On the sinfulness of the LGBT path.

[Galdrun]

There are many Christians who see the LGBT lifestyle as a natural aspect of life, and many who see it as a sin. Do you view it as sinful? Are there any reasons outside of the bible why you would view it as inherently a bad or good (or neutral) thing? Thanks!

 

[Monk Brendan]

There are many Christians who see the LGBT lifestyle as a natural aspect of life, and many who see it as a sin. Do you view it as sinful? Are there any reasons outside of the bible why you would view it as inherently a bad or good (or neutral) thing? Thanks!

There is no such thing as the LGBT lifestyle.

Not all such people live the same way, any more than all heterosexual people do.

 

[Galdrun]

There is no such thing as the LGBT lifestyle.

Not all such people live the same way, any more than all heterosexual people do.

Actually, I do have to agree with you there.

Last year my girlfriend came out to me as lesbian. She wants to be in a relationship with me, as we both feel we are soul mates, even though she doesn't feel any physical attraction for me (or any man). It was a bit of a shock for me at first, but she knows that I love her no matter what, and vice versa.

Ultimately, are acting on homosexual desires sinful, though (even assuming this homosexual couple were married)? If so, what outside of the bible would lead one to believe that it is inherently a bad thing?

 

[zephcom]

There are many Christians who see the LGBT lifestyle as a natural aspect of life, and many who see it as a sin. Do you view it as sinful? Are there any reasons outside of the bible why you would view it as inherently a bad or good (or neutral) thing? Thanks!

Nope. I don't 'see' it as sinful.

Outside the Bible, it is simply an aspect of nature.

 

[Lost4words]

Too me, its sordid.

 

[Desk trauma]

IB4TL.

 

[zephcom]

Actually, I do have to agree with you there.

Last year my girlfriend came out to me as lesbian. She wants to be in a relationship with me, as we both feel we are soul mates, even though she doesn't feel any physical attraction for me (or any man). It was a bit of a shock for me at first, but she knows that I love her no matter what, and vice versa.

Ultimately, are acting on homosexual desires sinful, though (even assuming this homosexual couple were married)? If so, what outside of the bible would lead one to believe that it is inherently a bad thing?

I don't think it matters what others think about it. The only thing that matters is whether the two of you are happy with the arrangement and can live a good life with the arrangement.

 

[ananda]

There are many Christians who see the LGBT lifestyle as a natural aspect of life, and many who see it as a sin. Do you view it as sinful? Are there any reasons outside of the bible why you would view it as inherently a bad or good (or neutral) thing? Thanks!

There's no sin in Buddhism.

There are relative states of skillfulness and unskillfullness on a spectrum, however - like the spectrum of temperature.

So, from a Buddhist perspective: the LGBT lifestyle, relatively speaking, can be just as unskillful as heterosexual lifestyles, as both involve varying forms of greed and sensual attachment to something impermanent.

 

[Galdrun]

Too me, its sordid.

Would you care to unpack that for me?

 

[Galdrun]

There's no sin in Buddhism.

There are relative states of skillfulness and unskillfullness on a spectrum, however - like the spectrum of temperature.

So, from a Buddhist perspective: the LGBT lifestyle, relatively speaking, can be just as unskillful as heterosexual lifestyles, as both involve varying forms of greed and sensual attachment to something impermanent.

Interesting. Are relationships unskillful by their very nature? Is celibacy a better path?

 

[Hazelelponi]

Homosexuality is deviant. We arent other species we are human, so comparison with other species is not helpful.

Biologically humans are male and female and a pairing of the two sexes is what naturally propagates the species and pairing of the sexes in this manner has always been the norm throughout society - our natural inclination

Homosexuality has always been deviant - outside the normal or in the minority - even in absence of religion. Different societies have dealt with this deviance in different manners, some more accepting others more resistant to this group on the outside fringe who don't follow biological norms.

Religiously speaking its open sin.. while God allows them to choose it for themselves the Bible is clear it's sin. If someone is saved they can overcome this sin, and there are people and testimonials of people who have. The Bible also teaches that homosexuality like any other sin can be repented of, overcome and forgiven.

How you deal with it is your choice, but if your a normal male then I would walk away from anyone trying to suggest a sexless relationship for life.

 

[Jon Osterman]

I would be sinful for me to engage in homosexual acts. I don't know about others and I think that is probably between them and God. However, I know that Jesus commands me to treat them with love, no matter what they get up to in the bedroom.

 

[ananda]

Interesting. Are relationships unskillful by their very nature? Is celibacy a better path?

From a Buddhist perspective: Relationships can be relatively unskillful for a more enlightened individual if those relationships hinder that individual's path towards even greater enlightenment. Yet those exact same relationships can also be considered relatively skillful for less enlightened individuals as long as those relationships help them towards greater enlightenment.

For example: I have a spouse, and we grow and learn together. I consider it to be a very skillful relationship, as it has been helpful for both of our growth and mental/spiritual freedom. I don't see that ending any time soon. However, due to the nature of impermanence in reality, I acknowledge that there may come a point in time when we can grow no further together, but must explore reality and continue to grow in our own separate ways. At that time, it would be unskillful to stay together just for the sake of staying together, especially if doing so actually leads us to decline instead of growth.

 

[Galdrun]

Homosexuality is deviant. We arent other species we are human, so comparison with other species is not helpful.

Biologically humans are male and female and a pairing of the two sexes is what naturally propagates the species and pairing of the sexes in this manner has always been the norm throughout society - our natural inclination

Homosexuality has always been deviant - outside the normal or in the minority - even in absence of religion. Different societies have dealt with this deviance in different manners, some more accepting others more resistant to this group on the outside fringe who don't follow biological norms.

Religiously speaking its open sin.. while God allows them to choose it for themselves the Bible is clear it's sin. If someone is saved they can overcome this sin, and there are people and testimonials of people who have. The Bible also teaches that homosexuality like any other sin can be repented of, overcome and forgiven.

How you deal with it is your choice, but if your a normal male then I would walk away from anyone trying to suggest a sexless relationship for life.

Hmmm... I have to disagree. Life is full of sacrifice, IMO. If your significant other was in a car accident and was unable to have sex with you anymore, would you walk away from her?

 

[Hazelelponi]

Hmmm... I have to disagree. Life is full of sacrifice, IMO. If your significant other was in a car accident and was unable to have sex with you anymore, would you walk away from her?

There is a difference between your -'significant other' being in open sin and asking you to live a sexless life, and someone who was injured..

Your not even married to this woman, that's not very significant.

 

[jayem]

Sexual attraction to someone of the same sex is morally neutral. As is sexual activity with a person of the same sex, providing that activity is safe and consensual. (And all parties are of age and are capable of giving consent.) I'd also add that no party should be dishonest, deceitful, or break a promise of fidelity to another sexual partner.) The moral calculus is exactly the same as it would be in the case of opposite sex persons.

 

[Galdrun]

From a Buddhist perspective: Relationships can be relatively unskillful for a more enlightened individual if those relationships hinder that individual's path towards even greater enlightenment. Yet those exact same relationships can also be considered relatively skillful for less enlightened individuals as long as those relationships help them towards greater enlightenment.

For example: I have a spouse, and we grow and learn together. I consider it to be a very skillful relationship, as it has been helpful for both of our growth and mental/spiritual freedom. I don't see that ending any time soon. However, due to the nature of impermanence in reality, I acknowledge that there may come a point in time when we can grow no further together, but must explore reality and continue to grow in our own separate ways. At that time, it would be unskillful to stay together just for the sake of staying together, especially if doing so actually leads us to decline instead of growth.

Hmmm. That's a different perspective. I feel like relationships offer more than just personal/emotional growth, though. Because of my girlfriend, I've become very close with her family. They are now very much my family. her friends have become my friends as well (and vice versa). Our finances are shared and we wisely manage our money together, so we never have financial issues.

I feel a couple that compliments each other well keeps each other on a good path, IMO, and keep eachother strong. That's been my experience, at least. =)

 

[Galdrun]

There is a difference between your -'significant other' being in open sin and asking you to live a sexless life, and someone who was injured..

Your not even married to this woman, that's not very significant.

With all due respect, what open sin is she living in? She's faithful to me. Is it her fault that she's attracted to women?

The thing someone who is injured and someone who is homosexual have in common is that it's something that is entirely out of their control. They can't really help their circumstances, can they?

As for the significance of my relationship, your opinion has been duly noted and discarded.

 

[Hazelelponi]

With all due respect, what open sin is she living in? She's faithful to me. Is it her fault that she's attracted to women?

The thing someone who is injured and someone who is homosexual have in common is that it's something that is entirely out of their control. They can't really help their circumstances, can they?

As for the significance of my relationship, your opinion has been duly noted and discarded.

Then what on earth are you posting here for?

If you want to live with a homosexuality without sex to the day you die then go ahead.

I'm just saying you may very well live to regret that one.

 

[ananda]

Hmmm. That's a different perspective. I feel like relationships offer more than just personal/emotional growth, though. Because of my girlfriend, I've become very close with her family. They are now very much my family. her friends have become my friends as well (and vice versa). Our finances are shared and we wisely manage our money together, so we never have financial issues.

I feel a couple that compliments each other well keeps each other on a good path, IMO, and keep eachother strong. That's been my experience, at least. =)

Yes, there seems to exist a mutual benefit, from what you're describing. All parties are reaping skillfulness as a result of the relationship (it's in that sense we distill it down to personal growth).