Once Gay (Matthew and friends)

[The Barbarian]

God didn't say that,

Some people think that He would have, if He had all the facts.

 

[Carl Emerson]

I would avoid joining the "my sins are nicer than your sins" club. Jesus clearly indicated by His number of statements on each, which sins He felt were more serious. Maybe we should just listen to Him, and not decide on our own.

Yes, He did classify certain sins as abominations...

 

[Quartermaine]

Yes, He did classify certain sins as abominations...

eating shellfish
Christmas trees
Easter eggs
Remarriage after divorce
The oppression of minorities
Banking
Eating for legged insects (its a good thing there are no such insects)
Sex with your father's concubine without first getting his permission.
Tattoos
Modern agriculture
Poly cotton blend shirts.

 

[The Barbarian]

Yes, He did classify certain sins as abominations...

See above. The New Covenant was focused on love for God and man, not on the evils of shrimp cocktail.

 

[Hazelelponi]

If this was true, then it would have been unjust of God to mandate against it.

Folks can be born with a spiritual inheritance that is not all Kosher. In such cases this can be discerned and corrected.

So much comes back to our belief that the bible is God's message to us or not.

In the face of social pressure and so called science, believers are called to heed His Words.

We have to teach kids to do right, we don't have to teach them to do wrong.

God asks of mankind that which is against his (fallen) nature all the time.

 

[Wilderness Cry]

I understand that some adamantly maintain it cant happen, but God is doing it despite their opinions.

I know for a fact it can and does happen.

 

[The Barbarian]

Why find it strange, that if after 20 years in a marriage to a woman with kids the husband says he's gay. That the reverse isn't possible?

Usually, those guys finally admit to their wives that they were always attracted to guys, but thought that they could change.

On the other hand, there are bisexual people, who can be perfectly happy with whatever life partner they fall in love with. And who know? Maybe it's possible to change orientation for some. There have been some dramatic cases where brain injuries have completely changed people and not always for the worse.

 

[RileyG]

Are these ex-gay men still attracted to men or are they just celibate?

Bisexual guys are rather rare. Women are more likely to be bisexual/fluid than men.

[I do not support the lifestyle at all]

 

[RileyG]

Usually, those guys finally admit to their wives that they were always attracted to guys, but thought that they could change.

On the other hand, there are bisexual people, who can be perfectly happy with whatever life partner they fall in love with. And who know? Maybe it's possible to change orientation for some. There have been some dramatic cases where brain injuries have completely changed people and not always for the worse.

I wonder what truly causes sexual orientation. I wonder if it's a mixture of nurture and nature. IMHO.

 

[The Barbarian]

I wonder what truly causes sexual orientation. I wonder if it's a mixture of nurture and nature. IMHO.

The best evidence we have is that it's mostly not genetic, but relates to hormonal effects on the fetus in utero. Epigenetic effects may complicate this scenario:
Science | AAAS

 

[The Barbarian]

Are these ex-gay men still attracted to men or are they just celibate?

I suspect they are celibate. This is what the Church thinks is desirable for them:
Chastity and homosexuality
2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an
exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great
variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. It psychological genesis remains
largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts
of grave depravity (Cf. Genesis 19:1-29; Romans 1:24-27; 1 Corinthians 6:10; 1 Timothy 1:10),
tradition has always declared that “homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered.” (Congregation
for the Doctrine of the Faith, Persona humana, 8). They are contrary to the natural law. They
close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual
complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.
2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not
negligible. They do not choose their homosexual condition; for most of them it is a trial. They
must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination
in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and,
if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may
encounter from their condition.
2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them
their inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and
sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.
https://www.catholichawaii.org/media/224236/homosexuality_ _from_catechism_of_the_catholic_church.pdf

Bisexual guys are rather rare. Women are more likely to be bisexual/fluid than men.

Maybe so. Sounds right, but I don't have any data.

 

[RileyG]

The best evidence we have is that it's mostly not genetic, but relates to hormonal effects on the fetus in utero. Epigenetic effects may complicate this scenario:
Science | AAAS

interesting

 

[RileyG]

I suspect they are celibate. This is what the Church thinks is desirable for them:
Chastity and homosexuality
2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an
exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great
variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. It psychological genesis remains
largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts
of grave depravity (Cf. Genesis 19:1-29; Romans 1:24-27; 1 Corinthians 6:10; 1 Timothy 1:10),
tradition has always declared that “homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered.” (Congregation
for the Doctrine of the Faith, Persona humana, 8). They are contrary to the natural law. They
close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual
complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.
2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not
negligible. They do not choose their homosexual condition; for most of them it is a trial. They
must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination
in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and,
if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may
encounter from their condition.
2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them
their inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and
sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.
https://www.catholichawaii.org/media/224236/homosexuality_ _from_catechism_of_the_catholic_church.pdf



Maybe so. Sounds right, but I don't have any data.

Yup! Celibacy is preferable

 

[The Barbarian]

Yup! Celibacy is preferable

In fact, a celibate homosexual is as praiseworthy as a celibate unmarried heterosexual.

 

[RileyG]

In fact, a celibate homosexual is as praiseworthy as a celibate unmarried heterosexual.

more praiseworthy, if anything IMHO

 

[Bodhiboy]

There are some of that persuasion who adamantly maintain that conversion from homosexuality to heterosexuality is impossible because they are born that way.

They are born that way.

 

[Der Alte]

They are born that way.

Are you familiar with the term "grooming?'

 

[The Barbarian]

Are you familiar with the term "grooming?'

I know of people who are...

 

[Der Alte]

I know of people who are...

Pictures don't impress me. Being able to form a cogent argument, supported by evidence, impresses me.

 

[The Barbarian]

Pictures don't impress me.

The number of right-wing groomers should impress you, though. There's a reason for it.

Being able to form a cogent argument, supported by evidence, impresses me.

This seems to be your idea of a cogent argument:

Are you familiar with the term "grooming?'

So I'm thinking that's the problem, here.