Once Saved Always Saved Response (moved here)

[ebedmelech]

Those verses relate to election, not OSAS.

The elect are those individuals who were chosen (elected) and predestinated by God before the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1:4-11; 2 Thessalonians 2:13), before they were born (Romans 9:11-24), to become initially saved at some point during their lifetime (Acts 13:48b). This initial salvation is possible only because of Jesus' sacrifice (Romans 3:25-26), which was also foreordained by God before the foundation of the world (Revelation 13:8; 1 Peter 1:19-20).

The "elect" are all who have ever been saved. There will be no one in heaven who are not elected to salvation. When Paul opens his letter to the Ephesians he's talking to every believer there! Ephesians 1:3-5:
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ,
4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love
5 He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will,
6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved.

Notice that there are no exclusions in this passage! All the Ephesian believers are elected and predestined to salvation. This is what Paul is saying.

Everyone on his own is wholly corrupt (Romans 3:9-12), and so it's impossible for people on their own to ever believe in Jesus and the gospel and be initially saved (1 Corinthians 15:1-4, John 20:31; 1 John 5:13) through their own will (Romans 9:16, John 1:13, John 6:65) or their own intellect (1 Corinthians 1:18 to 2:16). Unsaved people can't understand the gospel (1 Corinthians 2:14; 1 Corinthians 1:18) because only initially saved people, who have received the miraculous gift of some measure of God's own Spirit, can understand it (1 Corinthians 2:11-16).

Obviously everyone is wholly corrupt. That's a given.

The nonelect can't ever believe in Jesus and the gospel and be initially saved, even when they're shown the truth (John 8:42-47, John 10:26, Matthew 13:38-42), because the ability to believe in Jesus and the gospel comes only to the elect (Acts 13:48b) wholly by God's grace as a miraculous gift from God (Ephesians 2:8, John 6:65; 1 Corinthians 3:5b, Romans 12:3b, Hebrews 12:2) as the elect read (or hear) God's Word the Bible (Romans 10:17, Acts 13:48, Acts 26:22-23), just as the ability to repent comes only as a miraculous gift from God (2 Timothy 2:25, Acts 11:18). Satan blinds the minds of unbelievers so that on their own they can't repent and acknowledge the truth of God's Word (2 Corinthians 4:4; 2 Timothy 2:25-26).

This is a "mish mash" of "theological lawyering". You're jumping around to passages that are not dealing with election and predestination. This doesn't make your point at all.

Jesus makes it pretty clear in John 6:37-40:
37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out.
38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.
39 This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day.
40 For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.”

Work with that.

Philippians 1:6 does mean that God will complete the work that he has begun in saved people. But other passages show that he will do this only if they continue to cooperate with him, work along with him (1 Corinthians 3:9; 2 Corinthians 5:9, Colossians 1:29, Philippians 2:12, Philippians 3:12-14), and don't wrongly employ their free will to, for example, become utterly lazy without repentance, to the ultimate loss of their salvation (Matthew 25:26,30, John 15:2a, Romans 2:6-8).

Again you're "scripture lawyering". In Phillipians 1:6 Paul is greeting the believers at Philippi, and he's stating his confidence that God will complete what he started. The apostle states this on the basis of election and predestination, which HE TEACHES in Romans 8:28-36, Ephesians 1:3-6.

The ideas of initial salvation and ultimate salvation don't have to be explicitly referred to in scripture as "initial salvation" and "ultimate salvation"...

No they don't...but the scripture NEVER speaks of salvation in those terms either. Salvation is ALWAYS a present possession of believers. The guarantee of one's salvation is the gift of the Holy Spirit which is basically the "down payment" God gives all believers that they will be raised on the last day. That would be Ephesians 1:13, 14 makes the point:
13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,
14 who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.

In the Bible itself, the difference between initial salvation and ultimate salvation is that initial salvation is by grace through faith without any works at all on our part.....

Pretty much this is the failure on your part to recognize that salvation is ALWAYS considered to be:

1. A present posession

2. A process as we live to God in Christ.

3. A future act of the resurrection on the last day.

Don't confuse passages that encourage us to be steadfast in our faith to mean that one can lose their salvation. The point being made is that we exist in our sinful bodies and have the proclivity to sin because our bodies are sinful. Romans 6, 7, and 8 cover this totally.

Hebrews 6:6
If they shall fall away, [it's impossible] to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Note that Hebrews 6:6 doesn't deny that saved people can fall away, for it only refers to apostate believers being unable to be "renewed" "again" to repentance, like they repented when they were saved. And Hebrews 6:6 only refers to apostate believers being unable to crucify to themselves the Son of God "afresh", in the sense of a 2nd time, after they had received salvation through belief in Jesus' crucifixion for their sins the first time.

Hebrews 6:9 simply means that the writer of the book of Hebrews was persuaded that the first century AD believers he was originally addressing in his letter weren't apostate.

Pretty much way off thinking here. Hebrews 6:1-8...is summed up by Hebrews 6:9: which says:
9 But, beloved, we are convinced of better things concerning you, and things that accompany salvation, though we are speaking in this way.
The writer is saying that he's speaking hypothetically in verses 1-8. The things in verses 1-8 DO NOT ACCOMPANY SALVATION...that is the conclusion of verses 1-8.

The rest of what you offer is again more "scripture lawyering" by you Bible2. When you're dealing with a doctrine you go to where the doctirne is dealt with completely. You don't jump around pulling passages out of context. You're dealing with the promises of God in Jesus Christ and not the US Congress!

Romans 6, 7, and 8 pretty much deal with salvation from beginning to end. Find a believer losing salvation there...YOU CAN'T!!!

Finally apostasy is always the result of false believers in the flock. Jesus said "let the wheat and tares grow together". When the harvest comes the tares will be winnowed out.

 

[bling]

Jesus makes it pretty clear in John 6:37-40:
37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out.
38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.
39 This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day.
40 For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.”

Work with that.

As is stated it all comes down to the contingency of: “…everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him”.

Just because Jesus is not at fault for losing anyone or casting any out: “…I will certainly not cast out.” and “…I lose nothing…” does not mean the individual cannot be at fault for walking away (giving up).

Gal. 6: 7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. 9 Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up.

The “Harvest” is eternal life and those sowing after the Spirit can reap that harvest if they do not give up, but if they do give up they will not have eternal life.

 

[ebedmelech]

As is stated it all comes down to the contingency of: “…everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him”.

Just because Jesus is not at fault for losing anyone or casting any out: “…I will certainly not cast out.” and “…I lose nothing…” does not mean the individual cannot be at fault for walking away (giving up).

Just a sec. Jesus said "all that the Father gives to me"...He sums that up saying that "of all that He gives to me I shall lose nothing." Therefore what you're saying doesn't enter the point. If people "walk away", they walk away because they wer never given in the first place.

Gal. 6: 7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. 9 Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up.

What do you have there? A contrast of sowing and reaping in the life one lives...therefore the FRUIT bears out what you really are. That's the point.

The “Harvest” is eternal life and those sowing after the Spirit can reap that harvest if they do not give up, but if they do give up they will not have eternal life.

The harvest is guaranteed because God has given the Holy Spirit as a down payment on that harvest.

The scriptures are pretty clear that those who go apostate do so because they were never saved..1 John 2:19:
19 They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us.

 

[extraordinary]

When Paul opens his letter to the Ephesians he's talking to every believer there! Ephesians 1:3-5:

Romans 6, 7, and 8 pretty much deal with salvation from beginning to end.
Find a believer losing salvation there...YOU CAN'T!!!

When Paul opens his letter to the Ephesians he's talking to every believer there!
... who is faithful! Ephesians 1:1 ... This is very important.

Evidently, you don't understand Romans 6, which is summarized here:
Rom 6:16-23 • “Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey,
you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether (slaves) of sin leading to (eternal) death,
OR (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness? … so now present your members
as slaves of righteousness for holiness … For the wages of sin is (eternal) death …”

You also don't understand how tactful Paul is and how he operates ...
he normally gives a mish-mash of exhortations and warnings/threats!
IMO, to allow the Holy Spirit to reveal spiritual truth to whomever He wishes.
.

 

[ebedmelech]

When Paul opens his letter to the Ephesians he's talking to every believer there!
... who is faithful! Ephesians 1:1 ... This is very important.

If you don't chop up verse 1 as you do. It reads:
Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, To the saints who are at Ephesus and who are faithful in Christ Jesus:

When read properly they ARE saints and they ARE faithful.

Evidently, you don't understand Romans 6, which is summarized here:
Rom 6:16-23 • “Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey,
you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether (slaves) of sin leading to (eternal) death,
OR (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness? … so now present your members
as slaves of righteousness for holiness … For the wages of sin is (eternal) death …”

I understand fine...do you? Paul is laying out here that these believers are to check themselves. If presenting themselvess as slaves of unrighteousness, what would the conclusion be? NOT SAVED!!! Let the passage speak!

You also don't understand how tactful Paul is and how he operates ...
he normally gives a mish-mash of exhortations and warnings/threats!
IMO, to allow the Holy Spirit to reveal spiritual truth to whomever He wishes.
.

No...Paul operates pretty straight forward and not tactful...it's either/or with Paul. Again you cant chop off these verses...you didn't include this portion:
Romans 6:17, 18:
17 But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed,
18 and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.

You see how it works when you let the passage speak?

The apostle draws a line in the sand pretty much and presents a contrast.

 

[joeboonda]

Aagh! Help! I seem to have lost my salvation! Has anyone seen it?!? Oh, wait, there it is, right where I left it, safe and secure in my Father's hand. Silly me. Never mind. Carry on.

 

[extraordinary]

Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God,
To the saints who are at Ephesus and who are faithful in Christ Jesus:

When read properly they ARE saints and they ARE faithful.

You simply only understand the obvious.
Your U/L is obviously true, but ...

If we are to take Paul's salutation @ face value ...
he is writing ONLY to "Christians" in Ephesus who actually are FAITHFUL.

Are ALL faithful in any church? ... This is the whole point.

ALL of the wonderful explanations of who they are,
and ALL of God's promises to them, etc.
are directed ONLY to those who are faithful.

Since this is so obvious, where have you been?
.

 

[bling]

Just a sec. Jesus said "all that the Father gives to me"...He some that up saying that "of all that He gives to me I shall lose nothing." Therefore what you're saying doesn't enter the point. If people "walk away", they walk away because they wer never given in the first place.

No, “never given in the first place” is not implied or required for a person to walk away. In the story of the prodigal son the Father did not loss the son (it was not the father’s fault and the father knew where the son was), but the son left the father of his own free will.

What do you have there? A contrast of sowing and reaping in the life one lives...therefore the FRUIT bears out what you really are. That's the point.

The point of verse 9 is not giving up, for if you give up you give up the harvest which is eternal life.

The harvest is guaranteed because God has given the Holy Spirit as a down payment on that harvest.

Yes! God is totally true to His commitment, but verse 9 says you can give up the harvest. This takes nothing away from what God has committed, but it does make it a pure charitable “gift” to you and since it is a “gift” it is yours to do with as you please. If it was not a true “gift” of ours, we could not sell it or give it away.

The scriptures are pretty clear that those who go apostate do so because they were never saved..1 John 2:19:
19 They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us.

In the context John is addressing the antichrist: 18 Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour.

You are taking a verse addressing a specific group of false teachers and saying all those that give up are like the antichrist, but that is not the case. If you read on John is addressing only real Christians (knowing the truth) yet John gives them a warning: 24 As for you, see that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. 25 And this is what he promised us—eternal life.

John wants the truth to “remain in them”, suggesting it could leave them since John makes it contingent with “if it does” in the next sentence which suggest “it may not”.

 

[SavedByGraceThruFaith]

No, “never given in the first place” is not implied or required for a person to walk away. In the story of the prodigal son the Father did not loss the son (it was not the father’s fault and the father knew where the son was), but the son left the father of his own free will.


The point of verse 9 is not giving up, for if you give up you give up the harvest which is eternal life.




Yes! God is totally true to His commitment, but verse 9 says you can give up the harvest. This takes nothing away from what God has committed, but it does make it a pure charitable “gift” to you and since it is a “gift” it is yours to do with as you please. If it was not a true “gift” of ours, we could not sell it or give it away.



In the context John is addressing the antichrist: 18 Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour.

You are taking a verse addressing a specific group of false teachers and saying all those that give up are like the antichrist, but that is not the case. If you read on John is addressing only real Christians (knowing the truth) yet John gives them a warning: 24 As for you, see that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. 25 And this is what he promised us—eternal life.

John wants the truth to “remain in them”, suggesting it could leave them since John makes it contingent with “if it does” in the next sentence which suggest “it may not”.

You are using assumptions about what something means.

You are inferring that something applies to eternal life versus eternal condemnation when it does not.

Show something that actually says what you are saying.

 

[extraordinary]

Rom 6:16-23 • “Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey,
you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether (slaves) of sin leading to (eternal) death,
OR (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness? … so now present your members
as slaves of righteousness for holiness … For the wages of sin is (eternal) death …”

Paul is laying out here that these believers are to check themselves. If presenting themselvess as
slaves of unrighteousness, what would the conclusion be? NOT SAVED!!! Let the passage speak!

NO ... Paul is WARNING that if these BACs do not turn their lives around and stop sinning,
they must be classified as BACs who are slaves of sin ... and they will inherit eternal death.

You need to comprehend that BACs may (and can) choose to habitually sin!
I.E. no human was created to be a robot ... all humans HAVE free will.

Due to God's free gift of grace-faith-salvation (Eph 2:8-9),
they have been given many many spiritual blessings (esp. the Holy Spirit).
But, this is merely the beginning of the Christian walk.
How grateful, faithful, obedient, etc. they are has yet to be displayed and proven.

Would thou likest to see 3 dozen warning verses (grouped into 10 categories),
which are absolutely guaranteed to be hooked into losing eternal life?
Because these passages do exist ... and they are ignored by most people here.
IMO, you will be shocked when your eyes become opened.
.

 

[SavedByGraceThruFaith]

NO ... Paul is WARNING that if these BACs do not turn their lives around and stop sinning,
they must be classified as BACs who are slaves of sin ... and they will inherit eternal death.

You need to comprehend that BACs may (and can) choose to habitually sin!
I.E. no human was created to be a robot ... all humans HAVE free will.

Due to God's free gift of grace-faith-salvation (Eph 2:8-9),
they have been given many many spiritual blessings (esp. the Holy Spirit).
But, this is merely the beginning of the Christian walk.
How grateful, faithful, obedient, etc. they are has yet to be displayed and proven.

Would thou likest to see 3 dozen warning verses (grouped into 10 categories),
which are absolutely guaranteed to be hooked into losing eternal life?
Because these passages do exist ... and they are ignored by most people here.
IMO, you will be shocked when your eyes become opened.
.

Where did you get the word eternal in parentheses in these passages?

How about just 1 passages. Give me your best one.

 

[SavedByGraceThruFaith]

NO ... Paul is WARNING that if these BACs do not turn their lives around and stop sinning,
they must be classified as BACs who are slaves of sin ... and they will inherit eternal death.

You need to comprehend that BACs may (and can) choose to habitually sin!
I.E. no human was created to be a robot ... all humans HAVE free will.

Due to God's free gift of grace-faith-salvation (Eph 2:8-9),
they have been given many many spiritual blessings (esp. the Holy Spirit).
But, this is merely the beginning of the Christian walk.
How grateful, faithful, obedient, etc. they are has yet to be displayed and proven.

Would thou likest to see 3 dozen warning verses (grouped into 10 categories),
which are absolutely guaranteed to be hooked into losing eternal life?
Because these passages do exist ... and they are ignored by most people here.
IMO, you will be shocked when your eyes become opened.
.

Sorry I was wrong about "(eternal0" being in your post. I got confused.

 

[ebedmelech]

You simply only understand the obvious.
Your U/L is obviously true, but ...

If we are to take Paul's salutation @ face value ...
he is writing ONLY to "Christians" in Ephesus who actually are FAITHFUL.

Are ALL faithful in any church? ... This is the whole point.

ALL of the wonderful explanations of who they are,
and ALL of God's promises to them, etc.
are directed ONLY to those who are faithful.

Since this is so obvious, where have you been?
.

Nope. You're still not getting what the apostle is doing here...and I'm not going to labor it with you.

The first thing you need to understand is that this letter is written to more churches than at Ephesus. The earliest copies of this letter don't even include "Ephesus" as the church. This was a letter that went to more than Ephesus, and that's why is worded that way.

Paul is modifying "the saints" by saying" "and are faithful"...it joins to a complete thought of them. Now you can do the word study...but I will share a few commentaries to HELP YOU:

Matthew Henry:
2. The persons to whom this epistle is sent: To the saints who are at Ephesus, that is, to the Christians who were members of the church at Ephesus, the metropolis of Asia. He calls them saints, for such they were in profession, such they were bound to be in truth and reality, and many of them were such. All Christians must be saints; and, if they come not under that character on earth, they will never be saints in glory. He calls them the faithful in Christ Jesus, believers in him, and firm and constant in their adherence to him and to his truths and ways. Those are not saints who are not faithful, believing in Christ, firmly adhering to him, and true to the profession they make of relation to their Lord.

Critical Commentary On The Whole NT:
1. by--rather, "through the will of God": called to the apostleship through that same "will" which originated the Church ( Ephesians 1:5 Ephesians 1:9 Ephesians 1:11 ; compare Galatians 1:4 ).
which are at
to the saints . . . and to the faithful--The same persons are referred to by both designations, as the Greek proves: "to those who are saints, and faithful in Christ Jesus." The sanctification by God is here put before man's faith. The twofold aspect of salvation is thus presented, God's grace in the first instance sanctifying us, (that is, setting us apart in His eternal purposes as holy unto Himself); and our faith, by God's gift, laying hold of salvation ( 2 Thessalonians 2:13 , 1 Peter 1:2 ).

Clarke's Commentary on Ephesians 1:1
To the saints which are at Ephesus - As some learned men think that this epistle was written to the Church of the Laodiceans, and that the words εν Εφεσῳ, in Ephesus, were not originally in this epistle, the consideration of the subject has appeared to be more proper for the preface; and to that the reader is referred for a particular discussion of this opinion. By the term saints we are to understand those who in that place professed Christianity, and were members of the Christian Church. Saint properly signifies a holy person, and such the Gospel of Christ requires every man to be, and such every true believer is, both in heart and life; but saint appears to have been as ordinary a denomination of a believer in Christ in those primitive times, as the term Christian is now. Yet many had the name who had not the thing.

The faithful in Christ Jesus - Πιστοις· the believers - the persons who received Christ as the promised Messiah, and the Savior of the world, and continued in the grace which they had received.

Barnes' Notes on Ephesians 1:1

Paul, an apostle; - see the notes at Romans 1:1.

By the will of God - see the notes at 1 Corinthians 1:1.

To the saints - A name often given to Christians because they are holy; see the notes at 1 Corinthians 1:2.

In Ephesus - see the introduction, sections 1 and 5.
And to the faithful in Christ Jesus - This evidently refers to others than to those who were in Ephesus, and it is clear that Paul expected that this Epistle would be read by others. He gives it a general character, as if he supposed that it might be transcribed, and become the property of the church at large. It was not uncommon for him thus to give a general character to the epistles which he addressed to particular churches, and so to write that others than those to whom they were particularly directed, might feel that they were addressed to them. Thus, the First Epistle to the Corinthians was addressed to "the church of God in Corinth - with all that in every place call upon the name of Christ Jesus our Lord." The Second Epistle to the Corinthians in like manner was addressed to "the church of God which is at Corinth, with all the saints which are in all Achaia." Perhaps, in the Epistle before us, the apostle referred particularly to the churches of Asia Minor which he had not visited, but there is no reason for confining the address to them.

All who are "faithful in Christ Jesus" may regard the Epistle as addressed by the Holy Spirit to them, and may feel that they are as much interested in the doctrines, promises, and duties set forth in this Epistle, as were the ancient Christians of Ephesus. The word "faithful" here is not used in the sense of "trustworthy," or in the sense of "fidelity," as it is often employed, but in the sense of "believing," or "having faith" in the Lord Jesus. The apostle addresses those who were firm in the faith - another name for true Christians.

I rest my case.

 

[extraordinary]

The first thing you need to understand is that this letter is written to more churches than at Ephesus.

Paul is modifying "the saints" by saying" "and are faithful"...it joins to a complete thought of them.

The first thing you need to understand is ...
all the better, obviously ... the more the merrier ... to have some who were NOT faithful.

I've always know that this "faithful" thing was a bit of a stretch, but it fits in with my thinking that ...

Every Tom, Dick, and Harry who are BACs will NOT make heaven.
And the Scriptures warn of this ... Is that blunt enough for you?
.

 

[ebedmelech]

The first thing you need to understand is ...
all the better, obviously ... the more the merrier ... to have some who were NOT faithful.

I've always know that this "faithful" thing was a bit of a stretch, but it fits in with my thinking that ...

Every Tom, Dick, and Harry who are BACs will NOT make heaven.
And the Scriptures warn of this ... Is that blunt enough for you?
.

Ok...keep with that.

 

[SavedByGraceThruFaith]

Paul, the apostle of the Gentiles, wrote the following. From verse 16, all who believe the gospel of Jesus Christ have salvation. It would not be salvation if there were any possibility of damnation after the moment of salvation.

Romans 1:15-17
15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

From verse 25 of the passage below, all those that are saved have all their sins paid for by the blood of Jesus Christ.

Romans 3:21-26
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

They have all their sins forgiven.

Colossians 1:14
In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

Ephesians 1:7
In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

Those that are saved are not under the law of sin unto damnation.

Romans 6:14
For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

 

[ebedmelech]

No, “never given in the first place” is not implied or required for a person to walk away. In the story of the prodigal son the Father did not loss the son (it was not the father’s fault and the father knew where the son was), but the son left the father of his own free will.


The point of verse 9 is not giving up, for if you give up you give up the harvest which is eternal life.

So if you give up how were you ever saved? That's the point.

Yes! God is totally true to His commitment, but verse 9 says you can give up the harvest. This takes nothing away from what God has committed, but it does make it a pure charitable “gift” to you and since it is a “gift” it is yours to do with as you please. If it was not a true “gift” of ours, we could not sell it or give it away.

Again...if you give up how are you ever saved? Read "the parable of the sower".

In the context John is addressing the antichrist: 18 Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour.

You are taking a verse addressing a specific group of false teachers and saying all those that give up are like the antichrist, but that is not the case. If you read on John is addressing only real Christians (knowing the truth) yet John gives them a warning: 24 As for you, see that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. 25 And this is what he promised us—eternal life.

John wants the truth to “remain in them”, suggesting it could leave them since John makes it contingent with “if it does” in the next sentence which suggest “it may not”.

Actually no. John is making a point about antichrist period. It is written for our learning, because antichrist exist today also. Just as John told them why they "went out from us"...it's the same reason they "go out from us" today...they were never really of us. Just as people fell away then, they fall away today. Just as John encouraged them, we should encourage others realizing the Lord KNOWS those that are His.

 

[SavedByGraceThruFaith]

So if you give up how were you ever saved? That's the point.


Again...if you give up how are you ever saved? Read "the parable of the sower".

Actually no. John is making a point about antichrist period. It is written for our learning, because antichrist exist today also. Just as John told them why they "went out from us"...it's the same reason they "go out from us" today...they were never really of us. Just as people fell away then, they fall away today. Just as John encouraged them, we should encourage others realizing the Lord KNOWS those that are His.

John says that they were never saved. They did not fall away.

1 John 2:19
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

 

[sdowney717]

Yes they left because they were not His people, not saved, not of God.
There were and are antichrists.
John talks of both the big ANTICHRIST to come and these little antichrist persons who left in unbelief.

There are people in churches who are unbelievers. they are with you and perhaps talk like you but are not of you in the same Spirit. They are of the world. I think God permits this to test the saints. Just like He left some of the nations in Canaan land to test Israel.

 

[ebedmelech]

John says that they were never saved. They did not fall away.

1 John 2:19
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

That's correct. So the end result is that while we don't know who is really saved (because we cannot see the heart of a person), the one that endures is saved, the one that doesn't, is not saved and never where.

This is why our Lord said "let the wheat and the tares grow together", in the harvest the Lord separates them...