On Trump and 'disinfectants'

[SLP]

Not too long ago, Trump suggested that we are or should "look into" the use of disinfectants used for treating surfaces (the specific ones referenced prior to Trump''s remarks were UV light, bleach, and isopropyl alcohol) to combat Covid-19 in vivo.
Such a suggestion was idiotic, especially for a 'stable genius', who should have understood that there are things that work outside the body but that are bad for you inside the body.
The Intertubes were ablaze with sycophants and cultists defending his 'insight' and intelligence, and ridiculing those who pointed out the obvious. Afterall, they found some silliness about "ozone therapy" and the morons that think drinking bleach (via MMS) cures everything, so there, libs!

First question - as a Trump supporter, did you defend him on this issue? Were you one of the multitude that shared articles from quacks re: ozone therapy to 'own the libs'?

A relative of mine did just this - linked to a quack site that indicated ozone therapy was totally beneficial* and was undergoing clinical trials, so take that, lib!

Couple of problems:
1. Ozone therapy was not mentioned in the press conference.
2. The people advocating its use are quacks and naturopaths and chiropractors and 'traditional medicine'-types, who are apparently amazingly ignorant on the subject.
3. The source my relative used to bolster the claim misinterpreted the clinical trials - these were not testing ozone therapy as a treatment for anything, they were using ozone to induce inflammation in test subjects who were then treated with - GASP! - Big Pharma drugs!
Oh - and the same site that this presumed pro-ozone therapy thing also had an article about how horrible ozone is...

Did I mention the timing of this discovery?

This exchange between this relative of mine and myself was more than a week after Trump's gaffe.

Which means that my relative was defending Trump AFTER he had claimed that he was just being sarcastic (which he clearly wasn't).

Second question - Did you continue to defend Trump's UV light/isopropanol/bleach gaffe AFTER he had claimed he was just being sarcastic?

Because if you did, you are a cult member.


*this was hardly an isolated thing - the relative had also linked to a site stating, matter of factly, that Trump was right and went on to mention ozone therapy and 'UV light injections' and the like (no references, of course). I found references to that site on a dozen Facebook pages, and after googling a couple sentences from it, I found that it was all over the place...)

 

[essentialsaltes]

LINK

The CDC released data on Friday from a survey commissioned to understand why more people have been calling poison control centers during the coronavirus pandemic.

What they found: Roughly 200 adults who responded to the survey in May said they intentionally inhaled disinfectants, washed food with bleach, or applied household cleaning products to bare skin to combat the virus — all of which are dangerous.

 

[Brightmoon]

. This is what science illiteracy looks like folks

 

[morse86]

Before we discuss disinfects, let's discuss the average person being able to READ the science, this guy has READ and tested the science:

There are two forms of science: junk science backed up by $$$$ university degree 250k debt and real science.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Before we discuss disinfects, let's discuss the average person being able to READ the science, this guy has READ and tested the science:


There are two forms of science: junk science backed up by $$$$ university degree 250k debt and real science.

I don't know why you posted a video of the President of Tanzania. Someone who has been accused of covering up the pandemic in his country. Are you trying to find some national leader who says dumber things about COVID-19 than Trump's spitballing about disinfectants. If not, I can't think of a purpose.

Then you make some condescending statement about science from professionals.

Finally, what makes you think an advanced degree puts one into debt. I left grad school with *more* money than when I started, and that was just from living frugally while working as a TA/RA and doing my research. (No unrelated incomes like inheritance or a side job.)

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

There are two forms of science: junk science backed up by $$$$ university degree 250k debt and real science.

Not sure what the point is here - is it complaining that WHO updates its advice in changing circumstances to reflect the best available evidence?

 

[Strathos]

Not sure what the point is here - is it complaining that WHO updates its advice in changing circumstances to reflect the best available evidence?

He's complaining that we don't just cure the virus by pushing it off the edge of the flat earth.

 

[Ophiolite]

Not sure what the point is here - is it complaining that WHO updates its advice in changing circumstances to reflect the best available evidence?

I think he is demonstrating that, though he knows nothing of science himself, he does know - or knows someone who knows - how to make colourful tables in Excel. (Of course that use of a Bill Gates product just gives us an insight into how deep the virus conspiracy of the Illuminati goes!)/wry frustration.

 

[morse86]

This is how ridiculous it is:

Covid-19 expert Karl Friston: 'Germany may have more immunological “dark matter”'


I mean they even tell you the agenda last year:

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

This is how ridiculous it is:

Covid-19 expert Karl Friston: 'Germany may have more immunological “dark matter”'

I mean they even tell you the agenda last year:

Can you follow the forum guidelines and explain what the videos are about, or maybe explain what point you feel they are making?

For example, what is ridiculous and why? What is 'the agenda' and why is it relevant or important?

 

[istodolez]

There are two forms of science: junk science backed up by $$$$ university degree 250k debt and real science.

...and you know the difference how?

 

[Hans Blaster]

...and you know the difference how?

He doesn't. He's just an anti-knowledge agitator.

 

[Arc F1]

Not too long ago, Trump suggested that we are or should "look into" the use of disinfectants used for treating surfaces (the specific ones referenced prior to Trump''s remarks were UV light, bleach, and isopropyl alcohol) to combat Covid-19 in vivo.
Such a suggestion was idiotic, especially for a 'stable genius', who should have understood that there are things that work outside the body but that are bad for you inside the body.
The Intertubes were ablaze with sycophants and cultists defending his 'insight' and intelligence, and ridiculing those who pointed out the obvious. Afterall, they found some silliness about "ozone therapy" and the morons that think drinking bleach (via MMS) cures everything, so there, libs!

First question - as a Trump supporter, did you defend him on this issue? Were you one of the multitude that shared articles from quacks re: ozone therapy to 'own the libs'?

A relative of mine did just this - linked to a quack site that indicated ozone therapy was totally beneficial* and was undergoing clinical trials, so take that, lib!

Couple of problems:
1. Ozone therapy was not mentioned in the press conference.
2. The people advocating its use are quacks and naturopaths and chiropractors and 'traditional medicine'-types, who are apparently amazingly ignorant on the subject.
3. The source my relative used to bolster the claim misinterpreted the clinical trials - these were not testing ozone therapy as a treatment for anything, they were using ozone to induce inflammation in test subjects who were then treated with - GASP! - Big Pharma drugs!
Oh - and the same site that this presumed pro-ozone therapy thing also had an article about how horrible ozone is...

Did I mention the timing of this discovery?

This exchange between this relative of mine and myself was more than a week after Trump's gaffe.

Which means that my relative was defending Trump AFTER he had claimed that he was just being sarcastic (which he clearly wasn't).

Second question - Did you continue to defend Trump's UV light/isopropanol/bleach gaffe AFTER he had claimed he was just being sarcastic?

Because if you did, you are a cult member.


*this was hardly an isolated thing - the relative had also linked to a site stating, matter of factly, that Trump was right and went on to mention ozone therapy and 'UV light injections' and the like (no references, of course). I found references to that site on a dozen Facebook pages, and after googling a couple sentences from it, I found that it was all over the place...)

One tsp of bleach per gallon of water. That might come in handy one day.

 

[istodolez]

One tsp of bleach per gallon of water. That might come in handy one day.

One thing you learn as a scientist is that there are some things you use to clean surfaces that aren't necessarily friendly to your health. Back when I started as a chemist eons ago we used to use some pretty nasty chromium-based glassware cleaners that I would never want anywhere near inside my body.

 

[Arc F1]

One thing you learn as a scientist is that there are some things you use to clean surfaces that aren't necessarily friendly to your health. Back when I started as a chemist eons ago we used to use some pretty nasty chromium-based glassware cleaners that I would never want anywhere near inside my body.

I drank bleach water in the military for years. What doesn't kill you only makes you stronger.

Most people would have just said they were way over their head trying to explain whatever it was Trump was trying to convey but that's not his style. He just doubled down. We all have our faults.

 

[istodolez]

I drank bleach water in the military for years. What doesn't kill you only makes you stronger.

that's a thing?

Most people would have just said they were way over their head trying to explain whatever it was Trump was trying to convey but that's not his style. He just doubled down. We all have our faults.

Agreed. But when one sits in the most powerful seat on the planet earth and has the ability to get his message out to all people everywhere in real time that person has an extra requirement of not doubling down on misstatements.

If Trump is unwilling or unable to meet that little extra requirement then he should do the right thing and step away from the position. It would be like putting me in charge of the Fortune 50 company I work for. I would be an unmitigated disaster for the company. And I doubt very highly anyone would simply shrug and say "Oh well, he's got his faults, lol!"

 

[Tinker Grey]

that's a thing?

I would imagine that it is a simple solution for to purify drinking water in a country with poor sanitation. Of course, it wouldn't do anything for viruses or for healing you of anything. It'd be just for killing bad stuff in the water.

 

[istodolez]

I would imagine that it is a simple solution for to purify drinking water in a country with poor sanitation. Of course, it wouldn't do anything for viruses or for healing you of anything. It'd be just for killing bad stuff in the water.

Ahh, OK. Thanks.

 

[Hans Blaster]

What doesn't kill you only makes you stronger.

This is not generally true. This aphorism seems to be mostly about encouraging people to work hard through things that take effort and to not be bothered by (non-lethal) discomfort in obtaining a goal. It has some literal effect in weightlifting as tiny stresses and injuries to the muscles during effort cause the repair to build stronger.

But there are other things that don't kill you (and come far closer to killing you than a hard workout or a mild bleach solution) that definitely not only don't make you stronger, but rather make you weaker. For example, a non-lethal heart attack or stroke. Each of these will leave significant damage to the heart that weakens it or to the brain that lowers its capacity. Over long periods of time, these losses can be partially recovered, but one does not get stronger from non-fatal strokes or heart attacks.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

This is not generally true. This aphorism seems to be mostly about encouraging people to work hard through things that take effort and to not be bothered by (non-lethal) discomfort in obtaining a goal. It has some literal effect in weightlifting as tiny stresses and injuries to the muscles during effort cause the repair to build stronger.

But there are other things that don't kill you (and come far closer to killing you than a hard workout or a mild bleach solution) that definitely not only don't make you stronger, but rather make you weaker. For example, a non-lethal heart attack or stroke. Each of these will leave significant damage to the heart that weakens it or to the brain that lowers its capacity. Over long periods of time, these losses can be partially recovered, but one does not get stronger from non-fatal strokes or heart attacks.

Indeed, not to mention all the non-lethal diseases that have permanently weakening and debilitating effects.