Once Saved Always Saved vs You Were Never Really Saved at All

seeker2122

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Can I get some of your guys opinions on this issue?
Does the Bible teach that once you are saved, you can always saved or can you actually fall out of your salvation
by rejecting it and living a non-Christian life? Or would that indicate that you were never truly saved to begin with?
 
Jeremiad
Jeremiad
The Bible is clear, deny or blaspheme the Holy spirit when you are taken before the Antichrist, or take the Mark. If you murder, you have to face Judgement after death, but Jesus has mercy. You cannot escape the Judgement, but this is talking of intentional murder, not defending another or yourself from attack. What would be essentially Murder 1 with planning.
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1 John 2:19
They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.
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sandman

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I think you worded your OP correctly ..... there is no verse that states "once saved always saved" but all indications are exactly that.

The question is: If salvation (the spirit of God within) can be lost ….what is the line of demarcation. There would have to be some point other than the unforgivable sin, because that does not apply to a born again believer. But what would the line be that is crossed to lose salvation ….there is nothing in the Word that describes any such point….And the fact that we did nothing (no works) to earn salvation how could there be any lack of works that would cause us to lose it…

As Romans states we believed unto what Christ accomplished… for salvation … there wasn’t even any works on our part to achieve salvation …it was made unto us.

Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

When you read through Psa 103:2-17 God’s heart and what He did for his people under an inadequate covenant …. How much greater is the covenant provided to us. Their spirit was upon and conditional, …ours is the indwelling and unconditional.

1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
 
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HTacianas

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Can I get some of your guys opinions on this issue?
Does the Bible teach that once you are saved, you can always saved or can you actually fall out of your salvation
by rejecting it and living a non-Christian life? Or would that indicate that you were never truly saved to begin with?

The new testament if filled with warnings against falling away. One of them is:

Rom 11:22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off.

Paul believed that even he could fall away:

1Co 9:26 Therefore I run thus: not with uncertainty. Thus I fight: not as one who beats the air.

1Co 9:27 But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified.
 
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the Vital One

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The question is: If salvation (the spirit of God within) can be lost ….what is the line of demarcation.

The Parable of the Unforgiving Servant is one.

18:21 Then Peter came to him and said, “Lord, how many times must I forgive my brother who sins against me? As many as seven times?” 22 Jesus said to him, “Not seven times, I tell you, but seventy-seven times! 23 “For this reason, the kingdom of heaven is like a king who wanted to settle accounts with his slaves. 24 As he began settling his accounts, a man who owed 10,000 talents was brought to him. 25 Because he was not able to repay it, the lord ordered him to be sold, along with his wife, children, and whatever he possessed, and repayment to be made. 26 Then the slave threw himself to the ground before him, saying, ‘Be patient with me, and I will repay you everything.’ 27 The lord had compassion on that slave and released him, and forgave him the debt. 28 After he went out, that same slave found one of his fellow slaves who owed him 100 silver coins. So he grabbed him by the throat and started to choke him, saying, ‘Pay back what you owe me!’ 29 Then his fellow slave threw himself down and begged him, ‘Be patient with me, and I will repay you.’ 30 But he refused. Instead, he went out and threw him in prison until he repaid the debt. 31 When his fellow slaves saw what had happened, they were very upset and went and told their lord everything that had taken place. 32 Then his lord called the first slave and said to him, ‘Evil slave! I forgave you all that debt because you begged me! 33 Should you not have shown mercy to your fellow slave, just as I showed it to you?’ 34 And in anger his lord turned him over to the prison guards to torture him until he repaid all he owed. 35 So also my heavenly Father will do to you, if each of you does not forgive your brother from your heart.” Matthew 18:21 -35
 
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John Caldwell

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Scripture speaks of us as saved. But at the same time that we will be saved (as a future event). We are to test ourselves to see if we are among the elect.

I take a couple of things from this. If we are saved then that salvation is eternal (OSAS) because what we are saved from is "the wrath to come". Either we are or we are not.

Another thing is that if our lives do not bear out fruits of salvation then we can have no assurance of our salvation (we fail when we test ourselves). Doesn't mean we are mot saved, I suppose, just that we have no assurance.
 
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Michael Collum

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Can I get some of your guys opinions on this issue?
Does the Bible teach that once you are saved, you can always saved or can you actually fall out of your salvation
by rejecting it and living a non-Christian life? Or would that indicate that you were never truly saved to begin with?
OSAS is what is taught by churches because it's hard to call it good news otherwise.

"You were never saved" is integrated as part of the OSAS teachings, since someone cannot lose their salvation under that umbrella.

But it basically ends up communicating the same thing overall.
 
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John Caldwell

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OSAS is what is taught by churches because it's hard to call it good news otherwise.

"You were never saved" is integrated as part of the OSAS teachings, since someone cannot lose their salvation under that umbrella.

But it basically ends up communicating the same thing overall.
I agree both sides say the same thing.

But why not use the gospel of Jesus Christ as the good news instead of OSAS? The Kingdom has come. We may enter.
 
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d taylor

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Can I get some of your guys opinions on this issue?
Does the Bible teach that once you are saved, you can always saved or can you actually fall out of your salvation
by rejecting it and living a non-Christian life? Or would that indicate that you were never truly saved to begin with?
-
A believer can never lose their Eternal Life salvation even if this believer stops believing. As The Bible states no one can snatch a believer out of the hand of God. Even though a person may stop believing God still sees this person as a born again child of God, but they are now like the prodigal son who went away.
 
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Soyeong

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Can I get some of your guys opinions on this issue?
Does the Bible teach that once you are saved, you can always saved or can you actually fall out of your salvation
by rejecting it and living a non-Christian life? Or would that indicate that you were never truly saved to begin with?

While it is possible for someone to have such a poor understanding of salvation that they were never truly saved to begin with, it is a cop out to say that is the case for every last person who has rejected their salvation. Furthermore, if you have to say that once we are saved, then we are always saved...unless we happen to be someone who was never saved in the first place, then that is self-defeating because removes our confidence that will be saved in the end.

Our salvation is from sin (Matthew 1:21), and sin is the transgression of God's law (1 John 3:4), so living in obedience to God's law is the content of the gift of Jesus saving us from not living in obedience to it, and someone can't retain God's gift of salvation while rejecting its content.
 
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lismore

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Can I get some of your guys opinions on this issue?
Does the Bible teach that once you are saved, you can always saved or can you actually fall out of your salvation
by rejecting it and living a non-Christian life? Or would that indicate that you were never truly saved to begin with?
Ephesians 2:8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

Saved by Grace, not by works, but saved to do works. If we are not saved by what we have done then we cannot be unsaved by what we have done or what we have not done.

Sometimes other NT concepts are quoted as synonymous with 'losing your salvation' when in fact they're different. God Bless :)
 
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Soyeong

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I think you worded your OP correctly ..... there is no verse that states "once saved always saved" but all indications are exactly that.

The question is: If salvation (the spirit of God within) can be lost ….what is the line of demarcation. There would have to be some point other than the unforgivable sin, because that does not apply to a born again believer. But what would the line be that is crossed to lose salvation ….there is nothing in the Word that describes any such point….And the fact that we did nothing (no works) to earn salvation how could there be any lack of works that would cause us to lose it…

As Romans states we believed unto what Christ accomplished… for salvation … there wasn’t even any works on our part to achieve salvation …it was made unto us.

Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

When you read through Psa 103:2-17 God’s heart and what He did for his people under an inadequate covenant …. How much greater is the covenant provided to us. Their spirit was upon and conditional, …ours is the indwelling and unconditional.

1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

People can't lose their salvation on accident, but it is another issue whether people and intentionally turn their back and God and reject the content of His gift of salvation.

There can be many reasons for doing works other than for the goal of earning our salvation, so the fact that we don't earn our justification as a wage (Romans 4:4-5) does not mean that our justification does not require us to choose to be doers of the law for some other reason (Romans 2:13), such as faith insofar as Romans 3:31 says that our faith does not abolish the law, but rather our faith uphold it.

In Romans 10:5-10, Paul referenced Deuteronomy 30:11-16 in regard to saying that God's law is not too difficult for us to obey, that the one who obeys it will attain life by it, in regard to what we are agreeing to obey by confessing that Jesus is Lord, and in regard to the way to believe that God raised him from the dead. Furthermore, Romans 10:16 speaks against those who do not obey the Gospel.
 
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Soyeong

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Ephesians 2:8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

Saved by Grace, not by works, but saved to do works. If we are not saved by what we have done then we cannot be unsaved by what we have done or what we have not done.

Sometimes other NT concepts are quoted as synonymous with 'losing your salvation' when in fact they're different. God Bless :)

In Ephesians 2:8-10, we are new creations in Christ to do good works, so while do do not earn our salvation by our works lest anyone should boast, doing good works in nevertheless an integral part of Jesus saving us from not doing good works. Our salvation is from sin (Matthew 1:21) and sin is the transgression of God's law (1 John 3:4), so while we do not earn our salvation by obeying it, living in obedience to it is nevertheless intrinsically part of the gift of Jesus saving us from not living in obedience to it. There can be any number of reasons for doing good works other than in order to try to earn our salvation as a wage, so the fact that do not does not mean that we are not saved by what we have done.
 
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Mark Quayle

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Can I get some of your guys opinions on this issue?
Does the Bible teach that once you are saved, you can always saved or can you actually fall out of your salvation
by rejecting it and living a non-Christian life? Or would that indicate that you were never truly saved to begin with?
A brother of mine once asked me what it is that sets a secret agent above his opponents, is it smarts? Physical ability? He says it is the ability to stay a step or two ahead of them, not just to anticipate their moves, but to manipulate their moves.

In Daniel, and Joseph, we see two men whose minds are above those of the people and officials of the land in which they were held captive. They became 2nd in their respective captor's land, with only the ruler above them, not because they were smart, or because of other abilities, but because of their perspectives. Their minds were on God, and dependent on him —not on what they could get from their situation.

In your question I see no reference to God at all. You are talking about the person —is he saved or not— instead of talking about God who saves. The question isn't about whether once saved a person remains saved. It is about the fact that God will surely accomplish all he has in mind to do.
 
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zoidar

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A believer can never lose their Eternal Life salvation even if this believer stops believing. As The Bible states no one can snatch a believer out of the hand of God. Even though a person may stop believing God still sees this person as a born again child of God, but they are now like the prodigal son who went away.
The prodigal son was dead to his father when he was gone living in sin.
 
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d taylor

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The prodigal son was dead to his father when he was gone living in sin.

As a fall away believer is also considered dead in the faith. But dead in the faith is not the same as losing ones Eternal Life. The prodigal son never lost his son-ship he was always a son.
 
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Tuur

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But why not use the gospel of Jesus Christ as the good news instead of OSAS? The Kingdom has come. We may enter.
It is. OSAS is a doctrinal point, not a substitute for the Gospel.

The issue of Eternal Security is one I've wondered about. OSAS is along the lines of if we are saved by perseverance in the faith, then it becomes a work.

As observed in this topic, that shifts the question to whether someone is really saved. I've struggled with that, too. Yet the point of faith is in Who we trust and not the faith itself. I trust in Jesus Christ, not my level of faith, though I pray for my faith and my belief to increase.

Several weeks ago, while fretting over the related issue of the elect, it occurred to me that it's like when Peter looked at John and said to Jesus, "What about him?" Jesus' answer was:

"Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me."
- John 21:22, ASV

I was overlooking the most important thing: When we are called to Christ, we are to follow.
 
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Pipp@

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Luke 9:62​

62 But Jesus told him, “Anyone who puts a hand to the plow and then looks back is not fit for the Kingdom of God.”

Hebrews 6:4-6​

4 For it is impossible to bring back to repentance those who were once enlightened—those who have experienced the good things of heaven and shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the power of the age to come— 6 and who then turn away from God. It is impossible to bring such people back to repentance; by rejecting the Son of God, they themselves are nailing him to the cross once again and holding him up to public shame.

Does the Bible teach that once you are saved, you can always saved or can you actually fall out of your salvation
by rejecting it and living a non-Christian life?

The bible warns us of falling away from the faith... if you come to Christ, are saved, and then later reject him, why should those people still receive salvation?

Matthew 10:33​

33 But everyone who denies me here on earth, I will also deny before my Father in heaven.

If you haven't read the entire bible yet, then just read everything that Jesus said in the gospel.
 
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Soyeong

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That was prior to Pentecost ..before the new covenant of salvation by grace was available.

In Psalms 119:29-30, David wanted to put false ways for from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His law, and he chose the way of faithfulness, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith.
 
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John Caldwell

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It is. OSAS is a doctrinal point, not a substitute for the Gospel.

The issue of Eternal Security is one I've wondered about. OSAS is along the lines of if we are saved by perseverance in the faith, then it becomes a work.

As observed in this topic, that shifts the question to whether someone is really saved. I've struggled with that, too. Yet the point of faith is in Who we trust and not the faith itself. I trust in Jesus Christ, not my level of faith, though I pray for my faith and my belief to increase.

Several weeks ago, while fretting over the related issue of the elect, it occurred to me that it's like when Peter looked at John and said to Jesus, "What about him?" Jesus' answer was:

"Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me."
- John 21:22, ASV

I was overlooking the most important thing: When we are called to Christ, we are to follow.
I believe OSAS is correct. Unfortunately it is often presented unbiblically (by those who hold it, but most often by those who reject it).

Simply put, OSAS means that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life. Eternal life, by definition, means this life doesn't end.
 
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