Once in the afterlife

[Mountainmanbob]

 

[EmSw]

I see in the video above, that the spirit leaving the earthly body still has a body. Can you explain that?

 

[Marvin Knox]

I see in the video above, that the spirit leaving the earthly body still has a body. Can you explain that?

It really needs no explanation.

Just consider the pre-ressurected Moses and Elijah on the mount of transfiguration.

For that matter - think about the pre-ressurected rich man in torments. There was obviously some kind of "body" through which he felt pain and suffering and by which he could "see and hear". He could also see the beggar who also had some kind of body by looking across the gulf set between them.

John also "saw" with his own eyes pre-ressurected saints in heaven.

 

[EmSw]

It really needs no explanation.

Just consider the pre-ressurected Moses and Elijah on the mount of transfiguration.

For that matter - think about the pre-ressurected rich man in torments. There was obviously some kind of "body" through which he felt pain and suffering and by which he could "see and hear". He could also see the beggar who also had some kind of body by looking across the gulf set between them.

John also "saw" with his own eyes pre-ressurected saints in heaven.

Hello Marvin. I see we both agree, we are resurrected with a body after death.

It is a spiritual body, for our earthly body only serves us while on earth.

 

[Ron Gurley]

Eternal Suffering or Just Lights Out? (or ???)

DEATH...then what?

What I choose to be BELIEVE:
" To be absent from the BODY/SOUL COMBO (death) is to be present (spiritually) with the TRI-UNE GOD (eternal life in heavenly realms)".SEE: 2 Corinthians 5: 1-15 (NIV)...Our Heavenly Dwelling
...a paraphrase of Paul, emphasizing differences in BODY / SPIRIT.

2 Corinthians 5: 1-15 (NIV)...Our Heavenly Dwelling
8 We are confident, I say, and would prefer
to be away from the BODY(/SOUL) and at home (HEAVEN) with the Lord.(SPIRITUAL PRESENCE)

1 Peter 3: 18-19 (NIV with my comments)
(Jesus the Christ's BODY) being put to death in the flesh, but made (spiritually) alive by (God) the (Holy) Spirit,
19 by whom also He (resurrected Jesus) went and preached to (~release) the spirits (souls) in prison,...
("Paradise" + "Hades" sides of "Abraham's Bosom")

For the THREE parts of man, SPIRIT, SOUL and BODY,
SEE:
1 Thessalonians 5:23 (NIV)
May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through.
May your whole SPIRIT, SOUL and BODY be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Hebrews 4:12 (NASB) ....difference in SOUL and SPIRIT
For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword,
and piercing as far as the DIVISION of SOUL and SPIRIT, of both joints and marrow, (BODY)
and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart.(spiritual conscience?)

Luke 16: 19-31...Jesus teaching on Jewish Tradition?...Jesus' descent to set the captives free...
TWO unseen and separated spiritual PLACES for the bodies / souls of the DEAD...
"Paradise"* + "Hades"** = "Abraham's Busom"

"Paradise"* - The ACTUAL spiritual abode was: "angel populated", "comfort(ing)", containing secret "inexpressible things"
---------------------
Hades"** (Greek) = ~Hell = ~Gehenna (place of fire?) = ~Sheol (lowest grave?)
The ACTUAL spiritual abode was for the unbelieving and unsaved souls / unborn spirits of the dead,
AFTER physical death and BEFORE the Great White Throne Judgement (Revelations 20: 11-15 ) ...sheep or goats.
The abode was : CONSCIOUS, TORMENTS/AGONY, NO 2nd CHANCE, NO communication with the LIVING,
and you can SEE "Paradise".
------------------------------
BUT...Good News!..Jesus the Christ overcame that "death" and
the holding place of "Abraham's Bosom", and
He fulfilled the Law / Traditions!

Luke 23:43...Jesus: 1 of 7 sayings fro the Cross
Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise."...(on the cross)...before earthly Resurrection!
...Jesus was in "paradise" between the time of bodily death and "resurrection" of His SPECIAL body.

2 Corinthians 12:3-4...Paradise WAS a Spiritual PLACE
3 And I know that this man—whether in the BODY or apart from the body (soul / spirit) I do not know, but God knows—
4 was caught up to "paradise". He heard inexpressible things, things that man is not permitted to tell.

Revelation 2:7....Paradise WILL BE a Spiritual PLACE : heaven
He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.
To him who overcomes, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, (old Eden)
which is in the paradise of God. (in the NEW heavens and NEW earth)

NEW HEAVENS: Revelation 21:3-4
Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them.
They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God.
4 He will wipe every tear from their eyes.
There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away."
----------------
NEW "Lake of Fire": Revelation 19-20
19: 20 But the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who had performed the miraculous signs on his behalf.
With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped his image.
The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery LAKE of burning sulfur.
20:10 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur,
where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown.
They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
20:14-15 Then death and HADES were thrown into the lake of fire.
The lake of fire is the SECOND death. (for unbelievers)
15 >>>If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, (believer) he was thrown into the lake of fire.<<<

1 Corinthians 15: 42-49...Resurrection "Spirit bodies"...Hey! I want one of those!!
>>>>so shall we bear the likeness of the man from heaven.<<<<

2 Corinthians 5: 1-15 (NIV)...Our Heavenly Dwelling
8 We are confident, I say, and would prefer
to be away from the BODY and at home (HEAVEN) with the Lord.(SPIRITUAL PRESENCE)
10 For we (BELIEVERS) must all appear before the "judgment (bema = awards platform) seat of Christ",
that each one may receive what is due him for the things done (WORKS) while in the BODY,
whether good or bad....

1 Corinthians 3:10-15 (NIV)...Judgment of the BELIEVER'S WORKS...watch out for the FIRE!
15 If it (WORK) is burned up, he will suffer LOSS;
he himself will be SAVED (into eternal life), but only as one escaping through the flames. (spirit survives in flames...below)


19 "There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day.
20 At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores
21 and longing to eat what fell from the rich man's table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.
22 "The time came when the beggar died and the ANGELS carried him to Abraham's side.
(Abraham's BOSOM = "PARADISE" = place for those in or awaiting for Jesus the Messiah /GOD's presence)
The rich man also died and was buried.
23 In HELL (HADES), where he was in TORMENT, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side.
24 So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus
to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this FIRE.'
25 "But Abraham replied, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things,
while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony.
26 And besides all this, between us and you a great CHASM has been fixed,
so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.'
27 "He answered, 'Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father's house,
28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this PLACE of TORMENT.'
29 "Abraham replied, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.'
30 " 'No, father Abraham,' he said, 'but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.'
31 "He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets,
they will not be convinced even if someone RISES from the DEAD.' "

The Apostle's Creed: "..He descended into...HELL / (Paradise) to set the "awaiting" souls free.

2 Corinthians 12:3-4...Paradise WAS a Spiritual PLACE
3 And I know that this man—whether in the BODY or apart from the body (soul / spirit) I do not know, but God knows—
4 was caught up to "paradise". He heard inexpressible things, things that man is not permitted to tell.


NEW Lake of Fire: Revelation 19-20

19: 20 But the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who had performed the miraculous signs on his behalf.
With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped his image.
The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery LAKE of burning sulfur.

20:10And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur,
where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown.
They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

20:14-15 Then death and HADES were thrown into the lake of fire.
The lake of fire is the SECOND death. (for unbelievers)
15 >>>If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, (believer) he was thrown into the lake of fire.<<<


1 Corinthians 15: 42-49...Resurrection "Spirit bodies"...Hey! I want one of those!!
42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead.
The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable;
43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory;
it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power;
44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.
If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.
45 So it is written:
"The first man Adam became a living being";
the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.
46 The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual.
47 The first man was of the dust of the earth, the second man from heaven.
48 As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the man from heaven,
so also are those who are of heaven.
49 And just as we have borne the likeness of the earthly man,
>>>>so shall we bear the likeness of the man from heaven.<<<<

2 Corinthians 5: 1-15 (NIV)...Our Heavenly Dwelling

1 Now we know that if the earthly tent we live in (BODY) is destroyed, we have a building from God,
an eternal house (PLACE) in heaven, not built by human hands.
2 Meanwhile we groan, longing to be clothed with our heavenly dwelling, (SPIRIT BODIES)
3 because when we are clothed, we will not be found naked.
4 For while we are in this tent (BODY), we groan and are burdened,
because we do not wish to be unclothed but to be clothed with our heavenly dwelling, (SPIRIT BODIES)
so that what is mortal (BODY) may be swallowed up by life.(SPIRIT)
5 Now it is God who has made us for this very purpose
and has given us the Spirit (indwelling HOLY SPIRIT of God) as a deposit, GUARANTEEING what is to come.
6 Therefore we are always confident and know that as long as
we are at home in the BODY we are away from the Lord. (SPIRITUAL PRESENCE)
7 We live by faith, not by sight.
8 We are confident, I say, and would prefer
to be away from the BODY and at home (HEAVEN) with the Lord.(SPIRITUAL PRESENCE)
9 So we make it our goal to please him, whether we are at home in the body or away from it.
10 For we (BELIEVERS) must all appear before the "judgment (bema = awards platform) seat of Christ",
that each one may receive what is due him for the things done (WORKS) while in the BODY,
whether good or bad....
14 For Christ's love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all,
and therefore all died.
15 And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him
who died for them and was raised again....
Be reconciled to God. 21 God made him who had no sin to be sin for us (SUBSTITUTION),
so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

1 Corinthians 3:10-15 (NIV)...Judgment of the BELIEVER'S WORKS
10 By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as an expert builder,
and someone else is building on it.
But each one (BELIEVER) should be careful how he BUILDS.
11 For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid,
which is Jesus Christ.(salvation)
12 If any man BUILDS on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw,
13 his WORK will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it (WORKS) to light.
It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's WORK.
14 If what he has BUILT survives, he will receive his REWARD.(CROWNS)
15 If it (WORK) is burned up, he will suffer LOSS;
he himself will be SAVED (into eternal life), but only as one escaping through the flames. (spirit survives in flames...below)

Daniel 3: 16-27
16 Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego replied to the king,
"O Nebuchadnezzar, we do not need to defend ourselves before you in this matter.
17 If we are thrown into the blazing furnace, the God we serve is able to save us from it,
and he will rescue us from your hand, O king.
18 But even if he does not, we want you to know, O king,
that we will not serve your gods or worship the image of gold you have set up."
25 He said, "Look! I see four men walking around in the fire, unbound and unharmed,
and the fourth looks like a son of the gods." (the 3 + angel / Jesus?)
So Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego came out of the fire,
27 and the satraps, prefects, governors and royal advisers crowded around them.
They saw that the fire had not harmed their bodies, nor was a hair of their heads singed;
their robes were not scorched, and there was no smell of fire on them.
=====================================================SHORT FORM

Eternal Suffering or Just Lights Out? (or ???)

aka DEATH...then what?

1 Peter 3: 18-19 (NIV with my comments)
(Jesus the Christ's BODY) being put to death in the flesh, but made (spiritually) alive by (God) the (Holy) Spirit,
19 by whom also He (resurrected Jesus) went and preached to (~released) the spirits (souls) in prison,...
("Paradise" side of "Abraham's Bosom")

What I choose to be BELIEVE:
" To be absent from the BODY/SOUL is to be present (spiritually) with the LORD".
...a paraphrase of Paul, emphasizing differences in BODY / SPIRIT.

For the THREE parts of man, SPIRIT, SOUL and BODY,
SEE:
1 Thessalonians 5:23 (NIV)
May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through.
May your whole SPIRIT, SOUL and BODY be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Hebrews 4:12 (NASB) ....difference in SOUL and SPIRIT
For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword,
and piercing as far as the DIVISION of SOUL and SPIRIT,
of both joints and marrow, (BODY)
and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart.(spiritual conscience)

Luke 16: 19-31...Jewish Tradition....and Jesus' descent to set the captives free...
TWO unseen and separated spiritual PLACES for the bodies / souls of the DEAD...= "Paradise"* + "Hades"** ...
--------------
"Paradise"* - The ACTUAL spiritual abode was: "angel populated", "comfort(ing)", containing secret "inexpressible things"
---------------------
Hades"** (Greek) = ~Hell = ~Gehenna (place of fire?) = ~Sheol (lowest grave?)
The ACTUAL spiritual abode was for the unbelieving and unsaved souls / unborn spirits of the dead,
AFTER physical death and BEFORE the Great White Throne Judgement (Revelations 20: 11-15 ) ...sheep or goats.
The abode was : CONSCIOUS, TORMENTS/AGONY, NO 2nd CHANCE, NO communication with the LIVING,
and you can see "paradise".
------------------------------

>>>BUT...Good News!..Jesus the Christ overcame that "death" and the holding place of "Abraham's Bosom", and He fulfilled the Law / Traditions!<<<

Luke 23:43...Jesus: 1 of 7 sayings from the Cross..
Jesus answered him (thief) , "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise."...(on the cross)...before earthly Resurrection!
...Jesus was in "paradise" between the time of bodily death and "resurrection" of His SPECIAL body.

The Apostle's Creed: "..He descended into...HELL / (Paradise) to set the "awaiting" souls free.

2 Corinthians 12:3-4...Paradise WAS a Spiritual PLACE
3 And I know that this man—whether in the BODY or apart from the body (soul / spirit) I do not know, but God knows—
4 was caught up to "paradise". He heard inexpressible things, things that man is not permitted to tell.

Revelation 2:7....Paradise WILL BE a Spiritual PLACE : heaven
He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.
To him who overcomes, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, (old Eden)
which is in the paradise of God. (in the NEW heavens and NEW earth)

NEW HEAVENS: Revelation 21:3-4
Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them.
They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God.
4 He will wipe every tear from their eyes.
There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain,
for the old order of things has passed away."
----------------
NEW "Lake of Fire": Revelation 19-20
19: 20 But the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who had performed the miraculous signs on his behalf.
With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped his image.
The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery LAKE of burning sulfur.
20:10 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur,
where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown.
They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
20:14-15 Then death and HADES were thrown into the lake of fire.
The lake of fire is the SECOND death. (for unbelievers)
15 >>>If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, (believer) he was thrown into the lake of fire.<<<

 

[Butch5]

That video covered at least 4 false doctrines.

 

[Mountainmanbob]

That video covered at least 4 false doctrines.

Care to name them?

M-Bob

 

[Butch5]

Care to name them?

M-Bob

Sure, "The Heavenly Destiny" doctrine. The "Eternal Conscious Torment" Doctrine. The "Immortal Soul" doctrine, and the "Penal Atonement" doctrine.

 

[Mountainmanbob]

The "Eternal Conscious Torment"

It's a terrible thing but according to the Bible many are going to suffer like that.

John MacArthur has been preaching and studying the Bible for over 60 years. Is the president of a seminary college and actually has written his own concordance Bible.

M-Bob

 

[Butch5]

It's a terrible thing but according to the Bible many are going to suffer like that.

John MacArthur has been preaching and studying the Bible for over 60 years. Is the president of a seminary college and actually has written his own concordance Bible.

M-Bob

No, the Bible doesn't teach that. I guess MacArthur is wrong. The Bible is pretty clear. The wages of sin is death, not ETC.