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On his own, man is totally unable to believe in the gospel

Discussion in 'Salvation (Soteriology)' started by BCsenior, Feb 11, 2019.

  1. BCsenior

    BCsenior Still an evangelist

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    Man is …
    • a spiritual idiot …
    just consider the historical variety of religions, cults, sects, etc.

    • spiritually blind and deaf …
    Matthew 13:13-15, John 12:39-40,
    Ephesians 4:18

    • unable to understand the things of God
    (they are foolishness to him) …
    1 Corinthians 2:14

    • sees the gospel as utter foolishness …
    1 Corinthians 1:18

    • unable to believe the truth of the gospel
    because it is veiled …
    2 Corinthians 3:14-16, 2 Corinthians 4:3


    Man is …

    • blinded by Satan …
    Acts 26:18, 2 Corinthians 4:3-4

    • controlled (ruled) by Satan …
    John 12:31, 1 John 5:19, Acts 26:18,
    Ephesians 2:2

    • deceived by Satan …
    Revelation 12:9, John 8:44, 2 Corinthians 11:14

    • a captive of Satan (unto death) …
    Hebrews 2:14-15, Luke 4:18, 2 Timothy 2:26, Ephesians 4:8


    Man is …

    • unable to be saved by his own desire or works …
    Romans 9:16, Ephesians 2:8-9

    • only able to be saved by the grace and
    mercy of God …
    Ephesians 2:8-9, Titus 3:4-7

    • not allowed to choose; God chooses only whomever He pleases …
    Romans 9:9-24


    Man is …

    • born with an inherited sin nature …
    requires a separate thread to list the many verses!

    • spiritually dead in his sins …
    Ephesians 2:1-5, Colossians 2:13, Romans 4:17, 1 Corinthians 1:9-10, 1 Peter 4:6, Revelation 3:1

    • a captive to the law of sin and death …
    Romans 8:2, Romans 8:6

    • a slave of sin …
    John 8:34, Romans 6:12-22, Galatians 4:7

    • an enemy of God … Romans 8:7
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2019
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  2. Pethesedzao

    Pethesedzao Well-Known Member

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    In sin did my mother conceive me...
     
  3. ilovejcsog

    ilovejcsog The way....

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    On his own, what do you mean by that?
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
  4. BCsenior

    BCsenior Still an evangelist

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    With his own efforts it is absolutely impossible.
    God must intervene with a seed of faith, or ...?
     
  5. ilovejcsog

    ilovejcsog The way....

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    "not allowed to choose; God chooses only whomever He pleases …
    Romans 9:9-24"
    Why bother trying then?

    There are rules we are supposed to live by in the word. Why follow any of them if we have no say so in our outcome? Why are there things we should live by in the bible if they aren't for the sinner?
    WHO ARE THEY FOR?
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
  6. Maria Billingsley

    Maria Billingsley Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I DISAGREE.
     
  7. BCsenior

    BCsenior Still an evangelist

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    Don't you understand that all spiritual Truth of any
    depth at all must be revealed to a person by God?

    For example ... 1 Corinthians 2:14
    "But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."

    "Spiritually discerned" means revealed through the Spirit
    to man's spirit (man).

    Multitudes of different religions, cults, sects, etc.,
    which have vastly different spiritual beliefs,
    just proves that man cannot find spiritual Truth
    through his own thinking, methods, etc.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
  8. Maria Billingsley

    Maria Billingsley Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I do understand. I just don't believe we are so pathetic that God created man and it was a mistake. I am not a Calvinist. Your OP sounds like TULIP.
    Blessings
     
  9. BCsenior

    BCsenior Still an evangelist

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    Aaaaah, you don't believe in the fall of man in Genesis.
    Do you think David was crazy when he said,
    "In sin my mother conceived me ...", etc. etc.

    Our sinful nature disastrous condition

    was why the Word came to earth,
    and became a man, our Savior!, etc. etc.
     
  10. Maria Billingsley

    Maria Billingsley Well-Known Member Supporter

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    We do not know what David means by this statement. There are however some clues to his insecurity which includes this statement that he never felt part of the family. There is more detail in the Talmud if that is any help. I do know it has nothing to do with the first sin by Adam.
     
  11. BCsenior

    BCsenior Still an evangelist

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    The whole entire NT is about the Word (God)
    coming from heaven to free us from our sins,
    i.e. to make it so we could be free from
    being slaves from sin, having to sin, etc.

    because of our inherited sinful nature.
    Jesus came to teach us a great many things,
    but IMO, the blue is the #1 reason why He came!
    Because no one gets into heaven who has not
    overcome his sin nature, i.e. his sins.
    "... without holiness no one will see the Lord"
    (Hebrews 12:14)
    .
     
  12. Maria Billingsley

    Maria Billingsley Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I am not going to get pulled into Calvinism. I understand we are sinners, I understand Jesus came to pay for our sins and I understand it is up to us to accept His payment for our sins by believing in Him. Anymore than that, is man made doctrine.
     
  13. BCsenior

    BCsenior Still an evangelist

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    Well, we are so pathetic!
    Yes, God created man.
    Was it a mistake? ... You tell us.
    Genesis 6:5-7
    "Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And the Lord was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. So the Lord said, “I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth, both man and beast, creeping thing and birds of the air,
    for I am sorry that I have made them.”
     
  14. FreeGrace2

    FreeGrace2 Senior Veteran

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    ilovejcsog said:
    Om his own, what do you mean by that?
    Or what?

    God DID intervene. He sent His Son to pay the sin penalty for everyone. So the choice is up to man. Either believe and accept the free gift of eternal life, or not.

    btw, believing in Christ takes no effort at all. Unless you consider thought to be effort.

    Jesus said His yoke was easy and burden was light. So let's not twist Scripture and claim that man is unable to believe the gospel.

    Only those who haven't developed normal intellectual ability and cannot comprehend anything abstract are those who cannot believe the gospel.

    But they will go to heaven anyway because Christ died for all. He left no one out.

    If you want to go down the TULIP road, I'm more than ready to show that the 'lilt' is off the tulip.
     
  15. BCsenior

    BCsenior Still an evangelist

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    How about getting pulled into the dozens of NT warnings
    about habitual (unrepentant) sinning?
    Believing in Jesus is like entering kindergarden.
    Going beyond this basic step is desperately required!
     
  16. Maria Billingsley

    Maria Billingsley Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I do my best not to make a habit of sinning.
    Blessings
     
  17. FreeGrace2

    FreeGrace2 Senior Veteran

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    Maria Billingsley said:
    I am not going to get pulled into Calvinism. I understand we are sinners, I understand Jesus came to pay for our sins and I understand it is up to us to accept His payment for our sins by believing in Him. Anymore than that, is man made doctrine.
    How about them? What do the warnings warn of?

    I wouldn't equate the kingdom of heaven to kindergarten.

    Of course every believer is commanded to grow up spiritually.

    Would you care to share the steps to this growth? How it's accomplished?

    Thanks.
     
  18. Butch5

    Butch5 Newbie Supporter

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    It's a moot point since Christ gives some level of understanding to everyone.

    7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
    8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
    9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
    (Jn. 1:7-9 KJV)

    That all might believe because Christ gives light to every man coming into the world.
     
  19. Butch5

    Butch5 Newbie Supporter

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    This is a great example of the dangers of proof-texting. Context please!
     
  20. bling

    bling Regular Member Supporter

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    There are warnings against putting our "faith"/trust in idols so all mature adults have the gift of "faith", but must direct that faith toward God. I agree man needs God's help to believe the gospel, but he has to be willing to accept God's help extended to him. The unbelieving sinner has the faith needed to accept God's help (charity/grace/mercy/forgiveness), but most don't want to humbly accept charity.
     
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