On This Rock I Will Build My Church

[Presbyterian Continuist]

When Jesus spoke the words to Peter, he was not referring to an institution. He was referring to the corporate group of people who will turn to Him and trust in Him to be their Saviour.

God doesn't care about church institutions. There will come the day, when Jesus comes again, that church institutions, such as Roman Catholic, Anglican, Baptist, Presbyterian, Methodist, etc., will disappear, and only individuals converted and unconverted will be standing before the throne of God at the judgment.

A person could stand before God and say, "I am Presbyterian (or any other denominational label)" and God will answer, "So what? Means nothing to Me". It is sad for the many who put their trust in a church, saying "our church is the true one because it started with Peter and has continued through Apostolic succession through the centuries", because God's attitude is, "Who cares? I don't." The fact that man's denominations with their ceremonies, rituals, ornate church buildings, statues of Jesus and Mary, priest vestments, cardinals, popes, archbishops, and all the other paraphernalia is nothing as far as God is concerned. Jesus said that the true worshipers will worship God in Spirit and in truth, and all that is added to it is nothing but tacky ornamentation and froth and bubble.

Man looks on the outward appearance, but God looks on the heart. All He is concerned about is, what is a person's attitude to Christ and what He did for them on the Cross of Calvary?

There is no such thing as the perfect church institution. There will come the day when the Bride of Christ will be made up of multitudes of those who have put their trust in Christ, made perfect.

 

[d taylor]

I believe the rock is faith, that Jesus is The promised Messiah and builds His church on this understanding and believing this truth. The rock is believing that Jesus is The Christ, the Son of the living God

He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?”
Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.

 

[timothyu]

I believe the rock is faith,

As it says.. the rock is “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven." The rock/foundation is that truth only comes from God and not from man. Funny how some try to make the foundation a man contrary to what Jesus said,.

 

[GDL]

When Jesus spoke the words to Peter, he was not referring to an institution. He was referring to the corporate group of people who will turn to Him and trust in Him to be their Saviour.

Christ is the cornerstone/rock of the foundation. This ties back to Isaiah 28:16, which is quoted by Peter and by Paul. His Apostles are the next stones laid from the cornerstone to complete the perfect & true foundation.

Paul says in 1 Corinthians 3 that Jesus = Christ is the only foundation that can be built upon. All else is sand.

Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God is the foundation - the rock - that He is building His Ekklesia upon. This truth is the foundation - the only foundation - of the Good News, according to Paul. This is why 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 is not the Good News - but an important part of the Good News, because of Paul's argument there about the vital importance of the resurrection. If no resurrection, Jesus is not the Christ and our faith is worthless. John says one of the signs per his writing about Christ's teachings is that the resurrection proves Jesus is the Christ. Matthew also speaks of the death and resurrection of Jesus in this same section about the Rock. Jesus is the [resurrected] Christ - the Son of the Living God = the Foundation.

It's not just turning to Jesus as Savior. It's turning from self and all others as ultimate authority to accept Jesus for who He truly is - YHWH's Annointed/Messiah/Christ - the One with all authority in Heaven and on earth = the Ruler of Creation - the One with the highest name & to whom all knees shall bow - and live by this fact.

The Gates of Hades not prevailing against this truth means that even death and all associated with it cannot win against it, nor Him, nor His.

 

[DragonFox91]

I agree ‘the rock’ isn’t supposed to be Peter himself, it is the faithful in general, there is no such thing as perfect denomination or institution, or which one you belonged to God will judge you solely. I do disagree w/ your premise God doesn’t care about churches. They are very powerful & do a lot in his name for his glory by his glory.

 

[timothyu]

They are very powerful & do a lot in his name for his glory by his glory.

The only thing they need do is (as in the time of The Way) carry forward God's teachings (now in scripture) and of course plant seeds, not determine how they shall grow.

 

[concretecamper]

A person could stand before God and say, "I am Presbyterian (or any other denominational label)" and God will answer, "So what? Means nothing to Me". It is sad for the many who put their trust in a church, saying "our church is the true one because it started with Peter and has continued through Apostolic succession through the centuries", because God's attitude is, "Who cares? I don't."

Christ endured a horrible passion and death for His Church, the One He started with Peter as the visible head. And you say "so what". Good luck with that.

 

[timothyu]

Christ endured a horrible passion and death for His Church, the One He started with Peter as the visible head. And you say "so what"

The point is He did not start yet another worldly intuition modelled on the institutions of power that went before. He did just the opposite.

 

[concretecamper]

The point is He did not start yet another worldly intuition modelled on the institutions of power that went before

precisely, I wouldn't expect Christ to start a worldly institution.

The Church He established is Super Natural because He promised the Apostles (the first Bishops of the Church) the Holy Spirit. He also promised them that He would be with them always until the "end of the age". The Holy Spirit has been continually guiding His Church. That is why it cannot teach error. His Church is far from a worldly institution.

 

[timothyu]

His Church is far from a worldly institution.

Presuming you mean it is the people and not another government of man.

 

[concretecamper]

Presuming you mean it is the people and not another government of man.

I mean the Church Christ started.

Scripture is clear that Christ started a Church that is One, Visible, and Authoritative. I'm not sure what you mean as "it is the people".

 

[Eloy Craft]

When Jesus spoke the words to Peter, he was not referring to an institution

He wasn't? Must have been a happy accident because you wouldn't have ever heard of Jesus if there wasn't a place to point to and say. " There is the Church'. What do you think it means to be founded on rock?

 

[timothyu]

I mean the Church Christ started.

Which was by the people for the people (originally called the Way - a way of life putting the will of God ahead of the will of man, thus caring for all as we would hope they would care for us, rather than of ritualized government), not another assembly of clean on the outside, corrupt on the inside governance. Of course that failed in the same way the concept failed in the US where it is now by the institutions/corporations for the institutions/corporations with it's own rules and regulations for the people to follow. See how man corrupts everything good? Secular, religion - Man as a whole cannot help but fall to the wayside and back into the world. It is only people as individuals living a way of life that Jesus taught that may stay on the narrow path of the Kingdom of God rather than the kingdoms of man, free of the influence of the ways of man. But you are right. The Church Institution did serve a purpose when the Jews were scattered in insuring scripture would be forwarded through time in the hands of the Intuitions, his teachings in scripture being the true power, not the Institution. God has no problem using the adversarial spirit of man for His own purposes.

 

[concretecamper]

Which was by the people

unscriptural. Christ said "I" will build "My" Church.

for the people

agreed

not another assembly of clean on the outside, corrupt on the inside governan

Since Christ is active in His Church, we as imperfect people unite our sacrifices to His. In this way, they become acceptable to the Father.

Of course that failed in the same way the concept failed in the US where it is now by the institutions/corporations for the institutions/corporations with it's own rules and regulations

Why wouldn't you expect His Church to set down guiderails to keep Her members on the narrow path.

It is only people as individuals living a way of life that Jesus taught that may stay on the narrow path of the Kingdom of God rather than the kingdoms of man, free of the influence of the ways of man

There will always be influence of man. Your thinking is influenced by the way YOU interpret scripture. You are a man.

The Church Institution did serve a purpose when the Jews were scattered in insuring scripture would be forwarded trough time in the hands of the Intuitions, his teachings in scripture being the true power, not the Institution. God has no problem using the adversarial spirit of man for His own purposes.

The Church is The Body of Christ. If the Church fails, Christ fails. That is not gonna happen.

 

[timothyu]

unscriptural.

Not so. As stated they lived a way of life in accordance with the will of God, caring for each other as they would expect to be cared for. Not following the rules of some un-authoritative government/institution.
Matthew 22:
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Why wouldn't you expect His Church to set down guiderails to keep Her members on the narrow path.

Because even as we see today and in these forums, the people were expected to defend the Institution before the Kingdom. Some even demanded allegiance to their leader.

There will always be influence of man. Your thinking is influenced by the way YOU interpret scripture. You are a man.

Sorry but I follow the Gospel of the Kingdom, not the fleshy rituals and doctrines of man.

 

[concretecamper]

Not so. As stated they lived a way of life in accordance with the will of God, caring for each other as they would expect to be cared for. Not following the rules of some un-authoritative government/institution.
Matthew 22:
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

this has nothing to do in the manner in which Christ started His Church.

Because even as we see today and in these forums, the people were expected to defend the Institution before the Kingdom. Some even demanded allegiance to their leader.

Christ and His Church are One. Defending His Church is defending Christ.

Sorry but I follow the Gospel of the Kingdom, not the fleshy rituals and doctrines of man.

as defined by YOU, a man.

 

[timothyu]

The Church is The Body of Christ. If the Church fails, Christ fails. That is not gonna happen.

The Church being the people in their daily lives follows the will of God, not yet another government of man. His Kingdom (governance) come, His will be done in earth (not man's).

 

[concretecamper]

The Church being the people in their daily lives follows the will of God, not yet another government of man. His Kingdom (governance) come, His will be done in earth (not man's).

of course we are to follow His commandments. This again has nothing to do with Him starting or having a Church.

 

[timothyu]

this has nothing to do in the manner in which Christ started His Church.

It has everything to do with His teachings which was the Gospel of the Kingdom, the only gospel.

Christ and His Church are One. Defending His Church is defending Christ.

Again that church would be the people putting God's will ahead of their own which is loving all as self (caring for each other) rather than complying with the self serving ways of man which form governments and institutions as a mean of control and power.

as defined by YOU, a man.

As I said, His Kingdom come, His will be done in earth as it is in heaven.

 

[timothyu]

again, unscriptural.

Ok, if the Lord's Prayer which clearly defines the Gospel of the Kingdom is unscriptural in your eyes.