On the Light that is Darkness

[truefiction1]

This was posted at me on a certain thread.

"So it is so not true that you must resort to the same insubstantial subjective sophistry in the absence of any actual meaningful response to what refutes you, and which presumes the very thing that resulted in my conversion away from Catholicism, but as a consequence of Light, not your distinctives of darkness, would lead me back to it, or a brother of it."

Which is immediately followed by the summary:

"All your unScriptural prayers to created beings in Heaven, unScriptural priesthood and its form of endocannibalism, ritual generational and ostentatious trappings will not overcome the standard of Scripture, no matter how much you imagine your distinctives are in it."

By "endocannibalism" the poster is making a reference to our belief in Christ's presence, (as attested to by Scripture) in the Eucharistic meal, presided over by those appointed by laying of of hands (as indicated to be done in the Bible), and by "ritual generational trappings" he means things like baptisms and such (taught to be performed in the Bible).

Am I not seeing Scripture with this same "light" that led this poster to reject Holy Tradition as unscriptural? Is it possible that their is a certain kind of "light" that deceives, such as that spoken of here: 2 Corinthians 11:14 and here: Matthew 6:23 and here: Luke 11:35 ?

 

[~Anastasia~]

Following. Somebody likes to use big words.

 

[ArmyMatt]

I don't think there is much of anything this person is enlightened with.

 

[~Anastasia~]

I don't think there is much of anything this person is enlightened with.

Vocabulary.





God forgive me ... I'm sarcastic today.



And I went to Confession just two days ago. I knew I should have delayed a bit, lol.

 

[truefiction1]

The equation of the presence of our Lord in the Sacred Communion with endocannibalism struck be as... umm... most unfortunate I guess. Nah... what really happened when I read these words is that I just couldn't believe I was seeing such things being produced from within the mind of anyone touting Scriptural knowledge and claiming to be a follower of Christ. Does it not fill us with a profound spirit of mourning for the state the souls of such as these who trade the glory of God for a glory that leads only to death? Does it not bother us when some, claiming to be followers of our Lord, voice the very lies and fantasies of the evil one, while lying to themselves and everyone else about where the lies are coming from, by citing the authority of Holy Scripture as the basis for the lies?

I had learned a long time ago, when I first began my spiritual quest toward God, how to Love them such as these who attack Holy Tradition by praying for their forgiveness, and then immediately praying also to receive the grace to forgive them also, from my heart, and finally and of the utmost importance, to pray that I be forgiven because I am the greatest and most shameful of sinners. I would have to persist in this prayer because the evil thoughts I was having about those who had attacked Holy Tradition and the hateful and murderous feeling being fueled by those thoughts kept coming. Eventually, the prayer wins, and the Holy Spirit fills the heart with His infinite mercy, peace, and Love. Then the soul mourns for this lost sheep of the Great Shepherd, even as He mourns them, and we have the mind of Christ, along with the Light to know Him, and His Scriptures.

This is one of our Lord's greatest teachings: that we must pray for all of our enemies, and for those who hate us. Words from the Pascal hymn are all I hear today: "Let us call brothers even those who hate us".

 

[~Anastasia~]

The equation of the presence of our Lord in the Sacred Communion with endocannibalism struck be as... umm... most unfortunate I guess. Nah... what really happened when I read these words is that I just couldn't believe I was seeing such things being produced from within the mind of anyone touting Scriptural knowledge and claiming to be a follower of Christ. Does it not fill us with a profound spirit of mourning for the state the souls of such as these who trade the glory of God for a glory that leads only to death? Does it not bother us when some, claiming to be followers of our Lord, voice the very lies and fantasies of the evil one, while lying to themselves and everyone else about where the lies are coming from, by citing the authority of Holy Scripture as the basis for the lies?

I had learned a long time ago, when I first began my spiritual quest toward God, how to Love them such as these who attack Holy Tradition by praying for their forgiveness, and then immediately praying also to receive the grace to forgive them also, from my heart, and finally and of the utmost importance, to pray that I be forgiven because I am the greatest and most shameful of sinners. I would have to persist in this prayer because the evil thoughts I was having about those who had attacked Holy Tradition and the hateful and murderous feeling being fueled by those thoughts kept coming. Eventually, the prayer wins, and the Holy Spirit fills the heart with His infinite mercy, peace, and Love. Then the soul mourns for this lost sheep of the Great Shepherd, even as He mourns them, and we have the mind of Christ, along with the Light to know Him, and His Scriptures.

This is one of our Lord's greatest teachings: that we must pray for all of our enemies, and for those who hate us. Words from the Pascal hymn are all I hear today: "Let us call brothers even those who hate us".

I certainly agree we should pray for them.

I guess I'm not so far into it that I see it as attack yet, even when it is. (Usually ... sometimes they catch me on a bad day.)

But for me it is all to easy to remember when I didn't know the truth, had simply accepted what I'd been taught, and defending it was "being faithful" to me. I think sometimes some people are even so fragile that at that point in time, they may not even be able to pursue truth that is going to upset a lot of what they think they know. God alone knows what a person can bear though.

So yes, I push back sometimes. Hopefully gently. I try to offer the truth and reasons for accepting it. But I try to see them as sincere individuals who are seeking God the best way they know how.


I must say though that when a person becomes pompous about it, it is easy to imagine a wrong spirit fueling them, and my inclination is a little different. But I am not permitted by my SF to address it as it seems to call for, and I'm sure others are FAR more qualified than me to do so anyway.

 

[truefiction1]

I certainly agree we should pray for them.

I guess I'm not so far into it that I see it as attack yet, even when it is. (Usually ... sometimes they catch me on a bad day.)

But for me it is all to easy to remember when I didn't know the truth, had simply accepted what I'd been taught, and defending it was "being faithful" to me. I think sometimes some people are even so fragile that at that point in time, they may not even be able to pursue truth that is going to upset a lot of what they think they know. God alone knows what a person can bear though.

So yes, I push back sometimes. Hopefully gently. I try to offer the truth and reasons for accepting it. But I try to see them as sincere individuals who are seeking God the best way they know how.


I must say though that when a person becomes pompous about it, it is easy to imagine a wrong spirit fueling them, and my inclination is a little different. But I am not permitted by my SF to address it as it seems to call for, and I'm sure others are FAR more qualified than me to do so anyway.

There is a certain fragility to people when it comes to their religion. I had been in that fragile state as a young Orthodox Christian, having been recently assailed by claims that the Church was the "great mystery of the harlot of Babylon" because she had been overtaken by paganism and was teaching poletheism (the Trinity) and all other sorts of evil scorcery, and that those who did not "come out of her" would be destroyed. This message was coming at me from my steady girlfriend and her family. At that time I did not know what the Truth was, so the word "fragile" does not even begin to describe what I was going through. During this time, a certain born again Christian lady noticed I was Orthodox on account of the three bar cross I was wearing as a necklace, and felt obliged to tell me that Orthodox aren't Christian -- "they are idol worshipers because they worship icons and pray to dead saints instead of God."

When besieged by encounters such as these, I went from being fragile to being demonically oppressed. Such is the effect of the activity of demons via heresy upon the spiritually unstable. That is why I call what this particular poster was saying an attack on Holy Tradition. Such attacks are indeed due to demonic devices operating within human souls.

I really do take things much lighter now that I'm old and steady, of course. I believe that we should always do so, to a great extent, and so I value your approach. It's a good one. But that doesn't mean that we don't realize that these convictions that those who have chosen to reject Holy Tradition are not from the evil one. We also know that they have found a voice in certain people because they were spiritually unstable at the time of formation of their core beliefs, so that many of their false convictions were formed on the basis of demonic suggestions that were accepted because of a still very powerful reliance on sinful passion (i.e. pride/conceit/self-love). For this reason, we do what we can to help them poke holes in what has become their veil of darkness, so that some of God's light might begin to show through. For some this is still possible.

 

[gzt]

Yeah, when confronted by something like that, my usual response is

Somebody coming at you like that isn't in a place where they are capable of reasonable dialogue with you at this moment. If you think you have a gentle word that can get through to them, go for it. Otherwise, there's not much point.

Anyway, I agree the 2 Cor 11 verse is the one that immediately comes to mind.
All that is gold does not glitter...

 

[buzuxi02]

Is he a member of the salvation Army? They usually reject all sacraments.

But atleast you now know why scripture alone is insufficient. Not that they even possess a complete set of scriptures or a correct translation of said. Then they misinterpret them to boot.

 

[Light of the East]

Seems to me that we have another person who is filled with a poor self-image and therefore has a terrible need to impress people with his lexicographical precision.

Oh wait!

Did I just say that????