'once saved ,always saved' VS. Possibility of losing ones salvation

[ewq1938]

Wait, I thought you were in favor of OSAS?

You haven't read the thread. Read post 15 before rating this post as "funny".

 

[ewq1938]

You haven't read the thread. Read post 15 before rating this post as "funny".

See the edited post above.

 

[Not David]

See the edited post above.

Lol, don't get mad.

 

[Doug Melven]

"hath given me"

You should do a study on the Hebrew future tense. It doesn't exist. And Jesus Christ would have been speaking Hebrew.
So to make a point that "hath given me" can only refer to something that is past is wrong.

Also according to Jesus those who receive eternal life will never perish. The doctrine of OSNAS is inconsistent with John 10:28.

 

[ewq1938]

You should do a study on the Hebrew future tense. It doesn't exist.

That is false. It simply goes by a different name and this is about past tense wording not future tense.

So to make a point that "hath given me" can only refer to something that is past is wrong.

You are wrong. The verb didomi is in the perfect tense:

The perfect tense in Greek corresponds to the perfect tense in English, and describes an action which is viewed as having been completed in the past, once and for all, not needing to be repeated.


In other words what we also know as "past tense".

Also according to Jesus those who receive eternal life will never perish. The doctrine of OSNAS is inconsistent with John 10:28.

They can leave Christ and the verse is not violated. That's what happens in the Apostasy.

 

[Doug Melven]

They can leave Christ and the verse is not violated. That's what happens in the Apostasy.

Then that person would have received eternal life and perished. And that person perishing would make Jesus Christ a liar.
Are you prepared to call Him a liar? I am not.

 

[ewq1938]

Then that person would have received eternal life and perished. And that person perishing would make Jesus Christ a liar.
Are you prepared to call Him a liar? I am not.

And no one should say scripture lies when it speaks of saved people losing salvation. There simply is no scripture which communicates that a saved person cannot Apostatize and lose salvation. None. And there are scriptures that do describe a saved person losing salvation.

 

[thecolorsblend]

You should do a study on the Hebrew future tense. It doesn't exist. And Jesus Christ would have been speaking Hebrew.
So to make a point that "hath given me" can only refer to something that is past is wrong.

Hm. So ancient languages have limitations so we should be careful about translations of them into modern language.

Interesting idea.

 

[Doug Melven]

And no one should say scripture lies when it speaks of saved people losing salvation. There simply is no scripture which communicates that a saved person cannot Apostatize and lose salvation. None. And there are scriptures that do describe a saved person losing salvation.

This would be wrong.
As I said before Jesus said that those who receive eternal life will never perish.
So how can they apostatize and perish when Jesus said they won't?

 

[ewq1938]

This would be wrong.
As I said before Jesus said that those who receive eternal life will never perish.
So how can they apostatize and perish when Jesus said they won't?

Your position still isn't supported by scripture yet NOSAS is supported.

You don't get eternal life until Christ returns...so anyone before that who Apostatizes is in danger of losing it.

Hebrews 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Hebrews 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Hebrews 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Here we are warned that those who

1: were once enlightened
2: and have tasted of the heavenly gift
3: and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost
4: and have tasted the good word of God
5: and the powers of the world to come

can not only lose their salvation but can also be where it is impossible for them to be forgiven. This is the ultimate example of a saved person losing their salvation.

 

[Doug Melven]

You don't get eternal life until Christ returns.

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

1 John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

Both of these verses say we possess eternal when we believe.

 

[ewq1938]

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

1 John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

Both of these verses say we possess eternal when we believe.

Only symbolically. There are way more that say we have the promise of it and will receive it at judgment.

Mark 10:30 But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.

1 Timothy 4:8 For bodily exercise profiteth little: but godliness is profitable unto all things, having promise of the life that now is, and of that which is to come.

"to come" means NOT NOW

Eternal life only comes in the next world, not this one. What we have NOW is the PROMISE.

Matthew 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
Matthew 19:29 And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.

In the regeneration, or the next world, the new age of the New Earth and New Heaven, shall we INHERIT everlasting life. We do not receive it now!


Joh_6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

The "raising up" is the time when everlasting life is to be received.


Rom 6:21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
Rom 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.


The end result of serving God is everlasting life just as the end result of serving sin is death.



1 John 2:24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.
1 John 2:25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.

We are PROMISED eternal life in the WORLD TO COME.


Titus 3:6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
Titus 3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

They did NOT have eternal life at the time of this writing! They were HEIRS, WAITING WITH HOPE to inherit eternal life which is received in the WORLD TO COME which means not this world, not this life but the next...the future!

 

[Doug Melven]

Only symbolically. There are way more that say we have the promise of it and will receive it at judgment.

Mark 10:30 But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.

1 Timothy 4:8 For bodily exercise profiteth little: but godliness is profitable unto all things, having promise of the life that now is, and of that which is to come.

"to come" means NOT NOW

Eternal life only comes in the next world, not this one. What we have NOW is the PROMISE.

Matthew 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
Matthew 19:29 And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.

In the regeneration, or the next world, the new age of the New Earth and New Heaven, shall we INHERIT everlasting life. We do not receive it now!


Joh_6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

The "raising up" is the time when everlasting life is to be received.


Rom 6:21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
Rom 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.


The end result of serving God is everlasting life just as the end result of serving sin is death.



1 John 2:24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.
1 John 2:25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.

We are PROMISED eternal life in the WORLD TO COME.


Titus 3:6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
Titus 3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

They did NOT have eternal life at the time of this writing! They were HEIRS, WAITING WITH HOPE to inherit eternal life which is received in the WORLD TO COME which means not this world, not this life but the next...the future!

Symbolically? Really?

 

[ewq1938]

Symbolically? Really?

Did you not read the other verses that make it clear immortality is not received until a future time?