuing loyalty to Christ ignores the fact that before all human faith or striving lie the divine choice and the divine initiative. The worthiness of the faithful . . . is based on divine grace (cf. Rev. Rev. 7:14+). It is incomprehensible that it could be lost through human unfaithfulness. Couple with these considerations the fact that Ps. Ps. 69:28 has the names of the wicked in the book of life, and the basis for an assumption that [being blotted out] refers to a loss of one’s salvation is eliminated.

    Thus, the warning Jesus gives to the church at Sardis (Rev. Rev. 3:5+) is an admonition to those who are not yet overcomers to become overcomers or else their names will be blotted out. The double negative found there, οὐ μὴ [ou mē] , indicates that those who overcome will never be blotted out—which is the substance of the promise Jesus makes."
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2016
  13. aus22

    aus22 Newbie

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    Being a Catholic I am not sure I am saved. Our religion dose not have this,
    But I think if we try to follow Christ we will be saved
     
  14. ldibart

    ldibart Newbie

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    haha some mornings a toe stub is not needed just the mere waking up part will do it hehehe
     
  15. DoubtfulSalvation

    DoubtfulSalvation Active Member

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    Sometimes, I really do believe their are people who feel that way lol.
     
  16. spiritman

    spiritman Well-Known Member

    +123
    Christian
    Widowed
    It is clear that we can lose our salvation if we are not fruitful according to the scriptures. To be in Christ is to be fruitful. There should be no disagreement with the fact that to be in the Vine means to be in Christ. v. 5 "I am the Vine you are the branches." The only way you can be in Christ/Vine is to be saved.

    The text tells us how to be fruitful.
    John 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

    What does it mean to abide? The word in the Greek also means to continue and remain. The Mood for this word is imperative and not a request. We continue in the Vine/Christ by keeping His commandments. To abide in Christ is to abide/continue in His love.
    John 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide/continue/remain in my love; even as I have kept my Father’s commandments, and abide/continue in his love.

    A person that is not fruitful is one that is not abiding/continuing in Christ by keeping His commandments. To follow His commandments is to be fruitful.

    John 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
    6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

    What happens to the man that does not abide/continue in the Vine/Christ? "He is cast forth as a branch, withered, and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned."
     
  17. DoubtfulSalvation

    DoubtfulSalvation Active Member

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    I posted this earlier, but I'd you to answer if you would please. Also, if OSAS is right than you go to hell lol. Isn't that funny. Anyway. Here it is.



    You'll have to excuse me as I'm probably not the theology master that you aspire to. I do, however, have some basic questions on your version of salvation. I'm familiar with the whole abide in me bit and have heard that explained from an OSAS perspective and it made sense. I wish I could recall all of it, but I can't. Blame that on having four kids and a life of benodiazapens. However, I was wondering what it takes to totally obey him and at what point does one know that we have gone too far. See, the problem I have with your version of salvation is not only does it take away from Christ work on the cross, but it also leaves us with some pretty terrible instructions in the Bible as how to stay saved in the first place. So, what work is enough work to be saved and how much iniquity is required to lose your salvation? See how overly complicated it is? Who can really answer my question. If I wake up one morning and stub my toe really hard and say a slew of expletives that aren't normally what I say ,will I fall from his grace? Do I have to look at shady material on the internet a couple times a week to lose it, or does the mere temptation do it. Where is the physical barometer that one can hold, so that you can know at any given time when or when not you are saved? Also, what about all the sins that you are doing that you don't know are sins? There are just a million questions associated with what you believe, that from my view point would seem to be unanswerable or the answer would be so convoluted there is no way it could be truth. I know what your arguments are toward OSAS are probably going to be. That everyone who believes in it loves sin and is trying to deceive themselves into thinking they can live how they want, but that's not true either. Anywho, I think this is all worth thinking about at length.

    I also believe your view of salvation takes away from what Christ said on the cross when he said "It is finished".
     
  18. Alithis

    Alithis Disciple of Jesus .

    +2,136
    New Zealand
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    the problem here is .. you assume a person born of the spirit of god would do such things to lode salvation and you assume you have salvation.. we do but by faith .. by faith we are saved but that is calling that which is not as though it already is .. (the definition of faith ) but the truth is no one receives the salvation of their soul in actuality until Christ returns -we are placing our faith in him to save us when he does and it is he who has laid out the conditions of that salvation which he, through no work of ours ,had provided . its best to follow HIS instructions obediently-those who don't .. are not his .they are rebellious .they remain at enmity with him..
    so another problem is .. many who claim to be those "once saved always saved folks "are not his at all .

    by the way i bash my fingers on a regular basis and never let out a slew of profanity ..;)
     
  19. DoubtfulSalvation

    DoubtfulSalvation Active Member

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    I've heard that the branches being burnt is actually referring to the man destroying our testimonies. Seeing as how men wouldn't throw us in hell, because only God can do that.
     
  20. Alithis

    Alithis Disciple of Jesus .

    +2,136
    New Zealand
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    Married
    scriptural reference..? mans opinions dont carry weight
     
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